Author Topic: Pay - Reserve BMQ  (Read 34029 times)

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Offline CdnClassic

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Pay - Reserve BMQ
« on: September 05, 2013, 17:25:17 »
Forgive me if it has been answered before though I couldn't find any info on my particular situation. I was offered a position at my local reserve regiment and I'm expecting to begin the weekend BMQ course this fall. Do you get paid hourly during BMQ like you would on a parade night? Are there any expenses like in reg force BMQ?

To be clear my reason for joining is in no way financial but I would find this information valuable.

Thanks all.

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2013, 17:42:02 »
You do not get paid hourly in the Reserves.  While on Class A you sign a pay sheet, either for a half day(parade night) or a full day (BMQ weekend training day).

The only expenses you may have would be for items like shoe polish, gas(if you are driving to/from), etc.  When you go on course in the Reserves, you will have your Rations&Quarters provided at no cost to yourself.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 17:46:15 by -Skeletor- »

Offline CdnClassic

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 17:58:18 »
Thanks for clearing that up. Cheers!

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 18:10:21 »
To add you will also be given TD (Temporary duty) this is an allowance given for each day your on course or tasking. It's about $17.30 per day. TD and any travel expenses that you are authorized for will go on a claim that your unit will do up. The claim amount is separate from your pay.

Offline CdnClassic

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 18:52:43 »
That's excellent, more than I expected. The CF really takes care of their people.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 18:56:59 »
The CF really takes care of their people.

The first time you have bills that you can't pay because someone didn't enter your pay in time, you won't say that.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2013, 19:00:08 »
To add you will also be given TD (Temporary duty) this is an allowance given for each day your on course or tasking. It's about $17.30 per day. TD and any travel expenses that you are authorized for will go on a claim that your unit will do up. The claim amount is separate from your pay.

TD is not payable for activities that occur in the local area. Like the weekend BMQ.
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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2013, 19:22:40 »
TD is not payable for activities that occur in the local area. Like the weekend BMQ.

Weekend BMQ can be done outside local area. Kingston ran one that have Brockville Rifles and some others on it last year, drove them down every weekend for it.

Offline CdnClassic

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2013, 19:32:53 »
The first time you have bills that you can't pay because someone didn't enter your pay in time, you won't say that.

Haha I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed.

TD is not payable for activities that occur in the local area.

Does anyone happen to know where the Lorne Scots Regiment (Based in Brampton, ON) sends their recruits for BMQ? I'm assuming Toronto. Would that be considered local?

Offline DarkInfantry232

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 19:39:50 »
Haha I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Does anyone happen to know where the Lorne Scots Regiment (Based in Brampton, ON) sends their recruits for BMQ? I'm assuming Toronto. Would that be considered local?

Fort York Armories if i'm not wrong.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 19:42:17 »
The first time you have bills that you can't pay because someone didn't enter your pay in time, you won't say that.

Or when the pay clerks pay goes through but not your own  :nod:
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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 20:55:45 »
That's excellent, more than I expected. The CF really takes care of their people.

Until your injured. Then its a whole new ball game.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2013, 09:05:04 »
That's a pretty broad and misleading post IMO.
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2013, 14:06:53 »
That's a pretty broad and misleading post IMO.

Your entitled to your opinion. I don't want to derail the thread but I suggest doing some reading over in the VAC and other soldiers benefits board. A lot of members may not like hearing those types of posts for new recruits because it may scare them off. Getting injured is very real in the CAF and knowing what your entitled to and the benefits is important. It is also important for them to know the long drawn out process and the fight it takes to get those benefits.

When I joined I never even looked at benefits or at VAC. So with posts like that I hope the new recruits do a little research into it so they are fully aware of what they are entitled to and the process.

That post was also my opinion but one that comes with years of experience. I know I'm not the only one with that opinion either.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2013, 14:15:54 »
I've got almost 2 and a half decades in the CF.  I have been injured during that time and also am a VAC 'customer'.   

