Author Topic: 3B Med Release and TOS  (Read 14876 times)

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Offline ayo23

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3B Med Release and TOS
« on: September 22, 2014, 16:22:11 »
Hello all, I don't believe I saw a thread about this particular situation so I figured I'd start a new topic.

I was injured while on a course a few years ago. I've been on a few TCATs and got a PCAT request sent to D Med Pol a few months ago, I break UoS and am high risk so they will most likely medically release me.
The problem is that my TOS (Terms of Service) might end before I even receive a medical release date... and I have already terminated my TOS instead of re-signing. 
 
I have a case manager telling me that my TOS/contract ending doesn't matter. They can extend my contract until I get my med release date. Basically, they won't let me go until I'm dealt with.

But then there's an NCO at JPSU that has told me that's not true. Once my TOS ends and if I still haven't received a medical release date, they'll just shove me out without giving me medical benefits because terminating my TOS is basically the same as VRing? I don't really understand how that could be true.

Anyway, I don't know what's true anymore and it affects my life greatly. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks!

Offline George Wallace

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 16:36:29 »
... and I have already terminated my TOS instead of re-signing. 
 

But then there's an NCO at JPSU that has told me that's not true. Once my TOS ends and if I still haven't received a medical release date, they'll just shove me out without giving me medical benefits because terminating my TOS is basically the same as VRing? I don't really understand how that could be true.



As you did not re-sign your TOS, you are voluntarily Releasing.  That part is true.

As for the Medical Release, that is for someone more knowledgeable than me in such matters to answer.  I would seriously start asking your Case Worker and your OR as to where a Medical Release process starts and how its being affected by your TOS ending.
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Offline kratz

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 17:20:11 »
You have the choice to VR at any time. By chosing not to resign, you have indicated to the CoC that you are VRing.

If you wish to make full use of medical benifits, your CoC should have recommended you sign your new TOS.

It's very straightforward. If you are in the CAF, you are covered until medically forced out released under item 3b.
If you do not sign your TOS, then you've made your choice and want to get out faster, under item 4c.
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Offline ayo23

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 17:30:55 »
Wish I wasn't misinformed before terminating.
Thanks for the replies, guys.  ;)

Offline kratz

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 17:47:38 »
There is nothing....stopping you from approaching your CoC and indicating your wish to sign the new TOS.

Read the comments on this site and you will find allot of valid advice on the pros and cons of signing your next TOS,
along with PCats and medical release.
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Offline ayo23

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2014, 18:43:26 »
Yea, I'm gonna sort it out. Thanks. :)

Offline Shamrock

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 19:22:04 »
Your notification of AR/MEL and Disclosure ought to have both informed you and your unit to ensure you had at least two years prior to your TOS expired; if it was within two years, they were to offer you renewed TOS.

Offline gryphonv

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Future 3b release
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2015, 09:39:18 »
Hello all, it's been ages since I posted on here. I've been lurking in the shadows though, reading through posts and all that fun stuff.

Just looking for some advice and insight.

I'm currently looking at a 3b release. I have a PCat request that has been sent to Ottawa in January, hopefully I will hear back before New Years.

First a short medical history, while on a QL course about 4 years ago which required us to march ( a relatively short distance) daily in parade boots, after a few weeks I started having trouble walking, and general pain in my shins. But pain would go away with rest almost as quick as it came on. After a couple more weeks I was put on a TCat because the pain had gotten to a level that was no longer tolerable, but again it would go away, just took a little longer.

The TCat also started me in physio training, originally it was assessed as calf muscles/ankles not being strong enough. I knew at the end of my course I was moving to another base, I was told at my new base to start to medical to come off the TCat if I felt I was better.

Flash forward 4 months, feeling better, not 100% more like 90%, I started the medicals and had the TCat removed.

After a few months I started having the same issues from just walking up on incline or if I go for a run. Basically any type of 'ground pounding' would cause my calf's to flare up.After a yearI was put on another TCat for physio, started investing in higher quality running shoes, etc. All of this seemed to help by slowing down the progress of the pain, but it didn't fix it, only slowed it down. I became more aware of things that would cause discomfort and avoiding doing those things as much as possible, the situation got better or more manageable. I got to a point where I felt I had it under control, and subsequently came off my TCat.

I tried to manage it, more ignoring the pain, not totally being honest with myself, and it progressed even more. I went through a set of work ups on a ship and the pain started causing me issues with sleep, my legs would throb for hours after I got off them. Also over this time I had gained a considerable amount of weight, I think 80lbs since Basic training, by me avoiding doing things that flared up the issue, I wasn't getting enough exercise.

