Author Topic: Seamen busted  (Read 36027 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2016, 00:54:14 »
How would taking a NCO away from their actual unit and trade be better than taking someone we pay specifically to lead PT and build personalized fitness programmes?


Because we take NCOs and other leaders away from their trade job and put them in all kinds of different jobs all the time. Officer in charge of the unit library. NCO in charge of categorizing and polishing trophies and medals. At the PRT in Afghanistan a good buddy of mine was a sgt in charge of making sure the transient quarters had fresh sheets- that's about it.

One of the mods on an up and coming NCOs PLQ is to lead a fitness session. As a whole we're trying to save money, why would we hire a civilian to do a job NCOs are supposed to do in the first place?

How many civilians does the Royal Canadian Navy have in it's employ compared to how many sailors there are?
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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2016, 01:08:58 »
Just a reminder to everyone.

Every person is assumed innocent until proven otherwise. No rumour, no speculation, no innuendo, now calls for crazy justice, etc. Keep the thread clean and factual. If you state something concerning the people involved with the incident, you had better post your 'bonafide' source along with it.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2016, 03:14:13 »
FWIW, Capt Lawson may have been questioned as a `witness`, not a suspect.  We all know the jingle about ASSUME...
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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2016, 06:54:50 »
Because we take NCOs and other leaders away from their trade job and put them in all kinds of different jobs all the time. Officer in charge of the unit library. NCO in charge of categorizing and polishing trophies and medals. At the PRT in Afghanistan a good buddy of mine was a sgt in charge of making sure the transient quarters had fresh sheets- that's about it.

One of the mods on an up and coming NCOs PLQ is to lead a fitness session. As a whole we're trying to save money, why would we hire a civilian to do a job NCOs are supposed to do in the first place?

How many civilians does the Royal Canadian Navy have in it's employ compared to how many sailors there are?

We have personnel who have the PSP course who can administer the FORCE test. The original intent was to qualify enough ships staff in order to run our own tests ashore as sometimes its problematic to arrange FORCE testing at last minute. Yes some units with the bunk space take PSP with them on lower risk deployments to improve and maintain the overall health of the sailors. We also take photo techs, PAO, Chaplains etc as well. All of which can be done as a secondary duty on a ship but just not to the same standard as a professional. As mentioned before we are sometimes secondary dutied to death and one of the reasons I suspect is why the ship took a PSP staff. As some as said on here that it should be led by our own leaders on board ship, good idea once they have the proper course to lead group PT as doing such on a unstable platform, on a watch system is not the same as doing it on a base and hence most likely why a professionally trained PSP staff was embarked.

I'm sure the military justice system will get to the bottom of this in short order and if guilty will be punished severely in due course as this sort of irresponsible actions cannot be tolerated. I find it interesting in the sense that this is actually a news story as this happens throughout the forces and often not worthy of a news story, most likely due their last names.
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2016, 07:39:43 »
FWIW, Capt Lawson may have been questioned as a `witness`, not a suspect.  We all know the jingle about ASSUME...
Also, a good time for the reminder I should have posted earlier:

According to Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, "Any person charged with an offence has the right .... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal."
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 09:28:09 by milnews.ca »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2016, 09:45:41 »
Thanks ChiefStoker (and sorry if I came across as petulant WeatherdoG) .

I don't have a very high opinion of PSP or the empire they're carving out for themselves but that's off topic.

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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2016, 10:01:05 »
Also, a good time for the reminder I should have posted earlier:

According to Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, "Any person charged with an offence has the right .... to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal."

That is true, but the two of these people were arrested in Japan. Japan's legal system seems to be very different than Canada's. A quick google search of "presumption of innocence" brings up many interesting sites and stories. For example:

This article claims that there are many false confessions,
Quote
Arrested suspects are often detained in a police “daiyo kangoku” substitute prison for up to 23 days before indictment, and release on bail is unlikely as long as they plead innocent or remain silent.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/13/national/justice-system-flawed-by-presumed-guilt/

The economist claims that nearly all accused people in Japan sign a confession, whether guilty or not.
http://www.economist.com/node/8680941

This article was good too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_Japan

I'm not saying that the Japanese system is worse than ours, just very different.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2016, 10:22:14 »
Japan's legal system seems to be very different than Canada's.

The economist claims that nearly all accused people in Japan sign a confession, whether guilty or not.
http://www.economist.com/node/8680941

This caught my eye, "...its courts convict 99.9% of all the suspects brought before them."
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 10:26:26 by mariomike »

Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2016, 10:27:47 »
This caught my eye, "...its courts convict 99.9% of all the suspects brought before them."

yes, mine too. We all know that statistics can be misleading. 

