Author Topic: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread  (Read 192016 times)

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Offline muskrat89

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2014, 18:46:00 »
Quote
If Obama cured cancer tomorrow, you'd be pissed that he put Oncologists out of work, thus hurting the economy or something.

Oh - and you're not displaying any bias whatsoever...

All - debate the topic, leave the personal digs out of it.

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Offline Transporter

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2014, 19:08:30 »
Oh - and you're not displaying any bias whatsoever...

All - debate the topic, leave the personal digs out of it.

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I have no bias... frankly I couldn't care less. The Obama blamers are laughable to me though and I sometimes find it difficult to stop myself from calling them out on sh**. That said, I'm done.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2014, 21:37:48 »
>As a result, the seeds of a three way civil war between the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds were sown and the inevitable breakup of the country is now coming to pass.

Those seeds were sown with the Sykes-Picot borders.  A three-way civil war in Iraq was inevitable; Saddam Hussein was not immortal.  I suspect the counterfactual in which Hussein perished of old age or assassination would have been uglier than the breakup of Yugoslavia.  The US overthrow triggered the civil war prematurely and put the US in situ to throttle the ferocity of the war (and lose blood and treasure doing so).  I don't think US soldiers should have been put in harm's way to achieve that, but it was achieved.  Along the way, the Kurds got a fighting chance to establish their own state instead of being overrun and extinguished.  Iraq stopped being a direct threat to Israel.  Gaddhafi in Libya rethought his belligerence.  Etc.

The biggest mistake was failure to divide Iraq in three.  The second biggest mistake was to throw everything away to spite the Bush administration.  People are fond of making comparisons with Vietnam.  They are not entirely wrong.  In both cases, something was won (irrespective of whether it was worth the cost), and then thrown away out of pure political small-mindedness.  If you really don't want to negotiate a SOFA, don't be surprised when you fail to negotiate a SOFA.

The chief lesson is this: conservatives should be resolute non-interventionists, because progressives have short attention spans (the fate of all R2P) or will throw away whatever gains are made.  There is no point sending soldiers to die for nothing, and ultimately "nothing" is what has been attained in Iraq and Afghanistan.   There is no need to repeat the performance; neo-cons and R2P advocates (note they inhabit both sides of the political centre), please do not miss any future opportunities to STFU and stay home.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2014, 23:08:53 »
Given the devolution ito a 3 way struggle, a "30 year war" is perhaps the "best" possible outcome. Given the fact that there is virtually no overlap between the political, ethnic and religious "borders" and groupings in the region, only the regions with defendable geographical "bastions" will eventually remain as nation states (Turkey and Iran are bordered by mountains, deserts and seas which have allowed them to remain distinct entities for thousands of years, and Egypt is similarly sheltered from the east and west). Israel, being a free market and liberal democracy, will be able to fight on for a long time to come due to efficient use of all her resources, but much like ancient Athens, will eventually be overwhelmed and lost to the West.

While I am for a containment strategy as well, it needs to be far more total than most people assume; we need to ensure there is no electronic communications in or out of the region either. We don't need the various sides calling for allies or action in the East or West, or heart rending pictures of atrocities being staged to bring the R2P crowd into action. Coming to the aid of the Bosnian Muslims, while arguably the right thing to do from a moral standpoint gained us nothing at all. Why waste blood and treasure without even getting a "thank you" in return.

There are some regions which do demand the attention of the West (or the East). Maintaining the SLOCs through the Indian Ocean should be a great concern for our Anglosphere allies in India and Australia (as well as the honorary members like Japan), and Afghanistan merits attention as the "land bridge" allowing trade to flow East-West (the ancient Silk Road) and North-South (connecting India to central Asia), and keeping the civilized Islamic nations (ones without major infusions of Arabic or Persian cultural influences) in the fold should be a major concern of diplomats and free traders around the world as well.

To paraphrase the ancient Chinese curse; we will live in interesting times.

And as an added bonus for the historically illiterate, in 2011 the current administration was claiming credit for the situation in Iraq. because they had set the conditions in 2011, they DO NOT get to blame the current situation on anyone but themselves:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-obamas-iraq-disaster/2014/06/16/7151391e-f55b-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

Quote
Obama’s Iraq disaster
   
MARC A. THIESSEN
June 16

In 2011, the situation in Iraq was so good that the Obama administration was actually trying to take credit for it, with Vice President Joe Biden declaring that Iraq “could be one of the great achievements of this administration.”

