Author Topic: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes  (Read 45066 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fred Herriot

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 5,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 282
  • Retired word processor jockey
    • http://NA
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2019, 07:36:52 »
Well, it's a start.  Most likely, 434 Squadron will get the aircraft.
Non Nobis Sed Patriae
Servire Armatis

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 254,625
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,002
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2019, 07:57:13 »
Well, it's a start.  Most likely, 434 Squadron will get the aircraft.

...or a detachment of 427.  It depends on whether the RCAF wants to chop another squadron OPCOM to CANSOF.

Regards
G2G

Offline SeaKingTacco

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 168,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,866
  • Door Gunnery- The Sport of Kings!
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2019, 09:46:22 »
Well, it's a start.  Most likely, 434 Squadron will get the aircraft.

Why 434 Sqn?

Offline dapaterson

    Halfway to being an idiot-savant.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 524,560
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,100
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2019, 10:10:23 »
Yes, I also am curious about how / why 434 would be assigned these resources.  Frankly, from a core platform perspective, they'd be a better fit under 8 OSS.

But I agree with G2G that a single SOF squadron is the most likely outcome (unless someone in the light blue world decides that it would be better to have a second SOF Sqn, which would then require an intermediate SOF Air Formation and associated C2 positions...)

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/squadron/multi-engine-utility-flight.page?
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 30,302
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,521
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2019, 10:58:36 »
Not going to 434 Sqn (former EW Sqn now OT&E) or 8 OSS.  It’ll be a tan asset.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Retired AF Guy

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 65,865
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,885
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2019, 11:05:52 »
Bumped with the latest from the Pentagon info-machine as of 20 Dec 2019 ...

Link is not working, in fact the whole "www.defense.gov" website is down.

I'm assuming this is just the continuation of the original contract awarded back in Oct 2018?
"Leave one wolf alive, and the sheep are never safe."

Arya Stark

Offline dapaterson

    Halfway to being an idiot-savant.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 524,560
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,100
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2019, 11:11:03 »
Not going to 434 Sqn (former EW Sqn now OT&E) or 8 OSS.  It’ll be a tan asset.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting they would or they should; only pointing out that it will be the same airframe (though likely employed somewhat differently...)
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 454,015
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,909
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2019, 12:28:48 »
Link is not working, in fact the whole "www.defense.gov" website is down.
Working for me as of this post.  JUST in case, I've attached the text as well.

I'm assuming this is just the continuation of the original contract awarded back in Oct 2018?
I suspect it's follow-up of the same, too -- only there was a lot more $ involved in the initial 2018 State Dep't approval.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 254,625
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,002
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2019, 14:09:46 »
Working for me as of this post.  JUST in case, I've attached the text as well.
I suspect it's follow-up of the same, too -- only there was a lot more $ involved in the initial 2018 State Dep't approval.

Not enough detail in the recent release regarding program details, vis a vis DoD/DoS budget allocated to the OEM, versus other integration elements that might not be included in that $37M figure.

Interesting to see it in the Army programs vice the Air Force programs. Gives indication as to the potential/likely configuration the exported assets will comprise.

Regards
G2G

Offline Retired AF Guy

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 65,865
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,885
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2019, 14:16:02 »
Working for me as of this post.  JUST in case, I've attached the text as well.
I suspect it's follow-up of the same, too -- only there was a lot more $ involved in the initial 2018 State Dep't approval.

Looks like it was my browser (Firefox); tried MS Edge and connected now problem.
"Leave one wolf alive, and the sheep are never safe."

Arya Stark

Online tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 121,755
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,458
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2019, 15:22:36 »
The Army has its own fleet of ISR aircraft. No need to rely on the USAF for support.

https://www.army.mil/article/137612/army_fixed_wing_aircraft

https://www.janes.com/article/85670/us-army-seeks-high-altitude-isr-aircraft

Bombardier Global 6000 seems to be a potential winner.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 15:27:33 by tomahawk6 »

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 254,625
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,002
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2019, 15:53:17 »
The Army has its own fleet of ISR aircraft. No need to rely on the USAF for support.

