Author Topic: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread  (Read 273664 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Calvin

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 66
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2007, 23:05:36 »
I share Tsvangirai's optimism about oncoming change resulting from this latest round of tyranny (for lack of a less charged word).  Arrests: surely unjust but nothing that would warrant more than a blip on the international radar.  The subsequent beatings on the other-hand have done substantial damage to Mugabe's international image.  Finally criticisms are coming from places other than the West. 
 
I've been surprisingly impressed with how the press has managed to keep the issues in the headlines so far, (although it couldn't have been too hard with all of the blunders Mugabe's supporters have committed in relation to this PR fiasco).  My room mates here in the shacks, like it or not, have been getting 'Mugabe Updates' daily.  As manipulative as it sounds I quite enjoyed the emphasis in U.S. news that the rally was a 'prayer meeting'.  I can only speculate what the truth is however I doubt that prayer was the sole intention of the MDC...nonetheless, involving religion will garner support in a strong U.S. demographic with substantial representation in Congress.  Smart smart smart.   

Mugabe still has substantial support in Zimbabwe.  However, will a country tolerate such a dire economic state, (it's pretty bad when the BBC and CNN differ on the inflation by 100 points....but the question is: does it really make a difference when we're arguing between 1600 and 1700 percent?!), combined with such brutality?  The next little while will determine if the opposition movement fizzles once again or gathers steam; I'm hoping for the latter.   

In terms of Aid, I think that it should be increased.  Invest it all in civil society projects that aim to discredit the regime.  Sure, I acknowledge that such a move would be one-sided and subject to accusations of Western meddling...but whatever...in this case I'd be fine with that. 

Offline tingbudong

  • New Member
  • **
  • 50
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 25
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2007, 03:55:02 »
Quote
They need to cut off the sources of aid income that is being funneled into that country as a start

You'd probably have to take on China in order to strangle him financially.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22" - Captain Yossarian

Offline 3rd Herd

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 215
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,446
  • Cave ab homine unius libri
Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #102 on: July 26, 2007, 15:29:44 »
The Usual Disclaimer:
Somali-Canadians joined fight in Horn of Africa: report
Stewart Bell, National Post
Published: Wednesday, July 25, 2007
An al-Qaeda-backed militant group fighting in Somalia is made up partly of Canadians, says a declassified intelligence report that warns while some of the insurgents may be dead, others could attempt to return to Canada.

The report by the government's Integrated Threat Assessment Centre confirms reports that members of Canada's large ethnic Somali community have traveled to the Horn of Africa to join the Taliban-like Council of Islamic Courts.

"Some Somali-Canadians have fought as Islamist extremists in Somalia," says the report, Somali-Canadian Islamic Militants. It is marked "Secret" but was released under the Access to Information Act, although portions were removed for national security reasons
The report says the Canadian government does not know how many Canadians are in Somalia; only 28 have registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs, but the actual number is estimated at somewhere between 1,000 and 5,000.

It does not say how many of those are believed to have joined the Islamic Courts militia headed by Aden Ayro, who was trained in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden's sidekick Ayman Al Zawahiri has been urging his followers to join what he calls the holy war in Somalia...........http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=c5a9dfb7-009b-4196-9cbb-2b2a37fdd3a8&k=0

Comments?



"if he was to be hanged for it, he told his brother, he could not accuse a man whom he believed had meant well, and whose error was one of judgment, not of intention"
Wellington

Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

  • Drawing the crabs from Downunder :) WTF is TWL?
  • Banned
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 28,790
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,224
Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #103 on: July 26, 2007, 17:17:06 »
The Usual Disclaimer:
Somali-Canadians joined fight in Horn of Africa: report
Stewart Bell, National Post
Published: Wednesday, July 25, 2007
An al-Qaeda-backed militant group fighting in Somalia is made up partly of Canadians, says a declassified intelligence report that warns while some of the insurgents may be dead, others could attempt to return to Canada.



Interesting. Glad to see where their loyalities are  ::) .

Are they Canadain or just Somalis living in Canada, putting their faith before citizenship. What a shame and disgrace.

So can they be allowed back in? I would assume so, afterall we are in a PC world, don't wanna offend anyone, even at the cost of having known terrs with bloood on their hands, and they are openly batting for the other side. I would consider them the enemy. As much as this is 2007, and there is a global war against 'the other side', what about Canadian involvment in the Spanish Civil War in the late 1930's? Hummm.

Anyways lets hope that many Somalis who went over for allah had met their fate, and will not return. Less headaches for us in the long run, as who knows what they are capable of once home, and how many youth of their own kind they will and could influence.
"You've never lived until you've almost died; as for our freedom, for those of us who have fought for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know." - Anonymous

Online Blackadder1916

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 235,505
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,329
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #104 on: September 25, 2007, 17:20:12 »
French-speaking Rwanda turns to English
Since an Anglophone rebel movement swept into the country a decade ago, English has quickly gained currency as the language of education and opportunity.

By Scott Baldauf | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor from the September 25, 2007 edition 
Kigali, Rwanda

For decades, Rwanda has been one of nearly 30 Francophone countries in Africa where the language of business, power, and civilization has been French.

Up until recently, the French-speaking elite here saw their ties to Paris as a link to the civilized outside world. Top bureaucrats and scientists would get their university degrees from France's top écoles. Those who returned to Africa would often take up positions in government after having served briefly as functionaries in the French government.

But today, on the sprawling campus of the Kigali Institute of Science and Technology (KIST), a dramatic social change can be seen. Designed in 1997 to be an African version of MIT, KIST is shaping a new generation of scientists, engineers, and technical minds to help Rwanda become the Singapore of Africa. English is their language of instruction.

English? Mon Dieu!

The change came about in 1994. After a brutal 100-day genocide, when Rwanda's then ruling Hutu majority massacred some 800,000 minority Tutsis, an English-speaking Tutsi rebel movement based in Uganda swept into Rwanda, forcing the French-speaking Hutu genocidaires into exile.

Et voilà, Rwanda became Anglophone.

Combined with Rwanda's November 2006 decision to cut relations with France, the transformation of Rwanda into an English-speaking country is already creating political and economic ripples throughout the region.

"France's relations with Rwanda, under former President Jacques Chirac, completely broke down," says Greg Mills, director of the Brenthurst Foundation, a think tank in Johannesburg. Mr. Mills believes that the election of a younger French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, may provide a needed break. "There is a potential under Sarkozy for a change. But it's no good saying there is going to be a change, unless you admit there are things that needed to be changed."

France's current troubles here in Rwanda are an outgrowth of its post-colonial policy of supporting African regimes in return for preferential trade and military relations with France. Under Mr. Chirac, this made regimes less susceptible to coups, but also less responsive to their populations.

"Jacques Chirac was a supporter of Africa, but he relied on an intimacy with leaders and the political class that is not going to be the case with President Sarkozy," says one Western diplomat in the region, speaking privately. Under Sarkozy, France is more likely to use its influence in Africa through multilateral organizations, the diplomat adds.

But there are some aspects of French policy that still roil. The French-created Common African Franc, or CFA, allows 16 African countries to trade with each other and with France on a preferential basis, but economists say it also restricts CFA countries from trading with anyone else.

Since the early 1990s, and particularly after the 1994 Rwandan genocide, many French-speaking Africans have begun to see their relationship with Paris as more burden than boon.

"Not that much has changed since liberation; Africa is still a profitable region in terms of France's commercial trade balance," says Achille Mbembe, history professor from Cameroon, who teaches at Witswatersrand University in Johannesburg, South Africa. "Fifty percent of Africa's uranium still goes to France's nuclear plants. If you go to the markets in Senegal, you'll find no African sodas or juices, only French ones."

In Rwanda, all of that is changing. The Franco-Rwandaise Cultural Society – once the beating heart of all things French in Kigali – has been closed, along with the French international school, the French embassy, and many of the offices of French multinational companies. For language study, Rwandans are turning to a growing industry of English-language academies, and for the plum university posts, they turn to English-language colleges like KIST.

"Officially, the policy of the Rwandan government is bilingualism, both French and English," says Jean-Baptiste Rusine, director of the KIST Language Center. "But there is something psychological at work, too. At the time of monarchy, the language of the court was the language of the people. In these times, the president and his high advisors speak English, so you will feel tempted to write proposals, or to speak more in English than in French."

The real driving force for Rwanda's preference for English is more economic than political, says Chrysologue Karangwa, who, as rector of KIST, oversees all departments. With a fast-growing number of foreign investors (most from anglophone countries) coming to Rwanda, and with Rwanda joining the East African Community trade bloc, Rwanda can benefit from closer ties with its English-speaking neighbors while maintaining ties with French-speaking ones like Burundi and Congo.