Now in 2014, as Iraq descends into chaos, Democrats are trying to blame the fiasco on — you guessed it — George W. Bush. “I don’t think this is our responsibility,” said House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, declaring that the unfolding disaster in Iraq “represents the failed policies that took us down this path 10 years ago.”

Sorry, but this is a mess of President Obama’s making.

When Obama took office he inherited a pacified Iraq, where the terrorists had been defeated both militarily and ideologically.

Militarily, thanks to Bush’s surge, coupled with the Sunni Awakening, al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI, now the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS) was driven from the strongholds it had established in Anbar and other Iraqi provinces. It controlled no major territory, and its top leader — Abu Musab al-Zarqawi — had been killed by U.S. Special Operations forces.

Ideologically, the terrorists had suffered a popular rejection. Iraq was supposed to be a place where al-Qaeda rallied the Sunni masses to drive America out, but instead, the Sunnis joined with Americans to drive al-Qaeda out — a massive ideological defeat.

Obama took that inheritance and squandered it, with two catastrophic mistakes:

First, he withdrew all U.S. forces from Iraq — allowing the defeated terrorists to regroup and reconstitute themselves.

Second, he failed to support the moderate, pro-Western opposition in neighboring Syria — creating room for ISIS to fill the security vacuum. ISIS took over large swaths of Syrian territory, established a safe haven, used it to recruit and train thousands of jihadists, and prepared their current offensive in Iraq.


The result: When Obama took office, the terrorists had been driven from their safe havens; now they are on threatening to take control of a nation. Iraq is on the cusp of turning into what Afghanistan was in the 1990s — a safe haven from which to plan attacks on America and its allies.

It did not have to be this way. In 2011, the U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. Lloyd J. Austin III, recommended keeping between 14,000 and 18,000 troops in Iraq (down from 45,000). The White House rejected Austin’s recommendation, worried about “the cost and the political optics.” So our commanders reduced their request to 10,000 — a number commanders said might be able to work “in extremis.” But the White House rejected this as well, insisting the number be cut to between 3,000 to 4,000 troops — a level insufficient to provide force protection and train Iraqis, much less to counterbalance Iran.

Iraqi leaders saw that the United States has headed for the exits — and decided that the tiny U.S. force Obama was willing to leave behind was not worth the political costs of giving Americans immunity from prosecution in the Iraqi judicial system. So Iraq rejected Obama’s offer, and the United States withdrew all its forces. And now ISIS is taking back cities that were liberated with American blood. It has taken control of Mosul, Tikrit and Tal Afar and is nearing the outskirts of Baghdad.

ISIS is not the only U.S. enemy taking advantage of power vacuum Obama left in the region. So is Iran. A month ago, Iraqi leaders asked the United States to carry out air strikes against ISIS positions but were rebuffed by Obama. So the Iraqis have turned to Iran for help. This weekend, the brutal commander of Iran’s notorious Quds Force, Gen. Quasim Suleiman, flew to Baghdad to advise the Iraqis on the defense of Baghdad. This is the man who organized and funded the Shia militias in Iraq, and armed them with EFPs (explosively formed penetrators) — sophisticated armor-piercing roadside bombs that killed hundreds of U.S. troops. And, if you thought matters could not get any worse, the Wall Street Journal reports that Obama “is preparing to open direct talks with Iran on how the two longtime foes can counter the insurgents.” Yes, you read that right. Obama is planning to work with Iran to counter ISIS in Iraq. In other words, our troops may soon be providing air cover for the very Iranians who were killing them.

If Obama had listened to the advice of his commanders on the ground, ISIS would probably not be marching on Baghdad today, and Iran would not be stepping in to fill the void left by the U.S. withdrawal. Thanks to Obama, we may soon have a situation where we are helping our Shia extremist enemies (Iran) fight our Sunni extremist enemies (ISIS) for control of Iraq.

That’s quite an “achievement.”
Quote

While President Obama enjoys his 175th and 176th rounds of golf, perhaps inaction will work out for the West: the Iranians will have to expend their own blood and treasure against ISIS (and we should do nothing at all to help them).
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 23:44:42 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2014, 10:15:53 »
To paraphrase this Twitter poster, this Iraqi Army spokesperson's name could NOT be truer ....