I decided to pull the plug on me deploying because I felt I had to get this issue address (now almost 3 years since it started). I went to a few doctors, they started prescribing different anti inflammatory, which cause other issues like indigestion, one doctor told me I could take these pills to get through an upcoming deployment. My PA on the ship told me he wouldn't support me taking these pills for the whole length of deployment. I was looking at a 7-10 month deployment, even though I wanted to go I know I would be in a lot of pain during it. I decided to be asked to be landed medically. This wasn't taken lightly, and it also cause some issues with my superiors, I know some people felt I was lying about things just to get out of deploying.

I was put on a TCat which made me unemployable. I was landed to a shore unit and started going through different tests, but I haven't gotten any firm diagnosis, everything from chronic shin splints, to rheumatoid arthritis, and many other things in between. I progressed through different sets of pills, eventually I started taking Celebrex. This seemed to help, it wasn't perfect. But I was now in the mindset that what I have will never be 100%. I wanted to get  on with my career. I booked a medical to get some restrictions lifted, at my part 2 my doctor told me he felt because of the previous history to put me on a PCat, the PCat itself breaks my universality of service. That was in Jan 2015.

I currently am going to outside referral for a specialist, which also has a long waiting list, first was a 2 year waiting list, I managed to get to be seen in about 7 months. He felt I had shin splits( he called it something else but basically the same), booked a bone scan and a follow up which is almost 8 months after I originally seen him.

I've come to terms my Career with the forces is in its 11th hour, the problem is I'm looking at a release (approximately in the next year) but I am unsure if I will have a solid diagnosis before then.

I also don't have any 'ah-ha' moment that I can say I hurt myself on this day doing this. At the very most it is a repetitive strain injury, but it could also come down to something hereditary.

What type of recourse do I have if I am released without diagnosis, go through a Vocational Rehab, then 3-4 years in my new Career I find out the diagnosis? Also I am looking at releasing with just about 8 1/2 years service. I was told it would be unlikely for me to retain to 10 yrs because I don't have enough employable skills as I am a hard sea trade that can't sail.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2015, 10:05:28 »
From the 3 (b) Release Timeline thread up top, these posts may be of some help:

This is a guide that will give you an idea how long it will take to be released 3(b) medical.  Please note this is not an official document, nor are timing set in stone.  This gives you a basic idea of what your are entitled to, and who is involved.

dileas

tess


3B Medical Release Timeline.pdf

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/en/ombudsman-questions-complaints-faq/index.page

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Offline DAA

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2015, 11:19:45 »
Have you been advised of or are you currently subject to the AR MEL process?
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Offline gryphonv

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 11:50:12 »
Not Yet, I had a SCAN seminar, my file was sent up in JAN to DMED POL. That is all i got so far.

I just hate being in the dark. I've always had a 5 year plan. One issue I'm running into now is a lot of the options I'm looking at for retraining have long waiting lists, but I can't apply to one untill I know when I'm getting released.

Offline DAA

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 11:55:37 »
Not Yet, I had a SCAN seminar, my file was sent up in JAN to DMED POL. That is all i got so far.

I just hate being in the dark. I've always had a 5 year plan. One issue I'm running into now is a lot of the options I'm looking at for retraining have long waiting lists, but I can't apply to one untill I know when I'm getting released.

Once the PCAT is assigned and if you are in breach of UoS or MOS requirements, the AR MEL is usually initiated.  "Flash to Bang" for this part is around 6-8 months from the date of your last Medical.  The AR MEL message will specifically indicate that you "must" have a minimum of 24 months of service remaining and if not, new TOS is to be offered and/or DMCA is to be contacted concerning this portion of the process.

They aren't just going to up and release you with an AR MEL ongoing. 
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Offline Teager

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2015, 13:29:23 »
You should seek out the IPSC/JPSU especially if you have questions about retraining or education. They can help with a lot and give you a better idea of the whole process and your options. Don't count on the 10 years I tried to stay to 10 years but was released exactly 2 months to my 10 year mark. As DAA said you will have at least 24 months given so you might get to your 10 years.

Offline SJLPHI

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3B release, now what?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2016, 22:19:08 »
Hello, without going to too much detail I will describe my situation.

I have joined the P.Reserves back in 2008, I have been attached as Class B reservist here and there, I was injured in summer 2010, and it ended up putting a halt to my military career entirely. My plan at the time was to CP into Intel ops, through ROTP. As my physical health declined, and had 4 surgeries done, I ended up deciding to abandon ship near the end of 2012.

