Author Topic: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"  (Read 10181 times)

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Offline MarkOttawa

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"Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« on: April 05, 2016, 16:17:17 »
Note further links at post based on CP story:

Quote
Our politicians and media largely ignore–unlike their constant focus on military procurements–our mostly silent (civilian) service, to its great detriment. Now the awful facts described in a major government report tabled in February are reported...
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/04/05/mark-collins-canadian-coast-guard-going-down/

Mark
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2016, 11:19:32 »
Toronto Star weighs in:

Rescue Canada’s floundering coast guard: Editorial
The Canadian Coast Guard is in dire straits due to aging ships and understaffing. It's vital that the federal government respond.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2016/04/08/rescue-canadas-floundering-coast-guard-editorial.html

Mark
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Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2016, 14:07:12 »
Lack of funding, a senior management that is more less dysfunctional, a bias against anyone not from the college and coming up the hawsepipe in regards to supporting their career advancement. The management is slowly slitting their own throats in regards to doing little out of their mandate. When you try to get a tasking they make it very difficult, once they even wanted to bill us the entire cost of the ship, when we offered to cover any excess cost like OT and fuel. It was cheaper to hire a charter crew boat. It's not the crews, they love to get out and do new things and go new places. Most of the initiatives you see like diving, swimmer, rescue specialist were driven by the crew members and not the management or senior officers. CCG has some great talent and dedicated crews despite the organization, not because of it.   

Offline my72jeep

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2016, 14:33:25 »
Wow sounds like every other Canadian Gov. agency.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2016, 16:34:54 »
38 year-old icebreaker CCGS Pierre Radisson to be modernized--note final para on what is done in the winter:

Quote
ABB Breathes New Life into Canadian Icebreaker

ABB modernization to extend service of 38-year-old Canadian Coast Guard Icebreaker; upgrade includes improved connectivity and eight new drives

ABB will modernize a Canadian Coast Guard icebreaker, installing the latest hardware and software onboard the 38 year old Pierre Radisson. As part of the complete upgrade to the ship’s power distribution system, eight new drives will also be installed. The contract includes the option to modernize the other two Coast Guard ships, Des Groseilliers and Amundsen, both of which have clocked up more than 30 years of service…

Design and supply work is scheduled to begin immediately and installation and commissioning is expected to be finished by June 2017. In winter, the Pierre Radisson breaks ice and escorts ships in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and on the St. Lawrence and Saguenay Rivers. In summer, the ship travels to the Canadian Arctic to escort commercial ships, serve as a primary search and rescue unit and provide support to scientific missions when possible…”
http://www.marinelink.com/news/icebreaker-breathes408440.aspx

Keep ’em going to the half century or something as only that one new one is planned.

Work likely to be done at Davie, Quebec:
http://www.45enord.ca/2015/07/un-contrat-de-16-millions-a-la-davie-pour-moderniser-le-navire-de-la-garde-cotiere-henry-larsen/

Mark
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 13:00:31 »
Davie proposal may still be alive:

Quote
Davie Québec Wants to Build Icebreaker for, Unload Other Vessels on, Canadian Coast Guard, Part 2

Further to this post with lots of detail on the pitch and in which I wrote…
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/mark-collins-davie-quebec-wants-to-build-icebreaker-for-unload-other-vessels-on-canadian-coast-guard/
 
"…
 The CCG could certainly use a new polar icebreaker before 2022 and the other vessels Davie has been put forward could well be welcome (see the 2013 situation here: “The Poor Canadian Coast Guard, or, Read Our Lips…)…"

it now looks as if the Davie idea may not be dead...
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/07/27/mark-collins-davie-quebec-wants-to-build-icebreaker-for-unload-other-vessels-on-canadian-coast-guard-part-2/

Mark
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Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 11:42:31 »
What's old is new again




Offline jmt18325

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 14:07:22 »
I'd be all for leasing icebreakers.  There's no way we can buy enough in time given the timeline.

Offline CBH99

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 16:44:07 »
http://m.thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1386349-crew-shortage-ties-up-coast-guard

*I haven't posted a link to a story before, sorry if I didn't do it correctly.


Doesn't seem to be a super urgent matter.  It really does illuminate the contrast between the Canadian Coast Guard and the US Coast Guard in terms of structure, staffing, etc. though.
Fortune Favours the Bold...and the Smart.