"Veritas", indeed ....
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2014, 13:00:29 »
100 US SF are going to Iraq to train.I would rather see them attached to combat units and bring on the air strikes.The training mission will have to wait until the threat is eliminated.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140619/NEWS05/306190049/Report-U-S-send-100-Green-Berets-train-Iraqis

President Barack Obama is also expected to announce Thursday that he is deploying about 100 Green Berets to Iraq to help train and advise Iraqi forces, according to a U.S. official. However, Obama does not plan to announce immediate U.S. airstrikes on Iraq, which have increasingly become less of a focus of deliberations in recent days.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2014, 13:08:57 »
I was watching the news and the basic gist I got was that in Northern Iraq, the Kurds et al have set up defences and ISIS (the bad people) are a bit apprehensive about attacking the Kurds.......
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2014, 13:35:46 »
I was watching the news and the basic gist I got was that in Northern Iraq, the Kurds et al have set up defences and ISIS (the bad people) are a bit apprehensive about attacking the Kurds.......

I've read that Kurdish SF have been probing into ISIS controlled towns, and collecting intelligence
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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2014, 10:07:18 »
If the US starts bombing stuff, expect the various factions supporting the ISIS to drop a dime on each other in the hopes the US will whack them and remove the threat now that they have pretty much achieved their aims.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2014, 10:36:23 »
I've read that Kurdish SF have been probing into ISIS controlled towns, and collecting intelligence

Are the Kurds as nasty as I think they are? I suspect ISIL hasn't gone after them is cause the Kurds may give them a dirty lickin.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2014, 10:45:37 »
Historically the Kurds were in demand as mercenaries due to their fighting prowess, but the real reason they have remained as a cohesive people is they live in an easily defensible mountain redoubt, that is hard to access even with modern military technology. Think of the Swiss in the 1500's (perhaps the most feared military "people" in Europe at the time) and you should get the idea.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline upandatom

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2014, 11:28:36 »
In recent history- (Occupations) has a rebuild of a culture/country/society worked- and at what cost?

Regardless of why the US went into IRAQ, it stopped the mass murder and genocide of people in that Country. IT stopped a legitimate mad man (and his sick and twisted sons), at the head of an army, known to previously possess Chemical weapons and many human rights infringements. (North Korea anyone??)

Closest I can think of that is still far fetched is WW2, that was a flat out war, We used guerilla warfare with the french resistance at that point. Both sides wore uniforms.

The same battles are not being fought anymore. Iraq is destabilizing, Afghanistan hopefully does not once a complete withdrawl is completed. Its not uniform on uniform fighting, its not longer the same type of warfare. On so many fronts we are fighting(seeing) extremists/extremism. Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq. It is so easy nowadays to take and twist religion to uneducated masses and tell them the reason you have no food, no water, is because of the west.

I agree with the theory we tighten our borders right up, same as Europe and the Aussies are, let them fight it out.  Why are we sending soldiers to fight for a cause that ends up being a vicous circle? We help one dictatorship in, then someone else overthrows it puts up there own.

I do feel bad for the women and children, if we could protect them by all means, but 9/10 times we cant. 

MY two cents, we need to step back for a reality check, rebuild, (Not cutback our forces Financially) train and be prepared. Keep a very close and watchful eye.
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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 16:52:25 »
An assessment that may be overoptimistic? How can he be sure this Sunni coalition won't stay together longer?

Quote
Iraq's Sunnis Will Kick Out ISIS After Dumping Maliki: Ex-CIA Official
By Jeff Stein
6/25/14

Don't panic, Iraq's most powerful Sunnis are telling some old American friends. We'll take care of these upstart ISIS nuts - as soon as they oust Nouri al-Maliki from Baghdad.

That's the message Sheikh Ali Hatem al-Suleiman, leader of Iraq's biggest Sunni tribe, gave John R. Maguire, a retired former CIA deputy station chief in Baghdad, when he visited Iraq three weeks ago to talk about future oil deals in the region.

And Maguire, a veteran senior CIA paramilitary official, believes it. The tribes that once worked with the Americans to defeat Al-Qaeda in Iraq, he insists, will again rise up again to oust its spawn, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria [ISIS] - a movement so extreme it was denounced by Osama bin Laden's successor.

The Sunnis are using ISIS like a crowbar to oust Maliki, Maguire says, and then they'll turn on the invaders. Iraq as we know it will cease to exist, splitting into three new proto-states: Sunnistan in the west, Kurdistan in the north and an Iranian Shiite protectorate stretching from Baghdad east to the Arabian Sea and oil port of Basra. ISIS, in this optimistic scenario, will be pounded into oblivion.