I have been in contact with Vet Affairs, and I was given disability lump sum from them. I was also released from P.Reserves status to S.Reserves near the end of 2015. I was then released from S.Reserves as of late summer 2016. I was contacted by the office that I was released. The following is the exact quote:
Quote
You were originally transferred to the Supp Res but due to the Admin Review was completed and therefore you were released from the Supp Res effective 08/07/2016 item 3B.  You are no longer a member of the Canadian Armed Forces.

I had this coming, I re-invested into another career. I am now a graduate student. Right now, I could use some external funding for my education. I am hearing something about a pension, after 3B release, but I found it ambiguous on what exactly is supposed to happen, from the point on from 3B release.

I would appreciate a good pointer.

-SJL

Offline mariomike

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Re: 3B release, now what?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2016, 22:26:18 »
I am hearing something about a pension, after 3B release, but I found it ambiguous on what exactly is supposed to happen, from the point on from 3B release.

Retirement allowances for 3B med rel 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=123325.0

Offline SJLPHI

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Re: 3B release, now what?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2016, 22:36:06 »
Thank you,

I will need to start looking into the case manager and sisip. Strange, I've never heard of these things before. Should I give them a call Tomorrow?

I am located in Ottawa by the way.

Offline mariomike

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Re: 3B release, now what?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2016, 22:46:26 »
Thank you,

You are welcome. Good luck.  :)

Offline SJLPHI

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Re: 3B release, now what?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2016, 23:29:05 »
Another quick question, where and how would I claim the PIL?

Offline paleomedic

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Re: 3B release, now what?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 08:49:33 »
Definitely talk to VAC. Since you've been released, you may not be able to access case management at the MIR, but VAC will be able to help you get the stuff you are entitled to.

Offline SJLPHI

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2016, 09:45:36 »
Any idea how to contact the VAC?

One of their Ottawa offices is near my place of work, but they don't take phone calls nor leave an e-mail address. I did contact SISIP, they apparently do not have me on record.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2016, 10:05:12 »
You could try your local  IPSC/JPSU for assistance in getting contact info.

You could also try the Royal Canadian Legion, as there is often assistance offered through them.
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Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline DAA

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Re: 3B release, now what?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2016, 10:35:07 »
Hello, without going to too much detail I will describe my situation.
I have joined the P.Reserves back in 2008, I have been attached as Class B reservist here and there, I was injured in summer 2010, and it ended up putting a halt to my military career entirely. My plan at the time was to CP into Intel ops, through ROTP. As my physical health declined, and had 4 surgeries done, I ended up deciding to abandon ship near the end of 2012.
I have been in contact with Vet Affairs, and I was given disability lump sum from them. I was also released from P.Reserves status to S.Reserves near the end of 2015. I was then released from S.Reserves as of late summer 2016. I was contacted by the office that I was released. The following is the exact quote:
I had this coming, I re-invested into another career. I am now a graduate student. Right now, I could use some external funding for my education. I am hearing something about a pension, after 3B release, but I found it ambiguous on what exactly is supposed to happen, from the point on from 3B release.
I would appreciate a good pointer.
-SJL

Here's some light reading for you.    http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/fac-caf/act/pa-am-eng.html

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Offline Teager

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2016, 10:51:59 »
Any idea how to contact the VAC?

One of their Ottawa offices is near my place of work, but they don't take phone calls nor leave an e-mail address. I did contact SISIP, they apparently do not have me on record.

To contact VAC you will have to go through the generic number. Explain your situation to the call analyst. 1-866-522-2122

Offline SJLPHI

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2016, 11:08:09 »
Hello,

I've recently received very thick forms regarding pensions and etc.

I'm a little bit clueless how to fill out the forms. I am also a little bit thrown off by "Pensionable years, Pensionable Income, Service years".

I've been looking at this:
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/remuneration-compensation/services-pension-services/pension/info/retr/trssamda-pnsnalty-eng.html#aa1

but I'm a little bit thrown off, what the process will be like. I am located in Ottawa, and I am trying to make time to visit local VAC to ask them. Are there any more information online that I can read?

Offline SJLPHI

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Re: 3B Med Release and TOS
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2016, 18:39:30 »
My Pension Benefit Options Statements states that I can have either Deferred Annuity or Transfer Value.

Should there be other options available?

Also, the Transfer Value is actually higher than the total amount of eligible pension for monthly annuity payments? Should that be right?