Author Topic: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS  (Read 443159 times)

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Offline Underway

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1625 on: November 11, 2018, 15:16:55 »
According to this site: https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/harry-dewolf-class-offshore-patrol-vessel-canada/ the Harry DeWolf class will have a TRS-3D/16ES radar in conjunction with the S and X band navigation radars.

US Legend class coast guard cutters use it among others (interestingly the Svalbard uses one as well).  It does air and surface search and can support naval gunfire, carry an IFF etc...

It's a fairly robust and reliable system by all accounts.


Proven wrong... see below!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 17:20:20 by Underway »

Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1626 on: November 11, 2018, 16:12:27 »
That’s interesting. I thought it was supposed to be a Terma Scanter 6002. I was under the impression that it was going to be part of the scaled down CMS package?

Offline calculus

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Online Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1629 on: December 02, 2018, 22:33:00 »
Not being a naval expert, but a 25mm gun can take these on right?


Offline Underway

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1630 on: December 02, 2018, 23:27:46 »
Nope but these should be able too...



And these are pretty good...


Offline Dimsum

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1631 on: December 03, 2018, 00:02:10 »
Other nations would use these too, but not us  ::)

Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1632 on: December 03, 2018, 04:20:43 »
Also I should mention they are being used as a feeder for the AOPS, as the ship has diesel electric propulsion system. many of the Harry DeWolf crew are currently on the Kingston Class.

It’s also likely that the CSC will have a diesel electric plant, as well, so I’d imagine that training will be applicable with them too, to a certain degree.

Online Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1633 on: December 03, 2018, 10:45:12 »
Nope but these should be able too...



And these are pretty good...



I am sure our AF guys practice with our stock of AS missiles all the time.......

I would think it be a gusty move for a Halifax to take on a Russian Missile cruiser.

Offline Lumber

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1634 on: December 03, 2018, 11:45:43 »
I am sure our AF guys practice with our stock of AS missiles all the time.......

I would think it be a gusty move for a Halifax to take on a Russian Missile cruiser.

Well... I mean the one in front is retired, so I'm sure we'd have no problems with her.

As for the Slava behind her... yea I wouldn't want to face down a salvo of SS-N-12's. Although given their age, maybe they wouldn't be that reliable...
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Offline FSTO

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1635 on: December 03, 2018, 12:50:30 »
Well... I mean the one in front is retired, so I'm sure we'd have no problems with her.

As for the Slava behind her... yea I wouldn't want to face down a salvo of SS-N-12's. Although given their age, maybe they wouldn't be that reliable...

Hell, they didn't seem that reliable when I saw one close up in Halifax in 1992!

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1636 on: December 03, 2018, 14:53:56 »
It’s also likely that the CSC will have a diesel electric plant, as well, so I’d imagine that training will be applicable with them too, to a certain degree.

Certainly if it goes that way. The machinery control system as well.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1637 on: December 03, 2018, 14:54:45 »
Not being a naval expert, but a 25mm gun can take these on right?



I didn't know they were ice capable?
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Underway

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1638 on: December 03, 2018, 17:43:14 »
I am sure our AF guys practice with our stock of AS missiles all the time.......

I would think it be a gusty move for a Halifax to take on a Russian Missile cruiser.

Russians wouldn't even know the frigate was there until the Harpoons were detected.  At least those ships pictured wouldn't.  I'm far more concerned with Russian air and submarine assets.  Their surface fleet leaves much to be desired.

Offline LoboCanada

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1639 on: December 07, 2018, 13:15:46 »
For those who may know more than I - Would an AOPS be capable of holding a DSRV or submarine rescue vehicle?

Trying to think of scenarios where AOPS could be used in conjunction with submarines in the arctic.

Is it possible?:
- Punch holes to allow for a Victora to breathe so their range would be extended through seasonal ice, or have one follow course behind?
- Or in a sub rescue role? From guessing, it would be using the crane, but that crane would have to be quite capable to lift something submersible.
- Having a AUV/RUV sit on the flight deck for ASW? Plow a hole in the ice, drop one in for sub hunting/detection?

Offline Jokerniemi

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1640 on: December 07, 2018, 16:46:11 »
Does anyone has info about the inside of this class of ship ? I was wondering how the messes look like (is it built like fregates where you have racks or it is like our new suppliers with individual rooms with beds ?).

How about a gym space ?

Thanks

Offline Loch Sloy!

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1641 on: December 07, 2018, 17:33:04 »
Could we add something like the Spike ER to add a bit of punch? Seems like the cost and footprint are fairly modest compared to the increase in leathality...

https://www.janes.com/article/84817/philippines-navy-demos-new-spike-er-capability
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.
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Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1642 on: December 07, 2018, 17:36:00 »
Does anyone has info about the inside of this class of ship ? I was wondering how the messes look like (is it built like fregates where you have racks or it is like our new suppliers with individual rooms with beds ?).

How about a gym space ?

