Author Topic: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur  (Read 114999 times)

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2014, 18:31:31 »

(Warning  :off topic: )
To sink the tankers, they would have to have all PCBs, POL residues etc stripped (steam clean all piping etc), and gut all the insulation etc.  Would be an awesome wreck but would cost tens of millions to prep.  Darn environmental legislation!

Why not just put a submariner at the helm and let the artificial reef occur as part of the drill?  ;D
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2014, 18:52:04 »
Or hire 'Bubba's Tug and grill Co.' to get her back and let nature run it's course!

Our luck it would go flawlessly!  Highly reputable tow company = CBC leading story; sketchy fly by night tugs = success?

As long as it happened in deep enough water, and the fuels etc were off beforehand, it'd be the cheapest disposal option!

Offline suffolkowner

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #77 on: March 09, 2014, 17:55:05 »
Link removed in accordance with site policy

This is sort of what I had in mind, although I don't know why we wouldn't crew them ourselves.

I don't see the new AOR's coming online before 2020, and that might be optimistic.

Would the 230m length pose an issue?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 18:35:03 by milnews.ca »

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #78 on: March 09, 2014, 22:05:51 »
Or hire 'Bubba's Tug and grill Co.' to get her back and let nature run it's course!

I have a joke about this that would be very funny to anyone involved in towing on the eastern end of the country, but it may construed as libel.

Rest assured it's very funny though.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2014, 17:02:49 »
If the old ships sinks in deep water by accident, EC will not do anything or require that anyone does anything.

Offline Robert0288

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2014, 17:24:35 »
Only if its outside of Canadian Waters, and the pollution more or less stays out.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2014, 21:59:38 »
EC is quite odd, if purposely sunk, then they expect you to spend millions and millions prepping it, if it sinks by accident, then it's generally a shrug. Emergency Response (CG & TC) might have concerns about the fuel tanks. Look at the Queen of the North, zero interest in dealing with her, the General Zakinasi thing is more politically motivated.

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2014, 21:48:54 »
HMCS Protecteur too badly damaged to sail home on her own
Canadian navy ship, damaged by engine fire, may never sail again
CBC News Posted: Mar 14, 2014 2:55 PM PT Last Updated: Mar 14, 2014 4:35 PM PT



HMCS Protecteur, seen here entering Pearl Harbor following an engine fire, was so badly damaged it will have to be towed to its home port of Esquimault, B.C. (CBC)

A little more than a week after it was towed into Pearl Harbor, CBC News has learned HMCS Protecteur is so badly damaged following a fire in the mid-Pacific it will have to be towed home.

It is unclear whether the Canadian navy vessel will ever sail again.

A fire aboard the Esquimalt, B.C.-based ship two weeks ago disabled it so badly it was dead in the water, and had to be towed by a U.S. navy ocean tug into Pearl Harbor, a week-long trip that was hampered by rough seas and broken tow lines.


HMCS Protecteur
Sailors aboard the guided-missile cruiser USS Chosin observe HMCS Protecteur during the towing operation. The Protecteur arrived in Pearl Harbor March 6. (United States Navy and Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Johans Chavarro/Facebook)

The crew on the ship relied on generators to supply power to the galley and living areas after the fire knocked out power to the vessel.

About 20 crew members suffered minor injuries in the fire — including dehydration, exhaustion and smoke inhalation.

Now, CBC News has learned the fire caused so much damage Protecteur is unable to sail under her own power and it is questionable whether she will ever sail again.

The navy plans to undertake a marathon four-week tow to return the vessel to Esquimault sometime in April. Crew members will unload the ship of all weapons and ammunition before that happens.

Canadian navy Lieut. Greg Menzies said a skeleton crew will likely be kept aboard during the tow.

Protecteur, launched in 1969, is one of two auxiliary oil replenishment ships in the Canadian navy.

The military announced in October that Protecteur and its sister supply ship on the East Coast, HMCS Preserver, will be retired in 2015. Construction of new supply ships is expected to begin in late 2016, with a target of having them in service by 2019-20.
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #83 on: March 15, 2014, 15:08:07 »
Has anyone seen a press release about the damage?  I haven't seen anything official out yet, or about the tow. 

Just curious if its actually been released, or if the reporter got it from the grapevine.  Assuming the quote from Lt(N) Mendies was from some kind of press conference.

Mostly wondering what's out in public domain, never sure why this kind of thing isn't better communicated and explained.

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #84 on: March 15, 2014, 15:25:28 »
Has anyone seen a press release about the damage?  I haven't seen anything official out yet, or about the tow. 

Just curious if its actually been released, or if the reporter got it from the grapevine.  Assuming the quote from Lt(N) Mendies was from some kind of press conference.

Mostly wondering what's out in public domain, never sure why this kind of thing isn't better communicated and explained.

More than likely an investigation is now ongoing. I would think that disclosure of the damage may go into OPSEC areas or, more likely, the RCN wants to find out exactly what happened before making an official statement.

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Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #85 on: March 26, 2014, 09:27:40 »
It appears the fire was worst than previously reported.....

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2586636/

HMCS Protecteur crew fought engine fire for 11 hours
Commander Julian Elbourne, captain of Protecteur, speaks exclusively with CBC News
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #86 on: March 26, 2014, 12:26:14 »
It appears the fire was worst than previously reported.....