I think it is important to keep separate the treatment you get from the CF if you're injured and how VAC handles their cases; is that a fair statement then?
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2013, 14:29:01 »
No, its not fair. Although the CF has come a long way it is still a work in progress and one that seems to constantly needs to be in check. There are many issues still happening. Look at the current JPSU issue. Yes, the staff are hard workers but are overworked and short staffed and help is not getting to a lot of soldiers that need it.

There is also a large difference between being injured and continuing to serve and being injured and given a medical release.


Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Pay/Expenses during reserve weekend BMQ?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2013, 14:36:11 »
Fair enough.  I'll end my comments with this; it is not the case for everyone who is injured while serving. 
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline Ruffles250

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Pay - Reserves
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2016, 21:13:04 »
Hey, I'm registered for BMQ during the fall for my unit in Lethbridge. I was wondering about the pay, like how much per week, and when you get paid.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2016, 21:29:02 »
I was wondering about the pay, like how much per week, and when you get paid.

For reference, perhaps,

Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)

will be merged with,

Canadian Forces Pay Scales/Rates (Merged)
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=882.0
14 pages.

See also,

Pay Scales for Primary RESERVE
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=123857.0

Reserve pay dates
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=121129.0

NCM Class A and B Service Rates
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-pay/ncm-class-a-b-service-rates.page

Total amount that Reservists make in a year 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=117121.0

Pay BMQ weekend
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+pay&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=3Ka7V8msEMeC8Qf4rrHoDg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+pay+weekend

etc...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 21:44:09 by mariomike »

Offline runormal

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Re: Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2016, 21:32:54 »
It's what 11 weekends?

So 11*2 full days plus 11 half says for a total of 22 + 5.5 = 27.5 days.

I'd wager you'll work two weekends a month, on average one should fall on each pay period. But pay can be delayed for a variety of reasons so I wouldn't count on the money always coming in when it is supposed to. You should also get some t.d which will add extra income, but I forget the rate.

You may get the opportunity for supplementary training with your home unit, which will provide additional income. Your mileage may vary.


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Re: Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2016, 21:43:50 »
Hey, I'm registered for BMQ during the fall for my unit in Lethbridge. I was wondering about the pay, like how much per week, and when you get paid.

15th and the 30th of every month, your pay will be 2 weeks delayed (any work 1-15 will be on 30 pay, 16-30 on next month's 15th).

You get paid what you show up for work for, based on your daily rate of pay. Its like any hourly job, the more you show up the more you get.

Offline Ruffles250

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Re: Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2016, 22:20:43 »
Okay, thanks for the info guys! Also, does anyone know how the Reserves scholarship works? I heard it's up to 2000 a year, but I have no idea how to qualify or apply for it.

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Re: Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2016, 22:23:12 »
Its not a scholarship. Ask your chain of command at your unit, and its only reimbursed at the end of each year. Up to $2k a year up to $8k lifetime.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2016, 22:23:48 »
Also, does anyone know how the Reserves scholarship works?

Is this what you are referring to?

Reserve University Reimbursement Program 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,18268.50.html
3 pages.

See also,

Education Reimbursement 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,782.125.html
7 pages.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 22:29:02 by mariomike »

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Re: Pay during Fall BMQ(Reserves)
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2016, 09:38:35 »
Okay, thanks for the info guys! Also, does anyone know how the Reserves scholarship works? I heard it's up to 2000 a year, but I have no idea how to qualify or apply for it.

210.801 - Education Reimbursement - Primary Reserve

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-210-misc-entitlements-grants.page#sec-801

You must be BMOQ/BMQ qualified before you are eligible to apply for education reimbursement.  You local Reserve Unit Orderly Room can provide details.
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Offline MarwanKhan118

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Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2016, 17:00:19 »
Hi,

I am currently waiting for my interview for the Reserves, and after starting BMQ, I'm curious about what I will be getting for the normal monthly reserve calendar. Would anyone know the starting pay for an infantry soldier in the Reserves? I have exhausted this search engine as well as Google but can't find anything relevant.

Thank you in advance if answered.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2016, 17:02:48 »
Would anyone know the starting pay for an infantry soldier in the Reserves?

