Author Topic: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory  (Read 22124 times)

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Offline Awesomedude

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Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« on: October 16, 2014, 09:01:37 »
There is a policy locally that gloves are mandatory if you are wearing a winter headdress

Is this policy written down anywhere? is this perhaps a CAF policy in a canforgen? I am having trouble finding it in the CF Dress instructions. I swear I read this somewhere and didn't think it was a unit level policy.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 16:33:22 by milnews.ca »

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 09:09:33 »
I've also heard "If it's cold enough to wear your parka, you have to wear a toque"
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline DAA

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 09:13:52 »
There is a policy locally that gloves are mandatory if you are wearing a winter headdress

Is this policy written down anywhere? is this perhaps a CAF policy in a canforgen? I am having trouble finding it in the CF Dress instructions. I swear I read this somewhere and didn't think it was a unit level policy.

Sect 2, para 21.e.  -  Gloves, Leather, Black.  Gloves leather, black are worn when ordered or as required during cold weather.

In most instances, when Winter Dress is in effect, local orders will mandate the wearing of gloves with outerwear.

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Offline Lightguns

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 09:24:32 »
It remains the funniest thing in winter to see some young soldier walking down the sidewalk wearing touque and no gloves or coat.  The winter cold provides it own jacking up!
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Offline Awesomedude

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 09:35:21 »
I agree that it might look silly,

But, toque, coat no gloves... are you out of dress?

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 09:37:20 »
 :nod:
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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 09:47:49 »
Iaw with dress regs, gloves are optional with all orders of dress except parkas, and I believe gabardine.  I have yet to see local policy, or any policy for that matter, linking toques and gloves. It seems to be one of those "rules" everyone knows but no one knows where it came from. Typically the answer given is "local unit X policy" but when you look it up, the policy is copy and pasted from dress regs.

Bottom line, there is no requirement to wear gloves with a toque or vice versa barring a specific order. It is incumbent on all parties to read local dress regs and act accordingly.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2014, 13:55:32 »
Depends on the local Base/Wing Dress Instructions.  Example, Stadacona or the dockyard, IIRC this "gloves = hat as well/vice versa" rule was in the DIs.  Navy folks also couldn't wear their NCD jackets with hat and gloves, they had to wear the black winter jacket.

Check your Base/Wing DIN site for the ones that apply to you.
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2014, 16:58:46 »
Depends on the local Base/Wing Dress Instructions.  Example, Stadacona or the dockyard, IIRC this "gloves = hat as well/vice versa" rule was in the DIs.  Navy folks also couldn't wear their NCD jackets with hat and gloves, they had to wear the black winter jacket.

Check your Base/Wing DIN site for the ones that apply to you.
I obviously can't speak for every base and local dress policy changes fairly often. That's why reading the policy is so important. I have found navy bases to be really good at keeping dress policy up to date.

Offline DAA

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2014, 17:04:23 »
I can remember back in the late 80's early 90's heading over to the Mess Hall for lunch during the winter.  Turning the corner and going through the front door, only to find the Base CWO standing there, note pad in hand.  "Where's your gloves and why aren't you wearing them?"     :o
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Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2014, 17:22:42 »
Wear whatever the RSM is wearing and you can't go wrong.  Quit wasting your time thinking and trying to change policy.  Become an RSM and then change it.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2014, 17:41:37 »
It remains the funniest thing in winter to see some young soldier walking down the sidewalk wearing touque and no gloves or coat.  The winter cold provides it own jacking up!

I just wear my beret during the winter so I can pretend it's still summer!  If you say it enough times it has to be true! Right?   ;D

Besides, our toques look like the one my grandmother knitted me when I was a small boy.... looking good is half the battle  ;D

In all serious though GnyHwy provides the best response to your dilemma, just wear what the RSM wears and you can't go wrong.  If you still don't like it, wait until you become the RSM and change it.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2014, 18:34:54 »
Wear whatever the RSM is wearing and you can't go wrong.  Quit wasting your time thinking and trying to change policy.  Become an RSM and then change it.
My point wasn't about changing policy, it was about following policy. Or more specifically enforcing policy, not what you think is policy. If you are in a position to demand a certain dress, take 10 minutes and update the policy.

Why get upset because some troop has actually taken the time to read orders (like he is supposed to) and brings it up? I've never understood that. I like to be right as much or more than the next guy but if you can prove you are right, I've learned something and can either adjust my future actions or take the appropriate steps to correct the error.

In today's military, every no hook private has immediate access to every policy or regulation. If you are in a position to enforce said policy, know it. If you don't, that private might and be willing to stand behind it, forcing everyone into a situation they would rather avoid.

Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2014, 20:19:26 »
You're not going to find the policy.  The policy can change daily.  It cannot be a CAF policy, simply because we have far too many different climates.  What is good for Esquimalt certainly wouldn't be good for Winnipeg and what is good for southern Ontario won't be good for Gagetown and so on...

If it is cold enough to warrant a toque, then it is cold enough to wear gloves.

It is also a personality thing.  Some RSMs are extremely sticky and have multiple pet peeves and some others don't put much weight on it.  It's not something you can control or predict, and it's not worth worrying about.

If you get crap for your dress, say yes Sir and move on; and don't repeat the mistake.

Or more specifically enforcing policy, not what you think is policy.


That will always be a Comd's prerogative, enforced by the RSM.  He can have you wearing rubber gumbies, snowshoes and a helmet if he wants.

This reminds of this. http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/05/sergeant-major-chandler-you-know-what-frig-it-everyones-gonna-wear-three-reflective-belts-during-pt/#ixzz3GS2Gw5lF

 
Quote
The following is an opinion piece by Sergeant Major of the Army Raymond F. Chandler III.