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2586636/

HMCS Protecteur crew fought engine fire for 11 hours
Commander Julian Elbourne, captain of Protecteur, speaks exclusively with CBC News

Holy crap I guess so.  Fighting a fire in the dark in choppy seas with no power and issues with O2 tanks.  I wonder why the CF tried to downplay this.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #87 on: March 26, 2014, 14:14:54 »
I have seen media reports (which have not been confirmed by DND/CAF) indicating significant heat damage of the hull to the point of permanent deformation.

Any heating cycles sufficient to do this would likely have also permanently changed the strength properties of the metal.

If the reports are correct, that would not be a good sign for the ship returning to service.  I'd also wonder how close the ship came to a far more catastrophic failure.

Online Chief Engineer

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #88 on: March 26, 2014, 14:29:13 »
Well from I have been able learn from media reports, the fire started in a port TA (turbo alternator), when a LO hose ruptured. The fire fed from a storage tank roared out of control for several hours until they were able to put it out, it was up to 11 hours to have the area overhauled(quite a large space). There were reports of melting boots through heat transfer to the decks. The space above is the MCR (machinery control room) and in that area a lot of very important wires that were damaged. I expect that there is deck and frame damage. With parts no longer being made and the cost to repair, I doubt the ship will sail again.
How close they were to a disaster, don't know but any sustained machinery space fire at sea is catastrophic. Their training kicked in and they never gave up.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 15:22:26 by Chief Stoker »
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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #89 on: March 26, 2014, 15:18:48 »
Not only that, but the locker in the messes above melted as well.  She's toast, there's no way she's economically repairable.

Offline AirDet

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #90 on: March 26, 2014, 17:52:07 »
Protecteur was my home in 1999 and 2000. I enjoyed sailing her; large, steady, and a hard working friendly crew. The hangar was massive. I feel sad knowing she may never sail under her own power again.

I feel a full page of RCN history is about to turn as we loose another West Coast ship is paid-off.

B-Z to the crew that fought to keep her afloat. You earned those extra days in Pearl.
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Offline cupper

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #91 on: March 26, 2014, 18:55:43 »
I'd be interested to know the lessons learned that develop from this, and what changes may result in the design aspects of the new vessels coming down the line.

I know there were significant changes in ship design made after the Kootenay fire in '69 as a result of the investigation and after action reports.

Unfortunately the engineering world learns more from it's failures than it's successes. Fortunately in this case there was no loss of life.

Bravo Zulu to the Captain and Crew. I know from my father's experience on the Kootenay that they were fighting for their lives, and were more than ready to meet the challenge.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #92 on: March 26, 2014, 20:23:24 »
More important will be the lessons learned for damage control & what gets trained.  That will benefit the entire fleet.
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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #93 on: March 27, 2014, 01:51:54 »
Both fleets, west and east coast.  I imagine allies will also be interested too.  We learn from other's experiences as well.

Offline Pat in Halifax

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #94 on: March 27, 2014, 04:55:42 »
I'd be interested to know the lessons learned that develop from this, and what changes may result in the design aspects of the new vessels coming down the line.

I know there were significant changes in ship design made after the Kootenay fire in '69 as a result of the investigation and after action reports.

Unfortunately the engineering world learns more from it's failures than it's successes. Fortunately in this case there was no loss of life.

Bravo Zulu to the Captain and Crew. I know from my father's experience on the Kootenay that they were fighting for their lives, and were more than ready to meet the challenge.

Unfortunately, the engineering world is ignored as our equipment and what happens in the hidden confines of machinery spaces is not sexy. I would love to say more about what was known about engineering problems on this class but can't. A fresh coat of paint and some new toys up top constitute a refit these days and I am sure any of the engineering trades from any of our classes of ships will tell you this. Not counting IPMS (which is nothing more than an updated operation system like WINDOWS), absolutely nothing was done to any main, auxiliary, ancillary or power generation equipment for the Halifax class MLR-It is all still 1970s technology/equipment.
I hate hearing things like "the engineering world learns more from it's failures..." We are screaming at times and no one wants to listen. It is not the engineering world who learns from failures like this; we saw it coming. It is the rest of the Navy who finally picks up on it!
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2014, 08:42:46 »
Theres been a number of other similar incidents (though not of the same scale) on other federally owned ships recently for the same reason... they've gone beyond the end of their engineered life span, including one incident that nearly saw a ship sink, and another that's rendered close to useless until 2016 or so.

All the nostalgia in the world doesn't change the fact an old boat is an old boat... every refit, over haul, mpi, sonic inspection, etc, doesn't change that.

Time to build new boats.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 08:56:35 by a Sig Op »

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #96 on: March 27, 2014, 09:00:59 »
Both fleets, west and east coast.  I imagine allies will also be interested too.  We learn from other's experiences as well.

I thbought it was one fleet, two coasts; I stand corrected.

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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #97 on: March 27, 2014, 10:46:35 »
More important will be the lessons learned for damage control & what gets trained.  That will benefit the entire fleet.

Cynical Jim says that NDHQ will learn how to better spin this to the media.....
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #98 on: March 27, 2014, 11:04:53 »
I wonder what will become of the crew.  Will they be spread out through the fleet? Released? They should be rewarded.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Engine Room Fire in HMCS Protecteur
« Reply #99 on: March 27, 2014, 11:11:38 »
I wonder what will become of the crew.  Will they be spread out through the fleet? Released? They should be rewarded.

Cynical Jim says several will be rewarded with C & P for such flagrant violations of regulations for failing to salute officers when fighting said fire.

The uninvolved will receive much praise, and the Public Affairs lot will have dislocated shoulder due to excessive self back patting......


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