Author Topic: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)  (Read 52230 times)

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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Hopefully they provided some effective advice and assistance in the form of .50 Cal HMG.

Yes....my favorite MG.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 19:17:07 »
Yes....my favorite MG.

Which sadly is on the way out of the system.
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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 19:17:55 »
Again you mean.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2015, 10:20:58 »
Now that the "war" is over they can get rid of that time consuming stuff and get back to parade squaring bashing  8)

Mortars, HMG's , Howitzers. It's not like we will ever fight a near peer enemy again, unless of course we bump into some "polite green men" or "Russian tourists" in Eastern Europe. 

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2015, 10:52:50 »
Which sadly is on the way out of the system.

Funny enough I had a few drinks with a guy who is/was involved in this move.  He was very saddened about it and even when so far as to say the Army will again have to call on the Navy to reteach its operation when it is inevitably brought back into service again.

He was an MWO Weapons Tech Land and if my Wisers fogged memory is correct he was the LCMM for MGs.
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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2015, 18:23:26 »
The Army has no one to blame but themselves.  At least CANSOF and the RCAF are keeping Ma Deuce.  :salute:

G2G

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2015, 20:26:51 »
At least CANSOF and the RCAF are keeping Ma Deuce.  :salute:

G2G

RCAF ???
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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2015, 20:57:35 »
The Army has no one to blame but themselves.  At least CANSOF and the RCAF are keeping Ma Deuce.  :salute:

G2G

I don't expect the RCN will get rid of it soon either.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2015, 21:18:03 »
RCAF ???

Griffon and/or Chinook comes to mind.
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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2015, 21:25:48 »
I don't expect the RCN will get rid of it soon either.

Good point, JJT.  I update my previous statement..EVERY operational CAF service EXCEPT the Army...  :not-again:

Offline Rider Pride

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2015, 23:39:23 »
Good point, JJT.  I update my previous statement..EVERY operational CAF service EXCEPT the Army...  :not-again:

Did you mean, "every CAF service except the Army is operational"?
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2015, 01:08:52 »
The Army has no one to blame but themselves.  At least CANSOF and the RCAF are keeping Ma Deuce.  :salute:

G2G

I'd like to know who,and how that decision was made.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2015, 08:36:05 »
Probably some bean counter in Ottawa that figured its cheaper to retire the weapon than spend the money to upgrade the ranges where soldiers can train with them. ;)

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2015, 09:22:18 »
Probably some bean counter in Ottawa that figured its cheaper to retire the weapon than spend the money to upgrade the ranges where soldiers can train with them. ;)

Who knows for sure, but I've heard the .50 became "redundant" once the 25 mm on the LAV came into play.

I don't know about any of you.....but I'm not sold on that.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2015, 09:26:34 »
Who knows for sure, but I've heard the .50 became "redundant" once the 25 mm on the LAV came into play.

I don't know about any of you.....but I'm not sold on that.

Although the .50 is rather heavy, it still is "man-portable".  The 25 mm is not. 
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Offline Sigs Pig

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2015, 09:54:09 »
I know it is waaaay off the subject, but just following this interesting thread.
Found on the 'net:
"General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, Inc., Williston, Vt., was awarded a $255,486,000 firm-fixed-price contract to support the program manager, crew served weapons, which has a requirement to satisfy the M2A1 quick change barrel (QCB) kit requirement for the Army and other services. This contracting effort procures the additional M2A1 QCB kits for the continued fielding of the M2A1 weapon, and to replace already fielded M2s with the new M2A1 configuration. Funding and performance location will be determined with each order. The contract was solicited via the Web with eight bids received. The U.S. Army Contracting Command – Picatinny Arsenal, Picatinny Arsenal, N.J. is the contracting activity (W15QKN-13-D-0107)."

ME
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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2015, 13:31:35 »
I'd like to know who,and how that decision was made.

Was made by a person who never was, nor ever will, be an end user...I seem to remember reading somewhere about how the Brits were freaking out during the Falklands War because they had withdrawn the .50's from Army service, and now realized there was in fact a role for them and hurriedly brought some back into service.  Problem was, there were very few instructors alive/serving with the know how to teach people how to use them. 

Sounds familiar?   ;D

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2015, 13:36:58 »
Was made by a person who never was, nor ever will, be an end user...

Such a common theme in the CAF for the last two or three decades.  Goes right up to to the construction of facilities for troops or equipment.  (Memories of a tank hangar being constructed in Pet (1994), where the foundation being laid clearly indicated that the doors would not be large enough to allow a tank to pass through; and proven as such once hangar was built.  Someone, not an end user, found a way to cut costs by reducing the size of the doors.)
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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2015, 13:44:27 »
Such a common theme in the CAF for the last two or three decades.  Goes right up to to the construction of facilities for troops or equipment.  (Memories of a tank hangar being constructed in Pet (1994), where the foundation being laid clearly indicated that the doors would not be large enough to allow a tank to pass through; and proven as such once hangar was built.  Someone, not an end user, found a way to cut costs by reducing the size of the doors.)

So many dolts, not enough live ammo...and incidentally there isn't enough live ammo to make sure our weapons are zeroed, much less to cull the dolts off.

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2015, 14:14:49 »
Although the .50 is rather heavy, it still is "man-portable".  The 25 mm is not.

Its 128 pounds, not including ammo.

In order to "man pack" it you need to break it down into its three groups: Barrel, receiver group and tripod.

Then the ammo - you need ammo bearers.

It's not easy, but we did it in 1979 in Charlie Coy 1 VP. Yes, the earth had cooled by then.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 14:20:17 »
The British Army magically reintroduced the 50 cal in 1983, right after the Argies reminded them (the hard way) that it's a pretty good gun to have on your side.

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 14:22:40 »
Its 128 pounds, not including ammo.

In order to "man pack" it you need to break it down into its three groups: Barrel, receiver group and tripod.

Then the ammo - you need ammo bearers.

It's not easy, but we did it in 1979 in Charlie Coy 1 VP. Yes, the earth had cooled by then.

So, the last ice age is your fault.  Where's the global cooling now that we really need it?

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2015, 14:24:11 »
So, the last ice age is your fault.  Where's the global cooling now that we really need it?

-25 C here. Cooling is not an issue here. Keeping warm is.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: The Cdn Army does not need HMGs (From: CANSOF vs. Boko Haram)
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2015, 14:33:20 »
Its 128 pounds, not including ammo.

In order to "man pack" it you need to break it down into its three groups: Barrel, receiver group and tripod.

Then the ammo - you need ammo bearers.

It's not easy, but we did it in 1979 in Charlie Coy 1 VP. Yes, the earth had cooled by then.

.....and it has a Tripod or AA mount that it can be mounted on.

Now.....Try breaking down a M245 25 mm Chaingun, take it out of the turret and hump it off to a trench somewhere................and find a ground mount of any sort to hold it.   (Realistically) Not going to happen.
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