Pay Scales for Primary RESERVE
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,123857.0.html

Not sure why this is in VAC if you are an applicant?

See also,

MarwanKhan118

And if anybody else knows, how much is the starting pay for an infantry soldier in the reserve.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 17:11:57 by mariomike »

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2016, 17:19:37 »
Hi,

I am currently waiting for my interview for the Reserves, and after starting BMQ, I'm curious about what I will be getting for the normal monthly reserve calendar. Would anyone know the starting pay for an infantry soldier in the Reserves? I have exhausted this search engine as well as Google but can't find anything relevant.

Thank you in advance if answered.

$90 per day of work.

A day of work is classified as 6 hours or more. There is no overtime, if buddy works 6 hours but you work 24, you both get $90.

Anything less than 6 hours and you get a Half-Day of pay (or $45).

Your pay will go up upon completion of your Basic Training, every year on the anniversary of your enrolment/promotion, and upon promotion.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2016, 17:38:34 »
See also, MarwanKhan118

And if anybody else knows, how much is the starting pay for an infantry soldier in the reserve. It would be great if anybody could provide a detailed answer,

For non-commissioned members, about $90/day (or $45/half-day) before tax.


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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2016, 18:07:45 »
I have exhausted this search engine as well as Google but can't find anything relevant.

Seriously?

https://www.google.ca:cf+reserve+pay+rate

About 3,460,000 results (0.63 seconds)
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Offline MarwanKhan118

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2016, 18:34:13 »
Thank you to everyone who replied.

I was also wondering, can you work more than one evening a week, and more than one weekend a month?

Thank you.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2016, 18:38:08 »
I was also wondering, can you work more than one evening a week, and more than one weekend a month?

Total amount that Reservists make in a year 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=117121.0
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 19:02:40 by mariomike »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2016, 19:12:25 »
Thank you to everyone who replied.

I was also wondering, can you work more than one evening a week, and more than one weekend a month?

Thank you.

Perhaps you should be reading some of the topics here, where your questions have already been answered.  Answers can be found to questions you have not even thought of yet.  A donation to the Site Owner to increase his bandwidth and storage capacity may be in order if you want to start even more redundant topics.   [:D
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2016, 20:59:48 »
Thank you to everyone who replied.

I was also wondering, can you work more than one evening a week, and more than one weekend a month?

Thank you.

On a Class A contract (standard), you are limited to a maximum of 15 days of work per month (or other Unit/Regiment limitations).

For a brand new private it works out to 1350 before taxes and other deductions. Work in the reserves is available, but not guaranteed. Do not expect or rely on the reserves as a steady, consistent source of income.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline mariomike

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Re: Pay - Reserves
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2016, 21:38:46 »
From,

Total amount that Reservists make in a year 

For example in my Unit I've got soldiers who have worked 12 days or so, and a couple who are available for everything who just broke 100 class A days.  Depending on what courses you take in the summer or what staff position you get, you could easily tack on another 30-90 class B days.

Seeing as how you appear to be brand new, and assuming you are available for everything going at you rank level, I'd say as a minimum, you can probably get 60 total days your first year (also depending on how many other in your Unit are available for work too).  Once you get your military drivers license, you can usually get a lot more days if you are available.

That's probably as good as you are going to get.  Short answer is it depends on a lot of factors.  Note: If you are joining only for the money, you'll be sorely disappointed until you are at least trades trained and able to either drive or teach.

I would add that as MSE-Ops in the Reserve, we were kept busy. More current MSE-Ops can comment on how busy the trade is now.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 21:57:12 by mariomike »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2016, 22:47:01 »
On a Class A contract (standard), you are limited to a maximum of 15 days of work per month (or other Unit/Regiment limitations).


That does not allow you to work 15 days per month for the year, though.  There is a limit of Class A time a Reservist can parade at their unit in a year (Courses exempted).
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Starting Pay for an Infantry Soldier in the Army Reserves.
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2016, 08:22:23 »
That does not allow you to work 15 days per month for the year, though.  There is a limit of Class A time a Reservist can parade at their unit in a year (Courses exempted).

