Author Topic: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"  (Read 13388 times)

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2017, 17:57:24 »
Imagine how much money would be saved, and how much sooner delivery, if we just bought new CCG icebreaker direct from VARD Marine!  But those jobs! jobs! jobs! Fie on both Conservatives and Liberals.

Mark
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Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 18:30:29 »
Seaspan nicely buries Vard Marine design of new icebreaker in caption at image here--"* Reproduced by permission of Canadian Coast Guard and VARD Marine":
https://www.seaspan.com/building



Mark
Ottawa

I doubt the Trudeau Liberals will permit a CCGS to be named after a Conservative PM.   [:p
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2017, 18:47:06 »
Imagine how much money would be saved, and how much sooner delivery, if we just bought new CCG icebreaker direct from VARD Marine!  But those jobs! jobs! jobs! Fie on both Conservatives and Liberals.

Mark
Ottawa

Actually, Mark: Not possible.

First of all, VARD Marine is an engineering and naval architecture company. They design the ships and develop the detailed building plans, but they don't have a shipyard and don't build anything themselves.

Second, VARD marine has developed very few design themselves. About 75% of their portfolio is basically the plans and designs of STX Marine Canada, of Vancouver, that they acquired when they bought them and Kraevner out. The actual ice breaker designs and the patrol vessels (from the Kiwi 85 m. OPV of project protector, to the Roislin and Beckett of the Irish naval Service, for instance, are all Canadian designs of STX).

As for the Norwegian yards that built some of those ships, they actually got most of the hulls and superstructure built in Polish shipyard to save money. Norway yards only did the fitting out and finishing work.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2017, 19:33:25 »
Oldgateboatdriver:

Quote
...
As for the Norwegian yards that built some of those ships, they actually got most of the hulls and superstructure built in Polish shipyard to save money. Norway yards only did the fitting out and finishing work.

So if we just contracted VARD Marine to deliver the ship, most metal-bashing done in Romania (not Poland https://vardmarine.com/about-vard-marine/corporate-information/ ), surely cheaper and faster than Seaspan?

Mark
Ottawa
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 21:39:39 »
First of all, VARD Marine is an engineering and naval architecture company. They design the ships and develop the detailed building plans, but they don't have a shipyard and don't build anything themselves.

To be clear, you're referring to Vards operations in Canada?

As Vard quite definitely operates a number of shipyards, they do excellent work.

International customers buying at their Norwegian yards is a testament to the trade offs between price and quality in modern ship building.
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2017, 22:07:45 »
http://www.vard.com/products/pages/shipbuilding.aspx

Langsten was where the Svalbard was built.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2017, 22:18:16 »
Yes, Not a Sig Op, I am referring to VARD Marine's Canadian subsidiary, which is the one that is doing the work with Seaspan on the design for various ships of the Shipbuilding Strategy and I believe also helped with the design work on the AOPS.

That division of Fincantierri, even though under the VARD umbrella is an engineering and marine architecture outfit. It was born of the acquisition of STX Marine, with its patrol vessels and ice breakers designs, by Kraevner, first, then by VARD.

The actual shipyards of VARD and VARD itself, before acquiring this book of designs from Kraevner, was concentrating and almost exclusively into construction of oil rig support vessels and other small specialized oil exploration vessels.

When the most famous products on VARD's list of "models" were built, be it the Svalbard or the Nordkapp for ice breaking ships, or the New Zealand's Wellington and Otago OPV, or the Irish naval Service's Beckett class or Roisin class vessels, it was either STX Marine or Kraevner working on their own behalf that were doing the design work. VARD just bought them out to acquire the rights to the designs.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2017, 10:49:16 »
Oldgateboatdriver: Indeed--a tweet to me from Aker Arctic:
https://twitter.com/AkerArctic/status/905735052516044802

Quote
@AkerArctic
Interesting how a project that began as a Canadian-Finnish co-operation under STX ended up as a "Norwegian design"...

Second tweet from Aker Arctic:
https://twitter.com/AkerArctic/status/905807608304553984

Quote
@AkerArctic
No problem. VARD inherited the project from STX Canada Marine led team where we were responsible for icebreaking hull form, propulsion etc.

