Author Topic: New Artillery Capbadge  (Read 16742 times)

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Offline Petard

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New Artillery Capbadge
« on: March 21, 2016, 10:19:43 »
Royal Canadian Artillery units are adopting a new cap badge as of 26 May 2016; the attachment has more info




Offline MCG

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 10:29:32 »
Quote
All other members of the RCA [who do not pay dues to the regimental fund] entitled to wear the RCA metal cap badge will be required to obtain their own replacement cap badge within the grace period provided.
That was nice of someone in the military to have decided this is so important that soldiers will pay out of thier own pockets so the approval process could be expidited.  I guess you probably don't have to ask treasury board if you order soldiers to spend thier money.

Offline FJAG

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 11:04:24 »
MCG and I rarely agree when it comes to the button and bows issues because, unlike him, I do see the benefit of customs changing even when it costs either the crown or the individual a few bucks. Every tradition and every custom of the service has to have a first day at some point in time.

On this one however I stand with MCG.

It's not that as an older gunner I do not want to see any change to what was my tradition.

The problem that I see here is that the changes are so minute and picayune that one almost needs a magnifying glass to see what they are. IMHO one should not expend money (public or private) on a change in buttons and bows unless it makes a significant statement. This change fails the test in a big way.

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 11:15:43 »
I would love to be there when someone gets jacked up for the wrong capbadge because the grass is not "noticeably thicker".
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Offline acen

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 12:36:04 »
You may not have boots, you may not have a camouflage uniform that can hide the type and colour of your undergarments, and the grass may not be greener, but at least it will be "noticeably thicker" on the cap badge. Oh, by the way, pay up, that thicker grass doesn't pay for itself!

/sarcasm

Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 12:55:26 »
This is all about a 2006 cap badge?

It took 10 years to settle and "issue" them? What are they, boots?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 12:59:23 by Bzzliteyr »
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Offline my72jeep

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 13:01:45 »
There goes my idea that they couldn't make you buy issue kit. Going to need to reread the regs.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 15:10:09 by my72jeep »
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 14:23:00 »
Wel, I for one am glad the Artillery finally settled the cap badge debacle. Now they can get back to other things.

Like Guns.

And Air Defence.

And doctrine....

Offline krimynal

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 14:25:02 »
Wel, I for one am glad the Artillery finally settled the cap badge debacle. Now they can get back to other things.

Like Guns.

And Air Defence.

And doctrine....

Don't forget to add there the beret color ! lol
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Offline Loachman

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 16:59:59 »
I want to know about the money chain - who is profitting from this?

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 17:19:29 »
I want to know about the money chain - who is profitting from this?

Hmmm. When I was a recruit in the RCA Depot, our course NCOs collected so much from us that was used to buy the regimental accoutrements we were presented on our graduation parade. In the regiments we purchased replacements, especially for our lanyards, from the Maple Leaf Services, a non-military, arms length, organization that operated the canteens and remitted a percentage of the profit to the regimental fund.

My reading is that somebody or somebodies wanted to have a different cap badge from the Royal Artillery, but didn't have the cajones to come up with something that would have been really distinctive. I also feel they realized any attempt to discard our current badge would have been shot down by a regimental-wide revolt. To spot the differences at a glance, it seems too me, would take the forensic sophistication of the crazy PhD lady on Bones.

Offline Happy Guy

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 18:25:57 »
Given the current tendency to go back to our historic and memorable British past (sarcasm) is the 2006 badge the same as the current Royal Artillery cap badge?


Offline Rifleman62

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 18:31:56 »
Old Sweat: 
Quote
Maple Leaf Services, a non-military, arms length, organization that operated the canteens and remitted a percentage of the profit to the regimental fund.

Wasn't MLS run by retired General that's why there was only small profits were distr?  ;D
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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 18:42:08 »
Old Sweat: 
Wasn't MLS run by retired General that's why there was only small profits were distr?  ;D

I can't recall who ran it. We all had the belief/notion it was not very efficient. MLS certainly did not survive integration.

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 18:49:01 »
Given the current tendency to go back to our historic and memorable British past (sarcasm) is the 2006 badge the same as the current Royal Artillery cap badge?

I think so, although there were variations in the colour, metal, etc. Certainly the post-Korea badge was identical for all intents and purposes. In that regard, one should recall that the Second World War gunners considered RA and RCA units were interchangeable, and there were airborne units co-manned by British and Canadian gunners. I have seen a statement from that era to the effect that there was one regiment, not two. Canadians attended courses at the Royal School of Artillery and Brits went to the Canadian School of Artillery at Seaford.

Offline MCG

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 18:51:01 »
The picture is small, but it looks different here:  http://www.army.mod.uk/artillery/artillery.aspx

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 18:56:12 »
The picture is small, but it looks different here:  http://www.army.mod.uk/artillery/artillery.aspx

Indeed, but I have framed prints of both the RCHA and RCA badges at home. In the print the RCA badge also is coloured. Sorry I am at present in Amarilo, TX, so I can't assess it. Also I am unable to look at the horribly faded cloth badges on my old berets, but they were multi-coloured.

