Author Topic: Replacing the Subs  (Read 6958 times)

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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2019, 18:23:24 »
but we don't have China and North Korea as neighbours

True.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2019, 18:50:58 »
The Israel subs have large tubes for launching cruise missiles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-class_submarine

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2019, 18:52:34 »
but we don't have China and North Korea as neighbours

Speaking of which, it looks like NoKo has up to 86 subs...

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/north-korea-submarine-capabilities/
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2019, 20:36:05 »
Speaking of which, it looks like NoKo has up to 86 subs...

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/north-korea-submarine-capabilities/

Yeah, but if they're super old and super loud, any ASW asset worth their salt will be able to detect and take them out pretty quick.  Also, who knows what their actual readiness status is.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2019, 21:35:14 »
You might still need 50-60 functioning torpedoes or missiles to deal with the ones that do work!
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Offline JMCanada

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2019, 02:15:56 »
The Israel subs have large tubes for launching cruise missiles.
Those are in fact a sub-class of the german type 212.

At the end of the day there are 3 possible suppliers ... for each coast:

Pacific: Japan (Soryu or SS29) South Korea and Oz (Attack- variant of french barracuda).

Atlantic: Norwegian-German type 212 CD, Sweed A26, (again a conventional version of French SSN Barracuda) and Spanish S-80 plus. Actually these four are now bidding for the Dutch tender.

Most of them (if not all) are capable to deliver missiles such as TLAM, Exocet or Harpoon.

Offline Uzlu

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2019, 07:07:11 »
At the end of the day there are 3 possible suppliers ... for each coast:

Pacific: Japan (Soryu or SS29) South Korea and Oz (Attack- variant of french barracuda).

Atlantic: Norwegian-German type 212 CD, Sweed A26, (again a conventional version of French SSN Barracuda) and Spanish S-80 plus. Actually these four are now bidding for the Dutch tender.
But will the Royal Canadian Navy be interested in the S-80 Plus?  Are you perhaps suggesting that it is a good idea to operate two types of submarines?  One type for the west coast, another type for the east coast?

Offline JMCanada

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2019, 09:48:28 »
While I personally like Soryu the most, please note that delays and cost increases are not unusual in these type of projects. And those problems are solved now (by lengthening the hull). Finally the four S80 plus are to be delivered within next decade 2022-2026) at a cost of about 1.4-1.5 billion CAD each.  Then there is time to check how good (or not) they are for the RCN requirements.

And no, I am not suggesting (in the present circumstances) to have two different types of boats. There are far more CONs than PROs.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2019, 10:23:02 »
Yeah, but if they're super old and super loud, any ASW asset worth their salt will be able to detect and take them out pretty quick.  Also, who knows what their actual readiness status is.

Yet it appears they have sunk 1 SK Patrol vessel.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2019, 11:02:47 »
The Cheonan? 

Not sure I'd use that as a testament about the capability of the DPRK sub force, honestly.  An older, cold war era corvette (she's be 30 this year).  A large % of the DPRK sub fleet are old Romeo diesel boats.  I don't think they'd last too long in a shooting war, myself.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 11:05:21 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2019, 13:50:46 »
Even an older vessel may get lucky, drift with the current into a good position, use just enough propulsion for the best firing solution, let off a spread and do your best to get out of there, dying for the Great Leader is an honour.....

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2019, 14:32:38 »
It's possible...it's less likely if you have something like a modern SSN/SSK out there with computerized SONAR, fire control, etc and well-trained crews listening/watching for that one piece of info they need to classify and they don't have to 'fire a spread' when they can put one Mk48 ADCAP, Spearfish, etc in the water.  Personally, I'm pretty impressed with the Astute class. 

I think they'll get kills in a permissible environment...for a very short time.   ;D

SSKs can definitely be lethal.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 15:03:34 by Eye In The Sky »
Everything happens for a reason.

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Offline Colin P

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2019, 18:31:06 »
I suspect our Victoria's would come back with a broom tied to the periscope if they were sent in and the NK navy/subs put to sea.