Mark
Ottawa

Mark
Ottawa
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 11:04:22 by MarkOttawa »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2017, 11:01:40 »
Seaspan late for CCG, will delay RCN JSS, CCG icebreaker:
Quote
Seaspan holds open house to show off new vessel

 Members of the public were able to get up close in North Vancouver to Canada’s nearly complete first offshore fisheries science vessel which will come to Esquimalt for its final testing.

More than 3,300 people toured Seaspan’s Vancouver Shipyards’ open house on Sunday to see what taxpayers are buying. In 2011, the federal government announced that Seaspan would be negotiating contracts worth up to $8 billion to build non-combat ships for the navy and Canadian Coast Guard.

The first of three science vessels will likely be launched in early December at Vancouver Shipyards. It is not yet know when it will be towed to Seaspan-owned Victoria Shipyards, based in Esquimalt, for preparation to hand over to the federal government.

It was initially expected to be delivered this year but now that will not take place until 2018 [emphasis added].

Two other science vessels are also under construction in North Vancouver. They are to be ready in 2019.

It was learned last month that federal officials are taking a fresh look at the budgets and construction schedules for two new navy resupply vessels and for Canada’s planned new polar icebreaker, also to be built in North Vancouver.

This review is being carried out because the three science vessels are arriving later than originally planned [emphasis added]...
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/seaspan-holds-open-house-to-show-off-new-vessel-1.23052733

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2017, 11:22:04 »
I went to the open house, it was a great time. The First OFSV is almost ready for launching, Hull #2 & 3 are moving along and the people say they have picked up some time from lessons learned. The actual yard was finished around Oct 2014, the design when delivered to the shipyard was badly flawed and required redesigning, who's fault was that? Also someone should ask, "Why have so many government designs been top heavy and require remedial work after the fact?"

Online jmt18325

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2017, 11:26:41 »
Any word when the OOSV might start?  The yard is supposed to be capable of building 4 ships at a time.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2017, 11:56:42 »
Also someone should ask, "Why have so many government designs been top heavy and require remedial work after the fact?"

Your answer is in your question, Colin: What else would the government of Canada design but something top-heavy? It's in their very nature to be top-heavy in everything they do.  ;D

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2017, 13:56:54 »
Note this from DFO on CCG vessels from FY 2015-16 "Report on Plans and Priorities":

Quote
...
Offshore Fisheries Science Vessels
...
Design contract completion: February 2012
Contract Award for Construction Engineering: February 2013
Contract Award for Construction: 2014-15
First two vessels to be delivered: 2016-17 [now first 2018]
Delivery of final Offshore Fisheries Science Vessel: 2016-17 [other two now 2019]
...
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/rpp/2015-16/SupplementaryTables/mcp-eng.html#s1.2

But 2016-17 and 2017-18 Reports do not even cover OFSVs:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/rpp/2016-17/SupplementaryTables/mcp-eng.html
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/rpp/2017-18/SupplementaryTables/mcp-eng.html

Hmmm.

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2017, 14:09:40 »
Hmmm Irving took 3 years to build the first Hero Class, about the same for the OFSVs, which will launch the first ones shortly. Seem according to the webpage that the construction contract for the Science vessel is not yet awarded.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2017, 11:39:38 »
Fifty-four year old CCGS Hudson can't even get refit done properly in Canada--for shame, how old must the fleet get?  Note last sentence in quote:

Quote
Why Ottawa yanked a Coast Guard ship out of $4M refit
Marine research vessel Hudson towed from Hamilton, Ont., shipyard Friday with repairs unfinished

 The Government of Canada is pulling the plug on the much-delayed refit of the venerable Canadian Coast Guard Ship Hudson. CBC News has learned the Coast Guard towed the Hudson out of an Ontario shipyard Friday with the $4-million refit unfinished.

    $4M Canadian Coast Guard ship refit months behind schedule

The ocean science research ship arrived at Heddle Marine in Hamilton, Ont., in December 2016 for maintenance work that was supposed to be completed in May.

The Coast Guard won't say what went wrong and can't say when the ship will be back in service.
Towed to Burlington

"The Canadian Coast Guard and Public Services and Procurement Canada have worked closely with Heddle Marine to manage delays in the scheduled maintenance of the CCGS Hudson, and to bring her back into service in a reasonable time frame.

"Despite those efforts, the work has not been completed," spokesperson Vance Chow said in an emailed response to questions from CBC News.