You know what soldiers? I’m sick and tired of this crap.

You want to keep complaining about having to wear reflective belts? You don’t like that you have to wear the thing in Afghanistan in the middle of a combat zone? It’s not ‘cool’ to have to put that on your uniform, you say.

Well, you know what? Screw it. Everyone’s going to wear three of the flippin’ things at all times.

Yeah, you heard me. Three.

Goddamn it, these things are saving your worthless little lives.

Oh, how are you supposed to wear three reflective belts, you ask. Well, first off, I’m a Sergeant Major, so I don’t need to answer any of your questions. Second, how about you figure that stuff out yourselves? You can adapt on the battlefield, now you need to adapt with a reflective piece of plastic that keeps you from getting flattened like a goddamn pancake when a Humvee rolls by.

Don’t think it could happen? Think again.

Bagram Air Field, 2004. Soldiers just walking around, lollygagging, thinking they’re back on the block. BOOM. No reflective belt. Dead. Saw it happen, it was terrible. But you know what, with his last dying breath, that soldier told me, “Sergeant Major, if only I had been wearing my reflective belt, I would be alive. Please tell my mother I—, no, tell the other soldiers they need to be safe with reflective belts on at all times.”

Well, I’m granting that dying wish right now. You troops are going to wear your reflective belts everywhere. I don’t care whether you are doing PT, in your dress uniform, or out at the bar drinking and trying to score some late-night action, you’re going to have “three of your PPE” [personal protective equipment] around your bodies at all times.

Ok, good,  you want to keep complaining?

We’re wearing four of the goddamn things. I can go all day, soldiers. Don’t push me. If they can’t see our 0500 PT formation from the flipping Space Station, that’s a no-go. Hooah?

If I keep hearing complaints or seeing any more bull crap about how you don’t like your reflective belt — so help me. If you like the Multicam uniform, you just wait until me and the General testify before congress for the new and improved Multireflect uniform.

Don’t make me do it, soldiers.

Right now, go grab your reflective belts, and put them on. You’ll thank me later.

You heard me. Five of them.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2014, 21:49:26 »
There is normally a written dress policy for every level above the unit level. I have found it at every base and unit I have been in. It's typically copy and pasted from the dress manual but occasionally some things are changed.  It is one of the things I always check upon posting to a new area. Typically it can be found as a separate document on the base CWO webpage or it may be in standing orders. Yes, I am the nerd who actually reads that stuff.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 23:30:44 »
I'm pretty sure that this issue qualifies as one of those 'Rich North' problems, right?  ;D
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Offline Towards_the_gap

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2014, 09:22:55 »
I wonder if ISIS/ISIL/ISLAMIC STATE/BOGEYMEN DU JOUR have their equivalent of an Int Analyst (mujahid of the crystal ball???) persuing this forum, and reporting back to his boss that 'I don't think we have to worry about these frozen infidels, they are too busy yelling at each other about when it is appropriate to wear gloves'.


Offline George Wallace

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2014, 09:42:59 »
I wonder if ISIS/ISIL/ISLAMIC STATE/BOGEYMEN DU JOUR have their equivalent of an Int Analyst (mujahid of the crystal ball???) persuing this forum, and reporting back to his boss that 'I don't think we have to worry about these frozen infidels, they are too busy yelling at each other about when it is appropriate to wear gloves'.

They have their own "Dress and Deportment" problems.  Is it beards on or beards off?  Is it masked face or unmasked?  Does this Black match my eyes?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque manditory
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2014, 20:15:25 »
Besides, our toques look like the one my grandmother knitted me when I was a small boy.... looking good is half the battle  ;D

Then you should come over to the RCAF.  We just got issued new toques/balaclavas/neck gaiters...all nice pieces of kit.  AFAIK, the new issue stuff is for wear in op dress, with the old style still the DEU toque.

But, the new toque sure is comfy.  Is OVOTP still open this FY?   ;D
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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2014, 13:56:00 »
They have their own "Dress and Deportment" problems.  Is it beards on or beards off?  Is it masked face or unmasked?  Does this Black match my eyes heart?
FTFY
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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2014, 15:45:02 »
I can remember back in the late 80's early 90's heading over to the Mess Hall for lunch during the winter.  Turning the corner and going through the front door, only to find the Base CWO standing there, note pad in hand.  "Where's your gloves and why aren't you wearing them?"     :o

The RCN Chiefs will coordinate a morning, lunch or secure and still do the same thing
at all main points are the Formation, a few times each year.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2014, 15:59:01 »
I don't want to blow anyones mind but in Petawawa you can wear a toque and gloves with no jacket. Or just a toque, no gloves or jacket.

You can even wear.......your goretext rain jacket with snug pack softie underneath in the winter.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 16:43:13 by ObedientiaZelum »
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2014, 16:23:23 »
Who are you and what have you done to The RCR?
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2014, 19:00:54 »
There were some people from (insert name of non existent unit from an invisible building here ) using the shoot house in Pet last week.  I understand they're special, but these guys deserved their own Olympics kind of special.  Not one looked like any other one, and apparently the hardest part of selection for these dudes is passing the "not able to take a step without your hands stuffed in your pockets" test.  I'm no parade square soldier for sure, but these people had scruffy down to an art form, and those were just the women, the dudes were much worse.  Not in my day, harrumph!
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Monsoon

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Re: Wearing gloves with touque mandatory
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2014, 19:52:51 »
Not one looked like any other one, and apparently the hardest part of selection for these dudes is passing the "not able to take a step without your hands stuffed in your pockets" test.  I'm no parade square soldier for sure, but these people had scruffy down to an art form, and those were just the women, the dudes were much worse.
And yet, surprisingly good at shooting things. Clearly their priorities aren't in the right place.