Author Topic: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy  (Read 112000 times)

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Offline Pat in Halifax

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RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« on: December 12, 2014, 15:09:31 »
We all saw this coming and it sure as hell was NOT just someone on the WHITEHORSE at fault:


http://globalnews.ca/news/1723809/royal-canadian-navy-bans-alcohol-at-sea/
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Offline MeanJean

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Royal Canadian Navy’s alcohol policy to change
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2014, 15:12:43 »
Not a surprise.  Unfortunately.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1723809/royal-canadian-navy-bans-alcohol-at-sea/




[Edited in accordance to our rules reference the publishing of a certain person's articles]
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 15:25:06 by George Wallace »
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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Royal Canadian Navy’s alcohol policy to change
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2014, 15:20:15 »
What, it's not the restoration of the traditional pre-Unification daily tot of rum? But the Royal Canadian Navy of the First World War and the Second World War won their honours with that daily tot.

Offline MCG

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Re: Implications of new Conduct Policy
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2014, 15:24:55 »
Quote
A review, released Friday by the fleet’s top commander, recommends the navy develop a strictly enforced code of conduct in addition to increasing the shipboard price of alcohol and consider banning any consumption while ships are at sea, unless there are special events.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/12/canada-is-making-it-harder-and-more-expensive-for-its-sailors-to-get-drunk/

How low is the price of alcohol that it contributes to the problem?  Are all drinks duty free at sea?

Offline GK .Dundas

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Re: Royal Canadian Navy’s alcohol policy to change
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2014, 15:27:37 »
 Jeebus ! Overreact much? I'm surprised they don't just handcuff people to their bunks while in port .
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Offline Occam

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Re: Royal Canadian Navy’s alcohol policy to change
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2014, 15:33:43 »
Bunks will be the next target.  Back to hammocks.

Offline Occam

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Re: Implications of new Conduct Policy
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2014, 15:35:13 »
How low is the price of alcohol that it contributes to the problem?  Are all drinks duty free at sea?

They were duty-free at all times, including in home port.  Not anymore.

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Royal Canadian Navy’s alcohol policy to change
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2014, 15:39:19 »
Info machine version:
Quote
Today, the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) announced the key findings and recommendations of the internal review on personal conduct within the institution. The vast majority of sailors conduct themselves appropriately and while the RCN is already well-supported by policies and procedures, there is a need for more exacting guidance from leadership, the internal review has found.

The review, led by Commodore Craig Baines, Commander Canadian Fleet Atlantic, was tasked to assess whether the RCN has the appropriate mechanisms in place and to ensure that clear expectations and direction regarding personal conduct are understood and enforced. Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, Commander RCN and Convening Authority for the Internal Review, has approved the review’s findings and recommendations.

Quick Facts
Further to the main findings, the review also concluded that “deck-plate leadership” throughout the RCN must continue to actively communicate, educate, mentor, and serve as models of proper conduct. This is the first and most important step to show sailors what “right looks like.”
The report acknowledges that the RCN, as a national institution, enjoys a tremendous reputation for excellence at sea and it is clear that the vast majority of its officers and sailors know and understand how to represent their country, service and ships.
To address the shortcomings identified by the report, the RCN is actively developing additional measures to better inform its personnel and communicate expectations linked to acceptable behaviour and conduct.
The RCN recognizes that, ultimately, the subject of conduct is a leadership issue that must be tackled at all levels of the RCN chain of command. RCN leaders must continue to actively encourage personnel under their supervision to pursue and adopt a more healthy and balanced lifestyle. These measures will be supported through enhanced training, education and counselling. Existing course modules and training plans regarding personal conduct will be further developed and taught at all levels of training, and to all ranks throughout the course of one’s career.
In addition to the measures outlined above, the RCN will also modernize its alcohol policy and bring further limitations to an existing set of strict rules regarding alcohol consumption on board Canadian warships.
The RCN encourages and promotes a healthy, addiction-free lifestyle and working environment. RCN personnel must strive to adopt this healthy lifestyle and to conduct itself in a way that, at all times, supports the RCN’s core value of being ready for service, and of serving Canada before self, which is defined by the “Ready Aye Ready” attitude ....
"Executive Summary: Internal Review of Personal Conduct" accessible here
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2014, 16:40:31 »
So, overall there was a leadership failure on ships (or there would not have been a problem, right?).

So, instead of handling it as a leadership failure, remove the beer machines.

Still leaves the same weak leadership in place doesn't it?  Doesn't say much for the RCNs faith in ships Captains and Coxswains.  IMO.
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Offline cupper

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2014, 16:42:38 »
I guess that the higher ups figured this is why the Navy can't have nice things.

I'm surprised that with the push to make all the old things new again, they didn't bring back the old system of punishments like keel hauling, or a taste of the cat.
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2014, 17:16:04 »
The Navy is in a sad state of affairs if alcohol consumption aboard ships underway is the only thing holding it together.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2014, 17:20:04 »
The Navy is over. :salute:

Its funny you say that, my FB and twitter feeds are filled with fellow matelots decrying the move and saying they are done, time to VR.

It will be interesting see if, in 6 months time from now, it actually had an effect on retention or if it was just a knee-jerk reaction in response to a knee-jerk reaction.

I wonder if soup at 10 and free lunch is going to disappear too ?
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2014, 17:22:45 »
The Navy is in a sad state of affairs if alcohol consumption aboard ships underway is the only thing holding it together.

No but just one more thing to be pissed off at. I generally don't drink at sea and but I would like the option to have a beer with my meal if I so choose. I can't see what raising bar prices alongside is going to do to curb consumption, people will pay the money and lots of profits will be made.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2014, 17:23:48 »
Its funny you say that, my FB and twitter feeds are filled with fellow matelots decrying the move and saying they are done, time to VR.