On Friday, the 91-metre ship was towed across Hamilton Harbour to the Canada Centre for Inland Waters — a federal facility in Burlington — "to await the completion of the maintenance work required before she can return to service."

The Coast Guard says new timelines for the ship's return to service are currently under review.

The refit included overhauling the superstructure and masts, blasting and recoating the hull, replacing steel and repairing the rudder.
Refit future uncertain

When CBC News revealed the refit delays in August, the company said it had been instructed by the Coast Guard not to discuss the situation.

Heddle Marine spokesperson Shaun Padulo emailed a short statement in response to CBC News inquiries on Friday about the end of the refit.

"Although there were a number of challenges faced during the dry docking of the CCGS Hudson which led to delays in the completion of the work, Canada has accepted all of the completed work," Padulo wrote.

The Coast Guard has not responded to a request to explain the nature of the refit delay, how much work remains on the refit or who will pay.

The delay has already forced the cancellation of scientific cruises scheduled for the storied Hudson, which is Canada's premier marine research vessel. The 54-year-old workhorse was supposed to be replaced several years ago, but that too has been delayed.



https://milnet.ca/forums/index.php?action=post;topic=122642.25;last_msg=1505263

"The 54-year-old workhorse was supposed to be replaced several years ago, but that too has been delayed".  Both Harper and Trudeau governments have failed terribly to deal with the CCG's needs.

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2017, 12:59:01 »
CCGS Hudson to be replaced by Seaspan-built OOSV--GOOD LUCK with DFO timeline:

Quote
Departmental Plan 2017-18...

Supplementary information tables
Status report on transformational and Major Crown Projects
Offshore Oceanographic Science Vessel


Description: The Offshore Oceanographic Science Vessel project will acquire a replacement vessel for the Canadian Coast Guard's largest science vessel, the Canadian Coast Guard Ship (CCGS) Hudson. This vessel was built in 1963 and its replacement is critical to fulfilment of the Department's science mandate as well as mandates of other government departments and agencies. The vessel currently operates on the east coast of Canada...

November 2015 - Contract award for construction engineering;
2018 - Contract award for shipbuilding; and
2020 - Tentative delivery of Offshore Oceanographic Science Vessel.

...The Offshore Oceanographic Science Vessel project was initially approved in July 2008 at a total estimated cost of $108.9 million for the procurement of one vessel. In 2009, Treasury Board authorized a transfer of $35.5 million from the Offshore Fisheries Science Vessels project to the Offshore Oceanographic Science Vessel project in light of revised funding profiles to procure these vessels. As a result, the Offshore Oceanographic Science Vessel project currently has a revised total estimated cost of $144.4 million (under review).

To date, Treasury Board has granted $73.4 million to the project for the definition phase, including construction engineering
[emphasis added]...
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/rpp/2017-18/SupplementaryTables/mcp-eng.html

CCGS Hudson details:

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/Fleet/Vessel?vessel_id=71

New OOSV image:


https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/mer-sea/sncn-nss/projets-projects-eng.html?wbdisable=true#s9

Mark
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Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2017, 13:13:54 »
Seaspan page on vessels for CCG, plus RCN JSS--OPV/MEMTV are sometime middle next decade with luck, see end of the post:

Quote

https://www.seaspan.com/building

Seaspan president speaking 2015 (scroll down):

Quote
...It is only after the Polar [icebreaker] project that we get into a true production line with up to five Medium Endurance Multi-Tasked vessels and up to five Offshore Patrol Vessels...
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/mer-sea/sncn-nss/nouvelles-news/2015-06-12-eng.html

DFO 2017-18 Plan:

Quote
...
2024- Delivery of Polar Icebreaker [SURE]
...
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/rpp/2017-18/SupplementaryTables/mcp-eng.html

Mark
Ottawa
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 13:23:54 by MarkOttawa »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2017, 13:56:43 »
If anything like this happens (Congress and money) USCG could be a lot smarter than our shipbuilding (only one new icebreaker now planned):

Quote
US icebreaker investment could bring 2 bn windfall to Finland
The US is planning to acquire several new icebreakers for its Arctic fleet. Although rules prevent it from importing the ships directly, the Finns are counting on US manufacturers needing plenty of expert consultation and parts.

As its Polar-class icebreakers reach the end of their effective lifetimes, the United States is looking to quickly build a new fleet of heavy icebreakers. The state of Finland and over a dozen private Finnish companies are hoping the investment will be profitable for them as well, as suppliers and designers. A campaign is underway to convince the Americans to employ their services.