It's 120 days.

However, the only people that ever get close to that number are the real workhorses of the unit. People that always volunteer for exercises or people who volunteer to be drive others to the airport for different taskings (we send people on a LOT of taskings and therefore need drivers with 404s all the time).

To go over the 120 days, you just need to submit a request to HQ. Since your justification is that these few people are the grease that makes your unit run, these requests never get turned down.
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Offline Jamiefarr

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Re: Pay - Reserves
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2018, 04:29:19 »
Hey this doesn't relate to pay but what is the schedule like during the fall? Like I saw that it runs from Friday to Sunday but what time does it start on Fridays?

Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Pay - Reserves
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2018, 11:46:03 »
Hey this doesn't relate to pay but what is the schedule like during the fall? Like I saw that it runs from Friday to Sunday but what time does it start on Fridays?

This is something that you would need to speak with your unit recruiter about.  Each Brigade has their own "Battle School" that runs weekend BMQ.  Report times may vary between Battle Schools.  Also a Battle School is for an entire Brigade, so using 32 Brigade Battle School as an example, the time to be at the Armoury might by 17h00; but it's for all units that fall under 32CBG, so if your unit is putting on transportation for you, your reporting time would vary depending on which unit you belong to.

Offline Bernieman

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Pay and Allowances during Summer Reserve BMQ
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2018, 13:20:09 »
Hi everyone, I hope that I am posting this is the right spot. This is my first post.

I have heard that when a 1st year Private Reservist is doing their BMQ during the Summer, that you get paid for every day of the month.  That would be $96.06 for every day of the month, even weekends when on leave.  Is this true? (Doesn't sound right but...)

Also, is there some kind of allowance of $17.30 per day? Do you get that when at the BMQ?

Thanks

 

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Re: Pay and Allowances during Summer Reserve BMQ
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2018, 13:34:49 »
Hi everyone, I hope that I am posting this is the right spot. This is my first post.

I have heard that when a 1st year Private Reservist is doing their BMQ during the Summer, that you get paid for every day of the month.  That would be $96.06 for every day of the month, even weekends when on leave.  Is this true? (Doesn't sound right but...)

Also, is there some kind of allowance of $17.30 per day? Do you get that when at the BMQ?

Thanks

Yes, you will get paid $96.06 for all of the days you are away on training.

$17.30 per day for Incidentals which is to cover things like haircuts, hygiene products, razor blades.

You will also get CLDA (Casual Land Duty Allowance), approx. $12/day for each day spent in the field.
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Offline kratz

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Re: Pay and Allowances during Summer Reserve BMQ
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2018, 13:48:30 »
Hi everyone, I hope that I am posting this is the right spot. This is my first post.

I have heard that when a 1st year Private Reservist is doing their BMQ during the Summer, that you get paid for every day of the month.  That would be $96.06 for every day of the month, even weekends when on leave.  Is this true? (Doesn't sound right but...)

Also, is there some kind of allowance of $17.30 per day? Do you get that when at the BMQ?

Thanks

Yes, sort of.
You have mixed pay and benefits with your questions.

You will receive your pay for BMQ $96.06 gross (before deductions) for every day of your "contract", including annual leave (vacation) days.
Your pay will be direct deposit to your bank account.

The $17.30 per day are for Incidental expenses, LunchMeat gave examples.
This benefit is tax free and is part of your Temporary Duty claim. You will normally be given a small advance on this claim before you depart for BMQ, with the rest paid out after your return to your unit from your course.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Pay - Reserve BMQ
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2018, 13:52:36 »
And yes, that pay will include weekends and vacation days off (you earn two of those per month). It basically approximates being on salary where you’re paid a fixed amount per month/year.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Bernieman

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Re: Pay - Reserve BMQ
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2018, 15:18:34 »
Thanks for the quick replies!

The reason that I am asking this is because my nephew, who is only 16 yrs old and still in high school, joined the Reserves a week before BMQ started this Summer and was only paid for the weekdays and did not get a $17.30 allowance. 