At the same time, Mr. Karangwa says that Rwanda will need to hear a more apologetic tone from France before it restores relations. "What we want is for France to accept that at a certain period and at a certain extent, the French government played a role in the genocide," he says.

The signs of a new Anglophone Rwanda are subtle. Billboard advertisements often print their slogans in English first, then in French. But menus certainly haven't changed "pommes-frites" into "freedom fries."

Muyunyi Nicholas, an engineering student at KIST, grew up speaking French, but has switched to English.

"English will be an advantage for us, as we are joining the East African Convention," he says, referring to a trade bloc of English-speaking countries such as Uganda, Tanzania, Kenya, and others. "If we are going to be doing business with those countries, we need to be using their language."

Jessica Karera, another civil engineering student at KIST, also prefers English to French. "Mostly, it's for economic reasons," she says. "After 1994, Rwandans could see that the countries colonized by England had achieved much, much more." She does hope that Rwanda will restore relations with France, now that France has Sarkozy at the helm. But that new relationship will only be meaningful if France "accepts what they did in the genocide. They can give $10 billion in aid, but that isn't going to replace all the people who died."

Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

Offline E.R. Campbell

  • Retired, years ago
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 490,710
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,430
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #105 on: September 25, 2007, 18:04:38 »
A similar thing happened 12 years ago when Cameroon (a former French colony) joined the Commonwealth.

There were two Cameroon colonies: a large French one and a small British one, after they gained independence (1960 and 61, respectively) they united and were, largely, French dominated.

In 1995, despite much pressure from the French (I was in Geneva a lot during the early '90s and I heard a fair bit about that from my Cameroonian neighbour (we sat near one another in the big conference room)), they joined the Commonwealth while remaining in la Francophonie. Aid and trade were the drivers.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
----------
Like what you see/read here on Army.ca?  Subscribe, and help keep it "on the air!"

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 26,410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,648
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #106 on: September 25, 2007, 18:09:52 »
English as the dominant language of trade is essential.
Nothing more needs to be said - IMHO
Chimo!

Offline Greymatters

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 15,700
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,571
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #107 on: September 25, 2007, 19:13:59 »
Interesting article, good post!

Online Blackadder1916

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 235,505
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,329
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #108 on: September 25, 2007, 22:25:22 »
A similar thing happened 12 years ago when Cameroon (a former French colony) joined the Commonwealth.

...Aid and trade were the drivers.

While it may appear that there are some similarities in both situations, the major difference is that French and English were official languages in Cameroon from the time of the unification of the former colonies.  Even though Cameroon is now a member of the Commonwealth, France remains it most significant trading and military partner.  French remains the primary working language of much of the government and business.

Rwanda, on the other hand, did not have any official use of English until significant numbers of exiles (like President Kagame) returned, often having spent many years in Uganda or Tanzania.  They do not have much affection for the French due to the connection with the Rwanda government before and during the events of 1994.   However, French remains the second widely spoken language after Kinyarwanda.  But this is not new, other than English now being an official language.  I was surprised (in 1994) by the number of people that I encountered who spoke English (often better than my French).
Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

Online MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 85,665
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,086
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #109 on: November 24, 2007, 14:23:30 »
What's the UN's exit strategy?  MONUC was established in 1999.
http://www.monuc.org/Home.aspx?lang=en

CF involvement (approx. 10 people): Operation CROCODILE
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Operations/Crocodile/index_e.asp

DR Congo threatens war on rebels Nov. 23
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7109932.stm

Quote
The head of the army in the Democratic Republic of Congo says he has given up all hope of a peaceful solution to the conflict in eastern Congo.

General Dieudonne Kayembe said force was now the only way to deal with dissident General Laurent Nkunda.

Fighting has continued in the North Kivu province for a third day, with government troops using heavy artillery against rebel forces in Rugari.

Gen Nkunda has threatened UN troops, accusing them of backing the army.

The United Nations peacekeeping mission in DR Congo (Monuc) says the army has been sending reinforcements to the region ahead of a possible major offensive against Gen Nkunda...

Observers say the army seems to be trying to target Gen Nkunda's supply lines near the Rwandan border.

Rugari is 30km (19 miles) from the North Kivu regional capital, Goma, towards the border.

Rwanda has always denied claims it backs Gen Nkunda, who is an ethnic Tutsi, like most of the Rwandan leaders...