The US plan at present is to build three heavy and three medium polar icebreakers, with more built at a future date. The total cost of the first phase of the investment is estimated to rise to 4 billion euros.

The US has a law that prohibits the Coast Guard and Navy from buying certain vessels from foreign countries. The plan is to build each of the new high-tech ships at a single port somewhere in the United States, but it is also clear that the US will need help in this process.

Another law says that 51 percent of the vessel's parts must be made domestically, leaving 49 percent of the equipment, motors and design work free to be imported.

"If Finland were to win the entire share, it would be a deal worth two billion euros," says Ulla Lainio, an expert at Finland's export trade promoter Finpro, who is responsible for the organisation's maritime and offshore growth programmes.
"We've got a good chance"

Tero Vauraste from the state-owned polar vessel service Arctia says Finland has a good chance to finally break into the US icebreaker market with this latest development.

"The US icebreaking capacity is nowhere near its requirements. Finland, on the other hand, is number one in the field. We have expertise in the entire chain of services: from design to implementation to maintenance and repair," he says.

Next year's US budget is currently being wrangled over in Washington, and decisions on appropriations will be soon forthcoming. Over 20 Finnish firms – including leading systems providers and machine shops – have been lobbying for a piece of the pie...

The initial schedule has laid out that the first new US icebreaker be ready for action in 2023. This means that in order to leave enough time for the engines and speciality parts to be manufactured, procurement should start by the end of 2019 at the latest.

After the first ship is completed, the other two should be taken into use in 2025 and 2026...
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/us_icebreaker_investment_could_bring_2_bn_windfall_to_finland/9872182
 

2023 would be before new CCG Seaspan icebreaker, supposedly to be delivered 2024:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/rpp/2017-18/SupplementaryTables/mcp-eng.html

Mark
Ottawa

Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2017, 14:17:25 »
It's good that they're getting ships, now they just need a crew to put on them...

http://vocm.com/news/coast-guard-confirms-some-ships-docked-due-to-phoenix-pay-issues/
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2017, 11:12:10 »
CCGS Hudson to be replaced by Seaspan-built OOSV--GOOD LUCK with DFO timeline:

CCGS Hudson details:

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/Fleet/Vessel?vessel_id=71

New OOSV image:


https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/mer-sea/sncn-nss/projets-projects-eng.html?wbdisable=true#s9

Mark
Ottawa

Not sure why they are showing the Tully which has been in service for years and has a good name for herself. Unlike the Sinclair which was an utter dog http://www.nauticapedia.ca/dbase/Query/Shiplist4.php?&name=James%20Sinclair%20%28F.P.V.%29&id=24974

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2017, 13:21:24 »
Chantier Davie pitches it Aiviq icebreaker for CCG on twitter:
https://twitter.com/chantierdavie/status/918565826650890240

Quote
@chantierdavie

AIVIQ is a modern, powerful and highly affordable polar icebreaker which is immediately available for the Canadian Coast Guard #cdnpoli


November 2016:

Quote
Davie Québec Actually Going to Supply Some Icebreakers for Coast Guard?
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/mark-collins-davie-quebec-actually-going-to-supply-some-icebreakers-for-coast-guard/

Mark
Ottawa

Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2017, 13:52:14 »
Chantier Davie pitches it Aiviq icebreaker for CCG on twitter:
https://twitter.com/chantierdavie/status/918565826650890240

November 2016:

Mark
Ottawa

But how will that help the Prime Minister provide more support to Quebec? ;)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2017, 14:16:52 »
Slightly bigger and more ice capable than an AOP's Not opposed to this as a supplementary Ice Breaker/Rescue ship to the CCG. Not sure she would be good for buoy tending.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiviq

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2017, 14:52:16 »
She's an anchor handling and supply ship for oil platforms. As such, she has two large cranes with high ratings, a good working deck aft and cargo holds for chains, anchors and all other associated paraphernalia within reach of those cranes. If you're set up to drop, move or recover oil platforms anchors in very specific locations, seems like a pretty reasonable set up for buoy work to me.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2017, 10:47:00 »
Generally buoy work done over the side rather than the rear, plus her draft is a good 10' more than a 1100, buoy work often means being close in to hazards. She be good at deep sea ODAS's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB6XfEfwJHE