Thanks

The cafeteria is a combined Jr's and C & PO's. Wardroom like a CPF is one deck up. Some cabins are two man and four man. There is a 20 man mess for scientists, ERT team, Sea training etc. Yes there is a nice gym space. Its not like the Asterix.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline JMCanada

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1643 on: December 09, 2018, 10:41:55 »
It’s also likely that the CSC will have a diesel electric plant, as well, (...)

I have just realized this recently.
The diesel-electric plant on the CSC is designed to provide a low noise  print. If AOPS is not really intended for ASW ... which are the other benefits expected from the use of such plant ?

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1644 on: December 09, 2018, 10:58:58 »
I have just realized this recently.
The diesel-electric plant on the CSC is designed to provide a low noise  print. If AOPS is not really intended for ASW ... which are the other benefits expected from the use of such plant ?

They are more versatile than conventional propulsion systems. You bring on more or less diesel alternators as needed that provides power to the propulsion motors. Its also more efficient as you come down in speed you can take off diesels as needed. They are also less susceptible to damage and requires far less maintenance.
+25
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1645 on: December 09, 2018, 11:11:00 »
Electric motors are used for most icebreakers these days (and in the sense I use "icebreakers", the AOPS are such vessels) because if you get a large chunk of ice going under the hull and jamming momentarily in the propellers, you don't break the props, gears or diesel engines. An electrical motor, just like the one in the hand held fans you played with as a kid, will simply get stopped or slowed down momentarily, then pick its speed right back up without any damage. Sure, it instantaneously increases electrical resistance and causes a brown out in the electrical system - but no damage.

The same thing happening in a mechanical ship's propulsion plant would see the diesel engine trying to put out power on one side of the gearbox, with the propeller shaft being stopped by the ice on the other side: It would grind the gears.

Also, what the Chief said.

BTW, the CSC, if it follows the Type 26 pattern (and it should since Canada has specified an even higher speed) is not a "diesel-electric" propulsion system. It's will be either a CODLOG or CODLAG system, meaning electric propulsion through a normal shaft (as opposed to MCDV's for instance, which have "Z" drives) for low speed ASW and Gaz turbine for high speed. The difference between the "LOG" and "LAG" is in the first instance, it is either electric or the GT that propels the ship - but not both together, while the LAG is a combination of both working together to effect propulsion.

CODLAG has worked quite successfully on the British Type 23 frigates (DUKE class).
+25

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1646 on: December 09, 2018, 11:14:04 »
They are more versatile than conventional propulsion systems. You bring on more or less diesel alternators as needed that provides power to the propulsion motors. Its also more efficient as you come down in speed you can take off diesels as needed. They are also less susceptible to damage and requires far less maintenance.

Chief, you'll be able to answer this I am sure.

Does the CSC/Type 26 design use podded propulsors?  Not in the sense of Z-Pods but more like "compartmentalized" pods.  Just thinking about that Norwegian frigate and the comments made in the reports about her shaft and the stuffing boxes possibly contributing to the speed with which she went down.   With pods you just need to punch cables through the bulkheads - not a mechanical shaft.

Gensets and separate pods eliminate the need for those long, vulnerable shafts.

Edit:  Never mind.  OGBD to the rescue.  Thanks.
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Offline Baz

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1647 on: December 09, 2018, 14:01:51 »
...will simply get stopped or slowed down momentarily, then pick its speed right back up without any damage. Sure, it instantaneously increases electrical resistance and causes a brown out in the electrical system..

Wouldn't the back-EMF drop to zero and resistance drop to only the actually value across the coils, therefore causing the current to spike up, possibly limiting the ability of the generator to maintain the voltage, causing a brown out?

Pedantic, I know...

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1648 on: December 09, 2018, 15:19:52 »
Wouldn't the back-EMF drop to zero and resistance drop to only the actually value across the coils, therefore causing the current to spike up, possibly limiting the ability of the generator to maintain the voltage, causing a brown out?

Pedantic, I know...

I think that would depend on the quality of the soft-starter/inverter to be able to manage the variable load.  I believe that the worst case scenario would see a draw equivalent to that of the locked-rotor seen at initiation of start up.  Not an electrician but have worked with and specced more than my fair share of heavy motor / inverter combinations.
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Offline JMCanada

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1649 on: December 10, 2018, 14:15:51 »
Regarding propulsion systems, the F-110 frigate (similar to type 26) is the spanish next ASW frigate and is expected to use a CODLOG plant, but a CODLADOG plant was alternatively proposed (see picture with both options): combined diesel-electric and diesel Or Gas   :nod:

The design has been maturing for about 10 years... but the lack of funding has kept it on hold. The design AFAIK was not offered for the CSC because RCN was suppossedly asking for an off-the shelf design.

Latest rumours say they (5 units) will get funding by Dec. 28th. Considering that date is Spain's Fool's day... probably they will have to wait to 2019 to actually get the funds.  ;D

EDITED: this been said, I would bet we will see first F-110 commissioned before first CSC.
[first line also edited].
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 18:50:22 by JMCanada »