Newsweek

« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 16:56:20 by S.M.A. »
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2014, 19:09:52 »
Oh.  Well then.  Problem sorted, whew!  Firm handshakes all around followed by brandy and cigars in the drawring room.
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Offline Nemo888

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 21:28:38 »
For a country that has such a powerful army that wins most engagements it's been a very long time since they won a war. Such a mountain of resources to accomplish so little. What a strange empire. Neither evil enough to pluder the conquered and make a profit or good enough to be morally acceptable to the local populace. China and Russia are coming back while America wanes and I wonder how America will deal with a multipolar world after being the only superpower.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2014, 21:53:39 »
ISIS is now declaring a Caliphate over the territory it controls in Syria and Iraq. If it were up to me I would allow Iran and Syria to expend their resources fighting ISIS, and let the Gulf States spend whatever they want supporting them. The carrier battle group in the Arabian Sea and one in the Med would be best employed to keep the fighting contained in the region, and prevent it from spreading beyond the Middle East.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-declares-creation-of-mideast-caliphate/


Quote
ISIS declares creation of Mideast caliphate across Iraq and Syria

BAGHDAD - The al Qaeda breakaway group that has seized much of northern Syria and huge tracks of neighboring Iraq formally declared the creation of an Islamic state on Sunday in the territory under its control.

The spokesman for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, made the announcement in an audio statement posted online. Islamic extremists have long dreamed of recreating the Islamic state, or caliphate, that ruled over the Middle East for hundreds of years.

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, commander of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIs), is shown in a U.S. State Department wanted poster handout image. U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT/REUTERS
Abu Mohammed al-Adnani said the group's chief, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, is the new leader, or caliph, of the Islamic state. He called on those living in the areas under the organization's control to swear allegiance to al-Baghdadi and support him.

"The legality of all emirates, groups, states and organizations becomes null by the expansion of the caliph's authority and the arrival of its troops to their areas," al-Adnani said.

Al-Baghdadi rose through the ranks of the organization before becoming emir some time in 2010-2011. The group relies on a handful of senior decision makers, but al-Baghdadi has the final word, according to the intelligence official. Most of its funding comes via robbery, extortion and smuggling, with a small percentage coming from donations. ISIS has also reportedly looted banks in some of the cities its seized.

Al-Adnani said that with the creation of the caliphate, the group was changing its name to just the Islamic State, dropping the mention of Iraq and the Levant.

 
Play VIDEO
Iraqi military's anti-ISIS offensive stalls in Tikrit
The Iraqi military's offensive against ISIS stalled over the weekend during an assault on the jihadist-held city of Tikrit, reports CBS News correspondent Charlie D'Agata.

While the situation is fluid, the military's largest-yet offensive was pushed back and is the latest in a series of failures against the militants, D'Agata reports.

 
Play VIDEO
Questions surround Iraqi army’s advance on Tikrit
It was unclear what immediate practical impact the caliphate declaration would have on the ground in Syria and Iraq, or among the wider global jihadi community.

Former CIA Director Michael Morell told "CBS This Morning" earlier this month that ISIS' first goal is "to set up that caliphate and, it's not just in Iraq and in Syria."

"Their second goal then is to use that as a safe haven to attack the United States," he warned.

 
Play VIDEO
Solving the Rubik's cube of Iraq violence
Despite that prospect, the creation of a safe haven isn't the only concern for U.S. intelligence officials, Morell said. They also have concerns about ISIS sparking a very bloody sectarian war that could create a massive humanitarian crisis and even more chaos in the region along Shia and Sunni sectarian lines.

U.S. advisers have been part of the recent offensive against ISIS, according to Iraqi officials, helping to coordinate resources. U.S. officials also announced recently they are flying armed drones over Iraq.

Despite the threat of a caliphate safe haven, and the Iraqi military's thus-far ineptitude against ISIS, there is unlikely to be much immediate wider American involvement in the conflict.

Both the Obama administration and members of Congress have expressed repeated concerns about the functionality of the Iraqi government, currently headed by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

Lawmakers of both parties increasingly say al-Maliki needs to depart from office if there's any chance of a political reconciliation to stabilize the country and curb the growing threat from ISIS.

"He needs to put together a government. We know that Sunnis and Shias alike have come out against him, but if you're going to want the Kurds, the Sunnis and the Shias working together, it cannot work with Maliki," said Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday. "He's going to continue to go to others to prop him up. We see the Russian planes coming in, and he continues to go to Iran."

 
Play VIDEO
Joe Manchin: U.S. "military might" will not fix Iraq
In separate interviews on "Face the Nation" Sunday, Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.V., and House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Mike McCaul, R-Texas, reached the same conclusion.