One explanation that wikipedia gives is
Quote
... possibility is that, given that the non-jury system under inquisition system has predictable ruling on guilt, Japan's understaffed prosecutors working on low budgets only bring the most obviously guilty defendants to trial, and do not file indictments in cases in which they are not certain they can win


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_Japan

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2016, 13:05:33 »
I will say, what is it about west coasters and foreign port visits making it into the press as of late....  they're killing us.

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2016, 15:00:52 »
I am not even going to dignify that with a response.

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2016, 15:12:39 »
But JJ is in the navy too
Lol
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2016, 16:18:43 »
Competition between 1 CMBG, 2 CMBG and 5 GBMC has nothing on competition between MARLANT and MARPAC.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
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Offline MCG

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2016, 16:20:09 »
Why does the navy have a civilian fitness instructor on a warship?
Because the PERI trade was eliminated years ago.

Does a civilian bartender run the mess on the ship as well?
The Steward trade exists in the CAF to do this.

Offline Occam

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2016, 20:29:14 »
The Steward trade exists in the CAF to do this.

The bars on the ship (MS & Below and C&PO's, at least) are run by volunteers.  The stewards aren't involved.

Offline NavalMoose

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2016, 20:37:43 »
Those Officers' pillows aren't going to fluff themselves after all ;D

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2016, 23:03:42 »
No steward has ever made my rack.

Ever.

That is not their job. They have other work to do.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2016, 23:45:41 »
No steward has ever made my rack.

Ever.

That is not their job. They have other work to do.

Interesting; that was an urban legend then I guess.  I heard more than a few stories about stewards being bed-makers and coffee fetchers.  Having never sailed before, I wouldn't have known the difference.
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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2016, 00:44:08 »
Stewards provide hospitality services within the Navy. However, stewards may also become a Flight Steward in the Air Force. Duties are varied and range from food and beverage services, to financial management and administration.

They may work alongside Cooks and some food preparation will comprise part of their duties. The primary responsibilities of the position are to:

Serve food and beverages on formal and informal occasions at sea and ashore as well as on board military aircraft, including VIP flights
Prepare light meals, snacks and hors-d’oeuvres on ships and aircraft
Operate military warehouses at sea and in deployed operations
Operate ship borne convenience stores
Maintain records, financial accounts and filing systems for activities relating to the use of public and non-public funds
Operate military clubs, including allocation and control of facilities, mess fund accounting, bar management and staff supervision
Manage military accommodations, including room allocation, reception, furnishings, key control, cleaning and maintenance
Provide non-public funds management on all ships
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Offline NavalMoose

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2016, 07:34:38 »
Funny, I could never find the 7-11 on any of the ships I sailed in ;D

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2016, 10:20:25 »
The problem with a drug such as cocaine, which it's been speculated was what they were arrested for, is that it leaves the body very quickly (72hrs) so it's almost impossible to catch people with drug testing.



Apparently that also accounts for the high use of crack by oil field workers as it leaves the system before they get back to camp. Pot apparently can linger on in the system for quite sometime.

Offline Pusser

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2016, 14:59:39 »
Funny, I could never find the 7-11 on any of the ships I sailed in ;D

No, but all the messes had bars and there was a canteen.  All of the warehousing, stock management, purchasing and accounting that supports the messes and canteen are performed by stewards.

Some of the above confusion can be attributed to an apparent lack of understanding that the steward's job has changed significantly in the last few years.  Stewards used to provide valet services to the officers in ships (even to the point of polishing there shoes).  However, that has all gone away.  Stewards no longer polish officers' shoes or make their beds, but they used to.
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Offline NavalMoose

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2016, 15:14:59 »
Oh I am not confused, merely trying to inject a little humour into this thread. I am well aware of what stewards used to do and do today, I spent 20 years in 2 Navies :)

Offline BlueAngels14

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2016, 15:21:52 »
This article was also on here: http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1031299&tp=1 In comparison, the CTV news article seemed to have "more".
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Seamen busted
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2016, 06:02:17 »
I am currently deployed on HMCS Fredericton.  We have a PSP fitness guru on board for the entire sail and we had the same fitness support when I deployed on Toronto in 2007 for the entire deployment.

You have to consider that a ship is run in a series of shifts and or watches.  And to accommodate a fitness routine into a ships flex is quite a feat to say the least.

Our current fitness guru runs three classes daily, as well she provides nutritional and fitness advice and coaching if time permits.  She is also involved in setting up activities and trips for the ships coy while in port and general involved in the welfare of the crew as a whole.   

I personally think she does a great job and takes a huge load off of those us who are BFTA/AFTA qualified.  We also dont tend to have many BFTA/AFTA qualified persons on board as it is not a well known course in the RCN.  I didnt hear about it or complete until I was posted to CFJSR.

I like having the PSP guru and I hope we continue to draw on this resource.  And from the numbers I see at PT classes I think most of the crew would agree.   

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