"Now that all attempts to use persuasion, to use peaceful means have been used, I am here in Goma to set up plans for military force," Gen Kayembe said.

"We are doing the military planning with Monuc. [emphasis added]"

But this has prompted Gen Nkunda to accuse the UN of taking sides...

U.N. to help Congo disarm dissidents by force Nov. 22
http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnL2263238.html

Quote
U.N. peacekeepers will help Democratic Republic of Congo's army disarm eastern dissident groups by force in violence-plagued North Kivu province, U.N. and Congolese commanders said.

Army soldiers and fighters loyal to renegade Tutsi general Laurent Nkunda clashed again on Thursday a few miles from Rutshuru, where the dissidents attacked an army base a day earlier and forced thousands of civilians to flee.

"Now that all peaceful means have been explored with no result ... we will enter into a phase where there is no other solution than to constrain them to (reintegrate) without delay or conditions," General Babacar Gaye, military chief of the U.N. peace mission MONUC, said in comments broadcast on Thursday on U.N. radio.

The army has battled renegade Tutsi General Laurent Nkunda since he abandoned a peace deal in August, raiding government positions and forcing tens of thousands of civilians to flee.

Under diplomatic pressure to find a peaceful solution to the North Kivu crisis, President Joseph Kabila delayed a planned military offensive against Nkunda last month but ordered the rebels to disband and reintegrate the national army.

However, only a few hundred fighters have so far deserted Nkunda's ranks, believed to total around 4,000, and Congolese army chief of staff General Dieudonne Kayembe said the time had come to launch operations against the rebels.

"I have come here precisely in order to establish plans for constraint, for the use of force. We will carry out this work of conceiving, of planning, with MONUC," he said.

The operations would also target local Mai Mai militia, and Hutu-dominated Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR) rebels also present in North Kivu, Gaye and Kayembe said.

MONUC's 17,000-strong force has a mandate to operate with the army to reestablish security and protect civilians, but U.N. sources said for the time being it would limit its role to planning and logistical support for Congolese operations [emphasis added].

For an example of the misinformation that a certain Canadian "expert"--much loved by the media, guess who (not Steve Staples)--spreads about the Congo (and other things) see this comment at another topic:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,65224.msg604846.html#msg604846

Mark
Ottawa
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 14:28:42 by MarkOttawa »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Online MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 85,665
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,086
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #110 on: June 02, 2008, 16:30:35 »
Canada spurns UN plea on Congo
Rejecting request to lead peacekeepers indicates Ottawa abandoning traditional role, ex-envoy says

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/435224

A post at The Torch:

Just say "No" to Congo
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/06/just-say-no-to-congo.html

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Myth
  • *****
  • 304,665
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,806
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2008, 17:00:21 »
France accused in Rwanda genocide

Rwanda has accused France of playing an active role in the genocide of 1994, in which about 800,000 people were killed.
An independent Rwandan commission said France was aware of preparations for the genocide and helped train the ethnic Hutu militia perpetrators.
The report also accused French troops of direct involvement in the killings.

It named 33 senior French military and political figures that it said should be prosecuted. France has previously denied any such responsibility.
Among those named in the report were the late former president, Francois Mitterrand, and two former prime ministers, Dominique de Villepin and Edouard Balladur.
Also named was former Foreign Minister Alain Juppe.

The French foreign ministry told the BBC it would only respond to the fresh allegations after reading the report, which was released on Tuesday afternoon.    

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7542418.stm
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Online GAP

  • Semper Fi
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 218,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,975
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #112 on: August 05, 2008, 17:43:22 »
Did I miss a whole chunk of stuff? I thought the major European culprit was Belgium....
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 26,410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,648
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #113 on: August 05, 2008, 17:44:20 »
Cheezzz

This kind of accusations - some 14 years old... lovely!

If the Rwandans wanted the world to take them seriously, they would've, at the very least, started making accusations 12 years ago.  Prosecution could come later BUT, initial finger pointing should have been present from the get go... IMHO
Chimo!

Offline 3rd Horseman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 370
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 661
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2008, 21:22:42 »
Agreed Geo, 14 years to start pointing fingers is a bit much. Particularly when amongst the militarys at the time it was common knowledge that the French had the FFL supporting the government before and during the genocide. When the French found themselves on the wrong side of the war and facing blue helmets they removed the FFL and staged them for another Blue helmet mission in Bosnia instead of lending support to the UN in Rwanda...the irony is too much.