"I don't think this can happen with Maliki in power. The good news is they have to finalize their government at the end of this month, and I do think the Shias are starting to move towards that direction to a new leader," McCaul said.

Manchin, for his part, predicted that Iraq's Shiite prime minister will not "change his ways," and went so far as to predict that his fall from power could lead to a change in national boundaries within the Middle East.

"The lines that were drawn 100 years ago won't be the lines when it's all finished. And we, for some reason, don't want to accept that," Manchin said.

Barrasso also said it's possible that Iraq breaks into three different states drawn along religious lines, especially because the current destabilization gives the Kurds an opening to establish a long-sought independent area.

"I think it's in the best interest of the United States to have a stable Iraq, but we're not there now," he said.

Play VIDEO
Flash Points: Why are foreign fighters gathering in Iraq and Syria?
CBS News Senior National Security Analyst Juan Zarate, a national security adviser under former President George W. Bush, said recently the threat has the potential to reach U.S. soil.

ISIS "is not just a threat in Baghdad or even Syria. It's a real threat to the West, because it's able to recruit fighters, train them, send them out, and then possibly redeploy them back West," Zarate said.

The concern is that the foreigners recruited by ISIS could become more radicalized after their time on the battlefield and return home to "attack their fellow citizens in the West," Zarate said Wednesday.

The fighters "turn in [their] passport, get paid for it, the passports then get reconfigured and sold to others heading back west," he said. "There's an entire infrastructure to getting people in and out, money in and out, and it's very easy then to have people hidden in that mix. The challenge then is: who's coming out to potentially attack [other] countries?"
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2014, 01:15:01 »
ISIS is now declaring a Caliphate over the territory it controls in Syria and Iraq. If it were up to me I would allow Iran and Syria to expend their resources fighting ISIS, and let the Gulf States spend whatever they want supporting them. The carrier battle group in the Arabian Sea and one in the Med would be best employed to keep the fighting contained in the region, and prevent it from spreading beyond the Middle East.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-declares-creation-of-mideast-caliphate/

The dilemma of any popular movement in the Arab world as described by Alexander:

"I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion."

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Online jollyjacktar

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2014, 08:36:42 »
They have a 5 year plan to include Spain, the Balkan states, the Middle East, North Africa and large areas of Asia.  Good luck with Israel in particular.  There's a photo in the article of Russian warplanes at Baghdad setting up on Saturday.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2674736/ISIS-militants-declare-formation-caliphate-Syria-Iraq-demand-Muslims-world-swear-allegiance.html#ixzz367okIfsS


 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 10:22:23 by jollyjacktar »
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2014, 09:12:29 »
Curious that their map doesn't show the parts of Sherwood Park, various sub divisions and university campuses in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa? bad staff work there ISIS, you took your own forward elements off the OP.  Your Loggies wont be able to send over the necessary rations, tight fitting jeans and running shoes.

Offline upandatom

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2014, 10:02:41 »
Curious that their map doesn't show the parts of Sherwood Park, various sub divisions and university campuses in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa? bad staff work there ISIS, you took your own forward elements off the OP.  Your Loggies wont be able to send over the necessary rations, tight fitting jeans and running shoes.

BA DUM TIS


Still boggles my mind why none of these Middle Eastern States have bomb the F#@$ out of these guys yet, They are infringing on their borders. Middle East needs to start handling its own crap.

I am McLovin

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2014, 11:23:43 »
Maybe it's time for the US Government to accuse them of having WMDs.  *wink wink*
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2014, 11:44:05 »
Actually, I think that is not the way to go.  I think we should just slam the door in their faces and let them sort themselves out. 

Do we need their oil?  Not really. 
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Offline Transporter

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2014, 12:38:54 »
Actually, I think that is not the way to go.  I think we should just slam the door in their faces and let them sort themselves out. 

Do we need their oil?  Not really.

Agree completely. Besides, if/when we do need their oil it'll still be there for the taking (or should I say "purchasing").

Offline Kat Stevens

    beth am dyrnu braf yn y gwddf?

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2014, 13:12:08 »
Actually, I think that is not the way to go.  I think we should just slam the door in their faces and let them sort themselves out. 

Do we need their oil?  Not really.

No, but the oil companies need the excuse of "regional instability" in order to drive up the price of oil that we don't even get from there... Follow the money...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 13:16:31 by Kat Stevens »
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Iraq in Crisis- Merged Superthread
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2014, 13:32:01 »
George you must be driving a Kia  ;D

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