It will be interesting see if, in 6 months time from now, it actually had an effect on retention or if it was just a knee-jerk reaction in response to a knee-jerk reaction.

I wonder if soup at 10 and free lunch is going to disappear too ?

No but free meals at lunch is being looked at.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2014, 17:24:26 »
Anyone have access to the navgen?
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2014, 17:42:31 »
No but just one more thing to be pissed off at. I generally don't drink at sea and but I would like the option to have a beer with my meal if I so choose. I can't see what raising bar prices alongside is going to do to curb consumption, people will pay the money and lots of profits will be made.

The Army did away with beer with meals in the mid '70's.  Would this indicate that the Navy is five decades behind/ ?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 18:01:30 by George Wallace »
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2014, 17:44:07 »
The Army did away with beer with meals in the mid '70's.  Would this indicate that the Navy is five decades behind/

George not with all meals, just with my steak and lobster on Thursday's. ;D
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2014, 17:47:01 »
No but just one more thing to be pissed off at. I generally don't drink at sea and but I would like the option to have a beer with my meal if I so choose. I can't see what raising bar prices alongside is going to do to curb consumption, people will pay the money and lots of profits will be made.
Maybe, maybe not.  There might be some unintended consequences in foreign ports where sailors who might have stayed on board to drink for the prices and safety etc will instead perhaps go ashore and get into who knows what as the Yanks find whenever they hit port.  Or who knows what else might crop up to take the place of a wet or two?  The Brass might rue this day down the road somewhere.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2014, 17:52:49 »
George not with all meals, just with my steak and lobster on Thursday's. ;D

That's OK.   ;D

Not too many here remember the beer machines we used to have in the Mess Halls, so you won't hear many complaints from the Army side.  The Rum Ration is such a rarity these days, many haven't seen it either (Just those crusty old Sgt Majors  >:D ).   

I have seen more problems (alcohol abuse) crop up with the restricting of alcohol, than when regulations held personnel responsible for their actions and did not treat them like little children.
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2014, 17:56:21 »
That's OK.   ;D

Not too many here remember the beer machines we used to have in the Mess Halls, so you won't hear many complaints from the Army side.  The Rum Ration is such a rarity these days, many haven't seen it either (Just those crusty old Sgt Majors  >:D ).   

I have seen more problems (alcohol abuse) crop up with the restricting of alcohol, than when regulations held personnel responsible for their actions and did not treat them like little children.

Honestly George, I think the total ban at sea will increase instances of binge drinking as seen in other dry navies. The problem here is the lack of leadership and looking after ones winger to keep him out of the ****. I think we lost that and this is the result.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2014, 18:09:36 »
Honestly George, I think the total ban at sea will increase instances of binge drinking as seen in other dry navies. The problem here is the lack of leadership and looking after ones winger to keep him out of the ****. I think we lost that and this is the result.

I agree.  I have already seen that in the Army as far back as the '80's, with ALL ranks.  Once you start treating the troops, of all ranks, like children, they start to behave like children when the strings are loosened. 

Two things come to mind:
1.  The alcoholic will always find a way to find their booze.  There are programs and regulations in place to treat this problem. 
2.  When you treat all the troops like children, and then give them down time; a long weekend on an Army Exercise or a port call in the Navy, you will see them behave like children in a candy store.   
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2014, 18:14:50 »
Honestly George, I think the total ban at sea will increase instances of binge drinking as seen in other dry navies. The problem here is the lack of leadership and looking after ones winger to keep him out of the ****. I think we lost that and this is the result.
It's just window dressing; virtually no one was drinking at sea to begin with, except at banyans already approved by the COs. Certainly none of the incidents cited as prompting this review had anything to do with drinking at sea (WHITEHORSE or any of the many more egregious cases).

The real substantive change was alluded to only briefly in the summary - a so-called "First Night Protocol". There's no explanation of what that means, but at first glance it would seem to suggest some sort of plan to deal with first nights alongside in foreign ports (i.e. confine everyone onboard, give them a beer, a movie and a solid night's sleep before letting them hit the town the next day). If that's the case, it'll be interesting to see if the "protocol" will involve extending foreign ports on deployment by a day to make up for the lost liberty time. Somehow, I suspect not.

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2014, 18:32:43 »
No but just one more thing to be pissed off at.
 

And that, is something the organization doesn't need at this time either.  They keep twisting tails and the bleed will turn into a bleed out with people they can't afford at either end of the scale.  Lots of kids getting fed up as well as those of us who are 10/30.  They seem to be hell bent on extracting every ounce of enjoyment that was to be found in the Navy these past few years.  I've had a belly full of the cut here and there.  They don't seem to give a shyte anyhow, at least from where I view things.

Offline NavyShooter

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2014, 20:35:08 »
Interesting developments, and some interesting discussion on the ship about it today.

Concern over the 'first night in' when visiting foreign ports, discussion about pricing, the 'what next' factor, the inevitable discussions about straw and camels.

I have my doubts that this will result in a cascade of release or CT's.   Folks will get up in arms, grumble, and then realize that we're actually paid pretty well for what we do.  Think back to when smokes went from duty-free prices to regular prices....and when smoking was banned inside the ship....did some people pull pin and get out?  For sure.   Not a lot, and I suspect that's what we'll see here.

When I was interviewed for the Formation MS position in 2007, a point similar to this came up, so this has been in the wings for a long time, perhaps the Whitehorse incident was the trigger, but the gun was already loaded.

NS
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Offline NavalMoose

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Re: RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2014, 20:47:08 »
They're still wankers for doing it