Offline Pusser

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2016, 07:10:06 »
I find it difficult to believe that anyone would actually notice the difference in passing.  Why not simply do this by attrition (i.e. simply start issuing the new badge as new personnel join and others need replacements).  This is how it has normally been done in the past for such minor changes.  When the Navy decided that officers' cap badges needed to have silver instead of gold anchors, it took awhile, but everybody managed to change in time and it was no big deal.  No one issued an op order on the issue...
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 07:32:18 »
Ah! Pusser, you just don't understand how the Army works: You don't do anything without an Opord followed by an "O" Group  ;D .

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2016, 07:41:17 »
So aside from the grass not being mowed as frequently, shorter trail, and the thicker and shorter rammer/swab and some font changes...the thing that sticks out to me (when I use a microscope) is that the cannon's barrel no longer is slightly conical with thicker breach and narrower muzzle, but apparently purely cylindrical -- is that how cannons are really made?   ??? 

Seems the Corps got all the minutae right, but pooped the bed on the configuration/design of the actual object of its business...

Well done, RCA!

 :-\

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 07:49:20 »
They might as well market this directly to the only group that will actually care about such minor changes: artillery badge collectors.

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 08:13:50 »
So in a few years when we get a King, will the crown have to change again?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 08:39:13 »
So in a few years when we get a King, will the crown have to change again?

Ah!   You forward thinker, you.  You did have to throw out that minor fact that will keep the "Buttons and Bows Department" in full motion for the next century or two.  And another Empire is created.
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Offline my72jeep

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 09:38:22 »
Ah!   You forward thinker, you.  You did have to throw out that minor fact that will keep the "Buttons and Bows Department" in full motion for the next century or two.  And another Empire is created.
Just think about it I belive the next three in line are males, ergo the only thing the buttons and bows department will have to do is minor changes.........
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Offline MCG

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 09:43:04 »
So in a few years when we get a King, will the crown have to change again?
There is no "kings' crown" and "queens' crown."   There are several crowns and each new monarch picks the one that will be that monarch's.  So, getting a king next does not mean the crown will change, but any change of monarch might result in the crown changing.

Offline Pusser

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 12:17:03 »
There is no "kings' crown" and "queens' crown."   There are several crowns and each new monarch picks the one that will be that monarch's.  So, getting a king next does not mean the crown will change, but any change of monarch might result in the crown changing.

Aww c'mon!  Why spoil a good myth with facts?
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Offline Simian Turner

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 18:47:14 »
There is no "kings' crown" and "queens' crown."   There are several crowns and each new monarch picks the one that will be that monarch's.  So, getting a king next does not mean the crown will change, but any change of monarch might result in the crown changing.

More correctly, there have been many specially designed coronation crowns for incoming Monarchs some of whom who thought St. Edward's Crown was too heavy.

The old King vs Queen crown reference stems from the 1953 decision by QER II to change all Royal crests from the Tudor Crown to the St. Edward's Crown. Therefore, it was/is referred to by many as the "King's crown" pre-1953 and "Queen's crown" post-1953. 

So it is possible that the next Monarch could choose any headdress they wish to adorn all Royal crests in the future. I recommend they choose one that pisses off the next generations of followers of heraldry and those serving under the resulting crests. 
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2016, 18:55:52 »
So it is possible that the next Monarch could choose any headdress they wish to adorn all Royal crests in the future. I recommend they choose one that pisses off the next generations of followers of heraldry and those serving under the resulting crests.

The Royal Family is already set for that:

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Offline Ostrozac

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2016, 19:04:38 »
More correctly, there have been many specially designed coronation crowns for incoming Monarchs some of whom who thought St. Edward's Crown was too heavy.

The old King vs Queen crown reference stems from the 1953 decision by QER II to change all Royal crests from the Tudor Crown to the St Edward's Crown. Therefore, it was/is referred to by many as the "King's crown" pre-1953 and "Queen's crown" post-1953.  So it is possible that the next Monarch could choose any headdress they wish to adorn all Royal crests in the future. I recommend they choose one that pisses off the next generations of followers of heraldry and those serving under the resulting crests.

Queen Elizabeth wore the Saint Edward's Crown in 1953; the same one as her father and grandfather wore for their coronations. 

Speculation is that Queen Elizabeth changed the official crown used on crests because the Tudor Crown was also commonly known as the Imperial Crown, and she wanted to mark that she was not going to reign as an Empress, unlike the previous few monarchs, who were Emperor/Empress of India.

There is also speculation that she inquired as to why the crown used on crests wasn't representative of the one actually used in the coronations... and no one had a good answer.

I leave it to those of you with better knowledge of heraldry to pick which of those theories is accurate, if indeed either is. But regardless, I can't see a compelling reason to switch back to the Tudor/Imperial Crown on the eventual accession of a new monarch.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2016, 19:04:50 »
The Royal Family is already set for that:



You evil man, you.

Now some Rifle Regiment will adopt her as their Honourary Colonel and that as a Hatbadge.

 >:D
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: New Artillery Capbadge
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2016, 19:07:49 »
You evil man, you.

Now some Rifle Regiment will adopt her as their Honourary Colonel and that as a Hatbadge.

 >:D

Yes we would really like something new......we have an HCol and an HLcol already though.....maybe she could be an HMaj?
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