3rd Horseman

Sanctuary is as hard to find and as difficult to walk on as a razors edge

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 26,410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,648
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2008, 21:34:33 »
Did I miss a whole chunk of stuff? I thought the major European culprit was Belgium....
Rwanda IS a former Belgian colony BUT, it's military was being supported by the French
When everything went to hell.... the French found themselves on the wrong side and simply walked away - leaving the Belgian paras (amongst others) to their own fate.
Chimo!

Online GAP

  • Semper Fi
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 218,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,975
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #116 on: August 05, 2008, 22:27:57 »
Rwanda IS a former Belgian colony BUT, it's military was being supported by the French
When everything went to hell.... the French found themselves on the wrong side and simply walked away - leaving the Belgian paras (amongst others) to their own fate.

I did not know that....thank you
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Online Blackadder1916

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 235,505
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,329
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2008, 22:51:13 »
This kind of accusations - some 14 years old... lovely!

If the Rwandans wanted the world to take them seriously, they would've, at the very least, started making accusations 12 years ago.  Prosecution could come later BUT, initial finger pointing should have been present from the get go... IMHO

Though specifically naming the leadership of the French government in its accusations of complicity in the genocide is a relatively new wrinkle to this tale, the finger pointing has been on-going since the French established the 'Zone Turquoise'  back in 1994. 

This latest round of accusations may have something to do with events stemming from 2006:  in May of that year, several civil lawsuits are filed and accepted in a Paris court by victims of the genocide alleging that French troops assisted Interahamwe militias in finding their victims, and also carried out atrocities;  a French magistrate then begins an investigation into the downing of the Rwandan president's plane that preceded the widespead outbreak of violence (the plane's crew were French);  the investigation leans towards implicating President Kagame (current Rwandan president) in its downing; Rwanda initiates its own investigation into French actions in the genocide and then severs diplomatic relations with France in Nov.  These latest accusations come from that investigation's report.

Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

Online Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 216,655
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,976
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

"If change isn’t allowed to be a process, it becomes an event." - Penny Mordaunt 10/10/2019

“Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards” ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 26,410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,648
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2008, 07:54:49 »
Had missed the French legal action in 2006 Blackadder
So this new "action" starts to make sense... sort-of.
Now that Rwanda is applying for membership to the Commonwealth, it,ll be interesting to see how Sarkozy will fix this fine pickle
Chimo!

Offline time expired

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 7,275
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 410
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #120 on: August 06, 2008, 13:39:51 »
In one of the books that I read about Rwanda, I'm damned if I can remember
which one,sorry,I read about the aftermath of the shooting down of the
Presidents aircraft.The UN staff attempted to get to the crash site but were
stopped by a group of white men with short haircuts carrying French weapons.
The aircraft was reportedly shot down by 2 light SAMs(as in shoulderfired)
weapons that the Rwandan army did not have in service.Another point that
could indicate Frances desire to cover something up at the time,was the fast
deployment of French troops to guard the refugee camps where most of the
perpetrators of the massacres ended up after the Tutsi army had gained the
upper hand in Rwanda.
 After the Rainbow Warrior incident in New Zealand I would take any French
denials with a large grain of salt.
                                  Regards
nothing is better for the morale of the troops
as occasionally to see a dead general
               field marshal slim

Offline time expired

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 7,275
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 410
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #121 on: August 06, 2008, 13:46:16 »
Something I failed to mention in my last was the fact that the Hutu
were French speakers and the Tutsi  mainly English speakers and
the French had always supported the Hutu.
                                      Regards
nothing is better for the morale of the troops
as occasionally to see a dead general
               field marshal slim

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #122 on: August 06, 2008, 13:54:43 »
But you can blame the division between Hutus and Tutsis on the Belgians.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 26,410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,648
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #123 on: August 06, 2008, 14:32:35 »
Umm... the division was already there - two tribes occupying +/- the same piece of land.
The trouble was the Belgians befriended the Hutus and used them as their administrators and plantation managers.  When the Belgians decided to call colonialism quits, they handed everything over to Hutu control - the smaller of the two tribes.
Chimo!

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2008, 14:34:45 »
The trouble was the Belgians befriended the Hutus and used them as their administrators and plantation managers.  When the Belgians decided to call colonialism quits, they handed everything over to Hutu control - the smaller of the two tribes.

I'm aware of that and that is what i meant.