Author Topic: C3 Howitzer Replacement  (Read 75962 times)

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Offline Rick Goebel

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2016, 17:23:15 »
And it should be cheap too.  Just think of all that hemp rope that will be available as a by-product after marijuana is legalized.

And just think of the low carbon footprint.
Rick Goebel
Calgary

Offline Thucydides

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2016, 21:45:49 »
For very modern, apply modern mathematics like the Murlin Trebuchet:

Edit to add: Since spring is coming, here is a site where you can find plans and videos for this and other types of catapult fun.

http://kirkwoodhomeblog.com/murlin-trebuchet-blueprints
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 22:04:44 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline cupper

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2016, 22:43:05 »
In a pinch you can build one with lumber and use only duct tape to hold it together. Oh, and an engine block for the counterweight.

https://youtu.be/bHs5KC0SafU

A clip from the final season of Mythbusters, the lost duct tape episode.
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Offline MattGotts

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2016, 01:45:17 »
Good spit balling boys, glad to see the situation seems normal all across the board.
In regards to the siege weapons and such, I'd hope we can do some counter battery fire on some during this summer's exercises. We need to get back to the fundamentals.
Ubique!

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2016, 18:04:36 »
I believe the intent is still to replace the 105's with 120mm mortars for the reg/reserve. As of the last we were briefed the key hold up on that plan was honourary colonels and ceremonial openings for parliaments (provincial and federal).

As for HIMARS, there is currently no intent on procurement of that system. If it were procured it would go to 4 Arty Regt and definately not to the reserves.

WRT HIMARS/MRLS there is a new round in the works, being developed by Boeing and Saab.  It sticks a Small Diameter Bomb on top of an MRLS booster rocket and generates a system that can ripple off 6 rounds and hit 6 independent 1 meter targets within a 150 km radius - flying into tunnels on non-ballistic trajectories and taking out reverse slope targets.

Just what every peace-keeper should have at their beck and call

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkkfE5yHejc

« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 18:11:37 by Chris Pook »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2016, 05:24:35 »
WRT HIMARS/MRLS there is a new round in the works, being developed by Boeing and Saab.  It sticks a Small Diameter Bomb on top of an MRLS booster rocket and generates a system that can ripple off 6 rounds and hit 6 independent 1 meter targets within a 150 km radius - flying into tunnels on non-ballistic trajectories and taking out reverse slope targets.

Just what every peace-keeper should have at their beck and call

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkkfE5yHejc



But can seeds be added to sew legal dope fields across Canada? If we can convince the current bunch, then maybe we can procure the 'Marijuana Launching and Roto-tilling System' to use for other things too :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2016, 10:22:09 »
Plants need phosphorus.....
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Offline ueo

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2016, 10:50:35 »
Easy peezy, altho a bit messy.
Take the tone of the company you are with. Lord Chesterfield

Offline sunrayRnfldR

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2016, 03:31:05 »
On a more serious note, The Royal Australian Artillery equip some of their reserve units with 81 mm mortars and retain, in the same unit, several C2 howitzers for saluting duties. One example is 7 Bty of 3 Field Regiment, a part of 13 Reserve Brigade in Karrakatta, a suburb of Perth, Western Australia. Perhaps this model would work for the RCA.

Offline Petard

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2016, 10:40:00 »
In due time I expect something similar will happen with Canadian Reserve Artillery units, i.e they will end up training live just with 81's, and their C3's will be used for salute purposes.  The only exception being a few C3 kept for Avalanche control in Rogers Pass, although that task can be (and for a short while already was) done by LG1. Besides which Parks Canada might well find a more cost effective and less risky or intrusive solution in the next few years.

Besides the current fiscal climate limiting any major procurement for years, I doubt there's any plan to replace the C3 at all

Offline MeinBob

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2016, 11:39:27 »
When last at the School of Excellence in Gagetown, (summer of 2015) the IG's and Ack IG's informed my course that the plan was (or is) to keep the C3 going for as long as possible. (The LG1 is almost finished, and will be done soon.) This solution could work for the next 10 years or so. Then the plan is to procure a 120 mm mortar system to replace the C3.

This seems to be the plan, such as there is one, for the future of Reserve Artillery. However, this solution has its challenges, and I am not at all sure if this "plan" is going to stand the test of time. It makes sense as far as it is a good low-cost system that the Reserves could maintain, train, and even take into combat. The problem arises when you look at the Reg force's need to draw gunners for operations. Conversion training on a M777 is much more difficult when the Reservist being called up has only trained on mortars.

I think it is possible, given the current level of funding for new weapons systems, that the Reg Force Artillery will be given a 120 mm Mortar to replace the M777 and C3, with the Reserves getting 81 mm Mortars. Given that the cost of maintaining and training on the M777 is so high, it might be the low-cost way of keeping some indirect fire capability in the Canadian Army. I hope this does not happen, but it is the kind of thing I have come to expect. Alas, maybe I have become too much the cynic. 