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Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 17:00:37 »
Not surprising, we are paying poor wages compared to industry, but then we don't have the ups and downs. If the downturn carries on, this will be self correcting as we won't have to compete for ticketed personal. If even one of the LNG projects on the West Coast goes into production, there will be a severe shortage for the first 10 years. The pilots hire mostly from the Tugs and with 4 docking tugs and possibly 2-3 escort tugs per tanker with 250-360 ships a year, that's a lot of people to maintain that flow.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 19:59:22 »
In the "Gee, who'd have thought" department, CCG is having trouble finding crews willing to work overtime, since the new pay system has problems with paying them.  Imagine, crews at sea don't have access to the Government of Canada computer network to input their hours for approval by their boss.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/coast-guard-overtime-issues-linked-to-phoenix-1.3718353
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2016, 20:15:37 »
I sense the nefarious hand of the evil Harper.   >:D

Downsizing the bureaucracy on the Liberal's watch by implementing a change the Civil Service asked for.  Genius. 
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2016, 22:47:24 »
They should really start putting "we don't drug test" on their job ads.
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2016, 15:44:56 »
In the "Gee, who'd have thought" department, CCG is having trouble finding crews willing to work overtime, since the new pay system has problems with paying them.  Imagine, crews at sea don't have access to the Government of Canada computer network to input their hours for approval by their boss.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/coast-guard-overtime-issues-linked-to-phoenix-1.3718353

The assumption of the software types is everyone has an account and network access.

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Offline Blair Gilmore

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2017, 19:56:28 »
Although the Liberal government is promising to finally boost the CCG with some decades in coming spending, they're still making mistakes by cutting programs such as the Dive Team in Richmond, BC. It's the only team of its type in all of Canada and it fills a rescue niche for the Lower Mainland that can't be filled by other services like SAR Techs or civilians. I've added my voice to the growing backlash against the decision, you can read my article here:

http://www.happydiver.space/?p=434

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2017, 10:34:31 »
I was there at the start of the dive team and I know what it cost the rescue personal to have to sit there and listen to the trapped survivors in the hulls and not being able to respond from before the team started. Starting the dive team was an uphill battle until the Minister became frustrated with the games of management and ordered it to be fully funded. CCG managed to kill the Rescue swimmer program and tried to kill the Rescue Specialist program as well. All 3 programs were started at the grassroots level in Kits base and the Hovercraft by very dedicated individuals who saw the need and envisioned a solution. Meanwhile CCG management was trying to close both Kits and the Hovercraft base because they hated being responsible for inshore SAR and it was a budgetary threat to the big ships. I am not surprised by this move at all.

DFO is also shutting down fish habitat restoration projects and reassigning the personal to other things.

All hail the new regime "Ocean Protection Program" dissent is not tolerated and obedience is required"     

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 19:40:46 »
Show me some real CCG money--hah!  First a tweet:

Quote
Timothy Choi‏ @TimmyC62
...
Most of them are already 30 years old, being built in the '80s...
https://twitter.com/TimmyC62/status/872939773777674240

Now sailing on forever almost (further links at original):

Quote
Canadian Coast Guard Fleet Modernization Underway

ABB said it will modernize 10 out of 14 Medium Icebreakers and High Endurance Multi Task Canadian Coast Guard ships to extend operational life of the vessels by another 20 years.
 
“For more than 75 years ABB has been working at the cutting edge of icebreaker technology and we are delighted to bring this expertise to these Canadian Coast Guard ships,” said Jyri Jusslin, Senior Vice President of ABB Global Marine & Ports Service. “We have a long successful track record of working with both AC and DC systems and we are delighted the Canadian Coast Guard recognizes ABB as a reliable partner.”
 
Design and work supply on first of the 10 vessels, CCGS Pierre Radisson, is already underway and will be completed in July 2017. From then on the remaining nine vessels will be completed in following order: CCGS Ann Harvey (2018), CCGS Des Groseilliers (2018), CCGS Sir William Alexander (2018), CCGS Martha L. Black (2018), CCGS Henry Larsen (2019), CCGS Edward Cornwallis (2019), CCGS Sir Wilfrid Laurier (2020), CCGS George R. Pearkes (2020), CCGS Amundsen (2020).
 
Medium Icebreakers and High Endurance Multi Task Vessels typically work year round, performing search and rescue, maritime navigational aids, ice breaking, oceanographic studies, patrol and protection of Canada coastline. In winter, the vessels are assigned to icebreaking and ship escort operations at Canadian waters, St. Lawrence Seaway and Great Lakes. Every summer CCGS Amundsen is charted by a scientific consortium and makes her way to the Canadian Arctic to conduct a wide variety of scientific missions. While in the Arctic, the vessels also serve as a primary search and rescue unit and provides support to scientific missions when possible...
https://www.marinelink.com/news/modernization-canadian426174

Mark
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2017, 20:05:00 »
For the work they do, they don't really need cutting edge technology.  They do need reliability.  Hopefully in another decade that won't be such a problem for them.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2017, 20:35:45 »
List of CCG vessels--note age of larger ones;
http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/Fleet/Search?todo=all#results

Mark
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« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 20:42:50 by MarkOttawa »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2017, 23:01:19 »
No question, they're old.  If we can get 20 more years out of some of them, I think that's great.  It gives us time to replace the ones that we can't get 20 years out of.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2017, 07:29:17 »
For the work they do, they don't really need cutting edge technology.  They do need reliability.  Hopefully in another decade that won't be such a problem for them.

What makes you think those things are mutually exclusive?

Cutting edge technology in modern shipping is reliability.

The whole industry is very focused on reducing downtime and reducing maintenance costs.

Modern technologies and systems reduce crewing costs and simplify operations.

Unfortunately, the coast guard as an organization does not have the knowledge or skill base to operate and maintain a modern ship at the moment, there would be a very steep and sudden learning curve for any crew assigned to a modern boat.

It's already been an issue with some of their new smaller boats.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 07:33:18 by Not a Sig Op »
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2017, 10:11:11 »
What makes you think those things are mutually exclusive?

Cutting edge technology in modern shipping is reliability.

The whole industry is very focused on reducing downtime and reducing maintenance costs.

Modern technologies and systems reduce crewing costs and simplify operations.

Unfortunately, the coast guard as an organization does not have the knowledge or skill base to operate and maintain a modern ship at the moment, there would be a very steep and sudden learning curve for any crew assigned to a modern boat.

It's already been an issue with some of their new smaller boats.

One example is the onboard equipment health monitoring packages (EHM) that phone home with data packets to the OEM daily.  They have teams of experts monitoring for trends etc and all the operational data lets them build extensive databases to help predict problems before they come up.  They can do the same with vibration analysis and other good tools.

So you'll get emails like 'check cylinder A4 on your DG as it's been starting to run hotter at low loads' and pick up potential issues that are starting to drift within the normal range before it gets to a problem.  This is harder to do looking at logs with a once an hour snapshot, and you tend to not catch things until they are outside of normal.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2017, 17:19:27 »
New CCG icebreaker to be Norwegian design, haven't seen the gov't mention that (by same company, owned by Fincantieri, that did RCN A/OPS):

Quote
Vard Marine has decades of experience with the design of icebreakers and ice-capable ships for operations in the Arctic, Antarctic, and many sub-polar areas of the world. Our extensive database includes full and model scale performance information on our own designs, vessels built by the Vard Group, and many other icebreakers. We conduct in-house and contract research into key aspects of these ship types, including hull form, propulsion plant configurations, structural design, and winterization. Vard Marine has provided assistance to the development of the new IMO Polar Code, and continues to provide guidance to owners, operators and other stakeholders on how to implement regulatory requirements...

he VARD 9 206 is a Polar Icebreaker designed to be the flagship vessel for the Canadian Coast Guard, with a multi-mission capability. The ship can break up to 2.5m of level ice, and has excellent manoeuvrability in even heavy ice conditions. Ship systems are designed to provide very high levels of operational availability by design and through equipment selection. The mission systems are configured to allow for operations in extreme weather conditions while minimizing crew and mission personnel exposure. Vard Marine worked with the designated shipyard for this project to include numerous design for production features.



The VARD 7 100i was developed as the basis for the Royal Canadian Navy’s new fleet of Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships. This design balances icegoing and open-water performance requirements to fulfill the Navy’s missions around the world’s longest coastline...



https://vardmarine.com/vessel-design-portfolio/specialized-vessels/ice-breakers/

Mark
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 17:41:16 »
Seaspan nicely buries Vard Marine design of new icebreaker in caption at image here--"* Reproduced by permission of Canadian Coast Guard and VARD Marine":
https://www.seaspan.com/building



Mark
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