Author Topic: C3 Howitzer Replacement  (Read 81690 times)

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Offline MattGotts

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C3 Howitzer Replacement
« on: March 10, 2016, 23:22:06 »
Hello Comrades,

Aside from some soldiers being equipped with brown boots, tan boots, swat boots, or no boots, I've seen that equipment and supply in the army can be somewhat ....difficult..

Boots aside, I've also heard the rumours that the C3 Howitzer, the loveable beast of the mo's, has no scheduled replacement. Through a few semi-annual pow-wows with leadership, I've heard: Reserve Artillery units could get 120 mm mortars (hah), converted to just 81 mm, have the 81 mm given back to the infantry, have no replacement at all and only be trained on the M777 to augment the Reg Force, as well as infinite other delicious yet farcical rumours, not to mention what the East is going to do with their LG1's.

What have you other Gunners been hearing? I haven't heard much out West.
Ubique!

Offline Colin P

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 10:20:57 »
This issue has been discussed here a fair bit, nothing solid in the works, the ideas kicked around are the 120mm, 81mm and the South African 105mm which is quite a nice gun and one of the people here did a on hands review of it as I recall. South Korea still has a fair number of the original 105mm howitzer, we could likely pick them up cheap. Wiki claims they have 1,000 in storage. considering all the things we need to fix right now, this is likely the cheapest and fastest way to go. Plus the job of refurbishing them could be done here in Canada. A quick scan of Wiki shows about 19 Reserve Artillery regiments and independent batteries, which works out 114 Howitzers for a 6 gun battery, if we bought 150-200 of them we could re-equip and have spares, with no changes to our training or our ammunition supply. The Won seems a good exchange against the Cdn$ as well.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Republic_of_Korea_Army#Field_artillery
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 14:43:35 by Colin P »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 10:31:12 »
As an infantry guy, is it OK if my vote goes to MLRS? :)
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Offline Colin P

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 10:50:29 »
oh that's so warlike....You might upset our current masters. At least these howitzers would only be for "training and peacekeeping"  8)

Offline Loachman

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 11:05:43 »
One can keep a lot of peace with an MLRS...

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 11:20:41 »
oh that's so warlike....You might upset our current masters. At least these howitzers would only be for "training and peacekeeping"  8)

You forgot "snow clearing in the Rockies".  [:-[

Offline Loachman

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 11:22:54 »
One can clear a lot of snow with an MLRS...

Offline RCPalmer

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2016, 11:54:06 »
I'm glad to hear that there is at least talk of a replacement in the Arty community (which is not to say a replacement will materialize...).  I would also be curious to know how any acquisition would tie in with the equipment allocations for the RegF Arty Regiments. As far as I know (and correct me if I am wrong), there aren't enough M777s out there to equip every RegF battery, so perhaps we could revitalize our indirect fire capabilities with one smart purchase?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2016, 12:14:51 »
Those with DWAN access can go to the Capability Investment Database (CID) and look up "Indirect Fire Modernization" to get a sense of current Army thinking. 
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline MilEME09

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 12:49:26 »
Ive seen pictures of m777 conversion courses for the PRes on the army facebook page. A sign of things to come?
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Offline jeffb

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2016, 13:15:16 »
The M777 conversion course is nothing sinister. Under Artillery Transformation, each gun Battery has two guns that are manned by PRes (on paper at least). The M777 conversion courses currently being run in 4 Div are simply to set the conditions for PRes pers to make up gun dets on the road to high readiness next year as part of Op REINFORCEMENT.

With respect to the MLRS, there's been talk of HIMARS for the Artillery for some time now but I can't imagine any scenario in which it would go the PRes. 
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2016, 13:20:50 »
The M777 conversion course is nothing sinister. Under Artillery Transformation, each gun Battery has two guns that are manned by PRes (on paper at least). The M777 conversion courses currently being run in 4 Div are simply to set the conditions for PRes pers to make up gun dets on the road to high readiness next year as part of Op REINFORCEMENT.

With respect to the MLRS, there's been talk of HIMARS for the Artillery for some time now but I can't imagine any scenario in which it would go the PRes.

I believe the intent is still to replace the 105's with 120mm mortars for the reg/reserve. As of the last we were briefed the key hold up on that plan was honourary colonels and ceremonial openings for parliaments (provincial and federal).

As for HIMARS, there is currently no intent on procurement of that system. If it were procured it would go to 4 Arty Regt and definately not to the reserves.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2016, 13:42:44 »
One can keep a lot of peace with an MLRS...

Yes!

We could stuff them with leaflets! (that are not infected with weaponized biological agents ;) )
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2016, 14:38:08 »
Additional benefits of the MLRS

Air transportable - meaning you can get it where it needs to be
Standoff distances of 70 to 300 km - meaning you can be in the next country over
Mobile - meaning that when detected you can relocate in a hurry
Armoured cab - meaning that if hit survival is improved
Small crew - meaning few heroes for the highway

It isn't an F35.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Arty39

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2016, 17:39:57 »
Additional benefits of the MLRS

Air transportable - meaning you can get it where it needs to be
Standoff distances of 70 to 300 km - meaning you can be in the next country over
Mobile - meaning that when detected you can relocate in a hurry
Armoured cab - meaning that if hit survival is improved
Small crew - meaning few heroes for the highway

It isn't an F35.
Can level and entire grid square in one f/m.

Offline medicineman

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2016, 20:57:28 »
If PET Jr is anything like his dad, I'm thinking something like these may be the replacements.
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline cupper

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2016, 21:48:51 »
We should really be looking at the more high tech options for today's modern battlefield.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2016, 22:11:41 »
We should really be looking at the more high tech options for today's modern battlefield.

And it should be cheap too.  Just think of all that hemp rope that will be available as a by-product after marijuana is legalized.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2016, 00:01:18 »
I lucking fove trebuchets.

I built a couple of tiny ones years ago, and yearn to build one capable of hurling flaming toilet bowls into the night sky.

if there is peace, snow, or a Liberal wherever those flaming toilet bowls land, well, bonus!!!

Offline Colin P

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2016, 00:13:41 »
My friend built a 9-10' high one (to the arm vertical) we set it up on Spanish Banks and started flinging rocks into the water, a bylaw office came by sputtering about our "catapult" upon which several people watching corrected him and then we asked which bylaw we were breaking, apparently city council neglected to ban siege weapons on the beach.


meanwhile speaking of MRLS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwET4BnP-fA

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2016, 00:23:25 »
We should really be looking at the more high tech options for today's modern battlefield.

If adopted, it would be the only EMP-proof indirect fire support asset in our arsenal.
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Offline medicineman

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2016, 01:01:24 »
If adopted, it would be the only EMP-proof indirect fire support asset in our arsenal.

Have to use signal flags and semaphore to send back fire corrections though...unless using tracers such as Loachman suggested.

MM
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Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2016, 11:36:29 »
Have to use signal flags and semaphore to send back fire corrections though...unless using tracers such as Loachman suggested.

MM

We'll have hundreds of serfs per battery though, so can extend a human chain from the target to the battery to pass messages by voice.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline George Wallace

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2016, 11:41:21 »
We'll have hundreds of serfs per battery though, so can extend a human chain from the target to the battery to pass messages by voice.

 >:D

Having remembered that "Party Game"; the end result of the message may not be the exact same at the receiving end as it was initially sent by the originator. 

 [:D
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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2016, 11:47:09 »
>:D

Having remembered that "Party Game"; the end result of the message may not be the exact same at the receiving end as it was initially sent by the originator. 

 [:D

Agreed - you'll end up with a serious blue on blue if you do that...maybe even a premature.

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.