He should've been on a Class "B" contract for reservists, right? (According to www.cafconnection.ca: students who work full time during the summer months are on a Class “B” contract and return to being Class “A” during the school year. Class “A” Reservists work part time. They may work as little as 3 hours per month or as much as 12 full days per month. Class “B” contracts can be as short as 14 days or as long as 3 years.)

I am thinking that maybe they kept him as a Class "A" in the pay system and that's why he didn't get paid as much. Make sense?   

Who should he see about this, the Orderly Room? Is there something specific that he should get them to check? For example, would they have a Class "B" Contract on file? I would hate to see him get under paid because of an admin error. Any suggestions?

Thanks again
 

Offline Brihard

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Re: Pay - Reserve BMQ
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2018, 16:01:15 »
Thanks for the quick replies!

The reason that I am asking this is because my nephew, who is only 16 yrs old and still in high school, joined the Reserves a week before BMQ started this Summer and was only paid for the weekdays and did not get a $17.30 allowance. 

He should've been on a Class "B" contract for reservists, right? (According to www.cafconnection.ca: students who work full time during the summer months are on a Class “B” contract and return to being Class “A” during the school year. Class “A” Reservists work part time. They may work as little as 3 hours per month or as much as 12 full days per month. Class “B” contracts can be as short as 14 days or as long as 3 years.)

I am thinking that maybe they kept him as a Class "A" in the pay system and that's why he didn't get paid as much. Make sense?   

Who should he see about this, the Orderly Room? Is there something specific that he should get them to check? For example, would they have a Class "B" Contract on file? I would hate to see him get under paid because of an admin error. Any suggestions?

Thanks again
 

Was he actually sent away somewhere full time for the summer? Did he actually do his BMQ training? Was it through a high school co-op program where he did BMQ as part of his school time?

When we work during the training -year (generally corresponds with the school year) we normally meet an evening or two a week and get a half day's pay. That's called 'Class A' service, generally we sign in on a pay sheet each time (I'm simplifying). Class B service is when you're working full time for a span of generally two weeks or more. A course like BMQ if done full time generally runs a month, and then yes you would be on Class B.

There is a limit to how many full days of Class A service a soldier can be paid for in a month. I think it's 16, I know it's close to that. It's to prevent abuse of Class A when troops should in fac tbe on Class B because they're functionally working full time.

The $17.30 daily allowance applies when you are sent away from your normal place of work for overnight / extended travel. It's 'incidentals' allowance, which is intended to cover for the fact that when away for home you incur extra costs (laundry, items you need and would normally have at home but must buy, etc). As a general rule of thumb, if you're sleeping at home, you don't get that.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Bernieman

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Re: Pay - Reserve BMQ
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2018, 14:29:12 »
Thanks Brihard,

Just wanted to reply - yes he did BMQ full time this Summer. He was away from home staying/sleeping on Base. But he did go home for one weekend.

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Re: Pay - Reserve BMQ
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2018, 14:46:36 »
Thanks Brihard,

Just wanted to reply - yes he did BMQ full time this Summer. He was away from home staying/sleeping on Base. But he did go home for one weekend.

The answers to these questions should have been taught to your nephew on his BMQ, it's part of the course.
Going home for one weekend is his "off hours" and does not affect pay.

The best person to ask these questions is your nephew going to his unit's Orderly Room (OR).
Something can easily have been missed.

It's his career and he should be asking for answers.
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Offline Bernieman

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Re: Pay - Reserve BMQ
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2018, 15:40:46 »
You're right, it's his career! Yes, HE will have to inquire to find out what happend. Now that I have an idea of how it works, I will encourage him to go back and ask.
Again, I appreciate the help with this. Cheers!

Offline runormal

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Re: Pay - Reserve BMQ
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2018, 22:59:05 »
Unless the claim process has changed, he'll need to bring his route letter back to his unit, in ordered to actually be paid the TD. You don't get paid it until you return (unless you ask for an advance).
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 00:59:00 by runormal »