Offline Colin P

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2016, 14:10:55 »
Sad way to cut capability that we can't easily source a replacement howitzer. I like the 120mm idea for the Reserves, replacing 155's with it is a bad idea facing anyone who looks a bit like a real army and can counterbattery. 

Offline MilEME09

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2016, 15:09:54 »
I cant see them tossing the 777 unless someone really hit their head hard, you can't have arty regiments without arty, and IMO mortars aren't the best arty.
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2016, 15:18:28 »
You don't need artillery to peacekeep, and we're about to see a defense white paper by a government that was against using airpower to stop genocide.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2016, 15:31:05 »
One artillery system that IS NOT at odds with peace-keeping is GBADS-CRAM.  It fits nicely into the R2P (Resposibility to Protect) paradigm of creating safe-havens.

It allows, to follow on from Colin's rapier analogy, the defender to parry - constantly countering the rapier, not attacking the swordsman.

An added benefit is that a system base on launching ESSM missiles to knock down other missiles, is equally capable of launching NSM missiles to take out stationary targets on the ground - should the need, and the inclination, arise.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2016, 16:44:20 »
hmmm yes like the way you think.....

It is a good time to look at what we want the Reserve Artillery to look like, but it needs to be done quickly and it needs to keep in mind that in this day and age if you don't have loud toys like howitzers or fancy toys like UAV/missiles or AD gus, you are going to suffer on the recruiting end.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2016, 16:48:27 »
hmmm yes like the way you think.....

It is a good time to look at what we want the Reserve Artillery to look like, but it needs to be done quickly and it needs to keep in mind that in this day and age if you don't have loud toys like howitzers or fancy toys like UAV/missiles or AD gus, you are going to suffer on the recruiting end.

Well that aspect does ad to the wow factor to recruiting, if all your reserve arty becomes is a mortar det, is it really worth it?
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Offline Colin P

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2016, 17:01:38 »
I remember joining up in the late 70’s I wanted armour, but all they had was jeeps, artillery had big cannons so I went there, not deep thinking, but then young males rarely do.

Offline Ostrozac

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2016, 17:26:09 »
You don't need artillery to peacekeep, and we're about to see a defense white paper by a government that was against using airpower to stop genocide.

You can use artillery in peacekeeping missions. MONUSCO in the Democratic Republic of Congo has artillery (Tanzanian D-30 122mm) to go along with their attack helicopters. MONUSCO is, as I understand it, the largest UN peacekeeping mission in history.

Offline MCG

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2016, 17:56:32 »
What about the L119/M119?  It is a light air-portable 105 mm that has been linked with a digital fire-control system derived from the same system as is used on the M777.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2016, 18:02:58 »
Can level and entire grid square in one f/m.

But you might actually hurt....woe is me....or kill some peace loving purveyor of a misunderstood religion!!!
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Offline Colin P

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2016, 17:48:47 »
What about the L119/M119?  It is a light air-portable 105 mm that has been linked with a digital fire-control system derived from the same system as is used on the M777.

and in service with several nations with the upgrade done recently. Just missing the will to fix the problem.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2016, 17:53:55 »
and in service with several nations with the upgrade done recently. Just missing the will to fix the problem.

and a procurement system to purchase it before the system is obsolete. On this issue on the 120mm mortar, if we got it as a towed system, could we create a mortar carrier variant of say a LAV as a mobile fire support unit?
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2016, 18:55:30 »
What about the L119/M119?  It is a light air-portable 105 mm that has been linked with a digital fire-control system derived from the same system as is used on the M777.

When I was at the arty school the AIG course I was running was tasked to come up with 3 x alternatives for a 105mm replacement and the IG course was tasked to come up with 3 x alternatives for a 120mm mortar system for the reserves.

The options the AIG came up with was essentially a rebuild of the C3, the L119, and the self propelled 105 CAESAR.

At the end of the session the CIG got up and said that there was no intent to buy another 105mm as they aren't intending to deploy them operationally (that's the M777 role at this time) and that the 120mm was being considered to maintain a reserve training capability and potentially to have a deployable capability.

Offline CBH99

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Re: C3 Howitzer Replacement
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2016, 20:09:37 »
If the powers at be have stated they have no intention of replacing the 105mm with another 105mm, and the M777 is to be our deployable artillery asset -- any word on purchasing more M777?

There aren't enough M777 for both training and deployable stocks, are there?  (My understanding is 34 guns were purchased, but I could be wrong?)


A 120mm mortar may actually be a relatively low maintainence, easily trainable, useful mission for the reserve artillery.  (As was stated above, even peacekeeping needs to have a heavy hand available when needed.)
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