Was thinking more the difference between the EMARSS and Java Man MC-12 variants, not US DoD end user.  That said, 6000 for US Army would be a sweet rig. :nod:

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 30,302
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,521
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2019, 16:02:08 »
To be clear, I wasn't suggesting they would or they should; only pointing out that it will be the same airframe (though likely employed somewhat differently...)
Ack - the decision makers involved in this project had a very “fling-wing ” influence and thus made their calls as their experience deemed it.   Not a very attractive platform or mission from the AM community, it will have its own challenges WRT manning IMHO.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 254,625
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,002
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #63 on: December 24, 2019, 16:24:24 »
Ack - the decision makers involved in this project had a very “fling-wing ” influence and thus made their calls as their experience deemed it.   Not a very attractive platform or mission from the AM community, it will have its own challenges WRT manning IMHO.

Non-hermetically shielded lav...  :nod:

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 238,345
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,300
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2019, 12:05:02 »
...or a detachment of 427.  It depends on whether the RCAF wants to chop another squadron OPCOM to CANSOF.

Regards
G2G

I'm not 100% plugged in on this one, but I'd put 5 bucks on a flight that falls under 427 SOAS.  Not that weird of an idea, really.  413 has seized and rotary wing airframes, 442, etc.  427 already lives/breathes SOF.  Makes sense to me...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 12:13:05 by Eye In The Sky »
"What a f$$kin' week!" - me, every Monday at about 1130hrs.

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 91,650
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,937
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2019, 16:04:17 »
Well, it's a start.  Most likely, 434 Squadron will get the aircraft.

434 has exactly 0 aircraft on its UE and fall under the RCAF.  Why would they maintain and operate a SOF aircraft, and have to set up the overhead a flying squadron has (Int, Ops, Standards, Training, Plans)?

Offline Fred Herriot

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 5,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 282
  • Retired word processor jockey
    • http://NA
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2019, 17:39:31 »
Reason why I suggested 434 OE&T Squadron is that it responds to the CF Aerospace Warfare Centre.  414 EWS Squadron also falls under the CFAWC, so it made sense to me that a new and unique combat ability would go to this group and not say 427 SOA Squadron.

Or even better, reform 428 "Ghost" Squadron as a separate ISR unit.  Given it hasn't been seen on the RCAF ORBAT for quite some time...
Non Nobis Sed Patriae
Servire Armatis

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 91,650
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,937
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2019, 17:50:12 »
Providing ISR is well outside the scope of an OT&E Squadron...

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 207,525
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,029
  • Living the staff life
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2019, 19:54:32 »
Or even better, reform 428 "Ghost" Squadron as a separate ISR unit.  Given it hasn't been seen on the RCAF ORBAT for quite some time...

...and fold the RPAS into it as well when it's stood up.  Manned and Unmanned ISR/strike platforms together in one unit   ;)
“If you run into an a-hole in the morning, you ran into an a-hole. If you run into a-holes all day, you're the a-hole.”

- Raylan Givens, Justified (cleaned up for content)

Offline dapaterson

    Halfway to being an idiot-savant.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 524,560
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,100
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2019, 21:36:10 »
...and fold the RPAS into it as well when it's stood up.  Manned and Unmanned ISR/strike platforms together in one unit   ;)

What, we're gonna stick the Auroras in there as well?  :nana:
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 30,302
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,521
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2019, 23:48:18 »
What, we're gonna stick the Auroras in there as well?  :nana:
Plus the CC-295, since CJOC has already declared it as an ISR asset.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 254,625
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,002
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: CF seeking 3 or 4 manned fixed-wing ISR planes
« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2019, 00:40:25 »
Plus the CC-295, since CJOC has already declared it as an ISR asset.

They probably have the 147F on that list as well, what with both the 295 and the 147 (and 146) working with that crazy new (to 1990s) digital imaging technology. :nod: