Author Topic: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"  (Read 44790 times)

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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #150 on: August 14, 2018, 15:14:32 »
We may be over paying a touch...

Usual day rate for a vessel like this in today's market is going to be maybe $20-40k CND.

Even on the very generous end of $40k,  that's about $14.5 million per year to charter a decent size anchor handler.

I hope this price is including substantial life extension upfront...

A crane and a hang are not really that expensive.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 09:38:43 by Not a Sig Op »
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline YZT580

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #151 on: August 14, 2018, 18:08:44 »
But it keeps Davies in business

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #152 on: August 16, 2018, 21:43:21 »
Over to you, Colin P. on Seaspan's OFSVs for CCG:

Quote
Shipbuilding program hits snag as inspection finds defective welds in hull

'Defects ... are far from uncommon in shipbuilding,' says Seaspan spokesman

The first civilian ship built under the federal government's marquee shipbuilding program will have portions of its hull re-welded because an inspection has uncovered a series of defective joints, CBC News has learned.

Up to 44 metres of welds on the Canadian Coast Guard Ship Sir John Franklin — which was launched only last December and has not yet entered service — will be repaired before it is handed over to the federal government early next year.

It is one of three offshore fisheries science vessels being constructed by Seaspan in Vancouver. All three vessels were found to have the same defect — meaning all three will have to be re-welded in spots before entering service.

The company is still investigating how the faults happened, with the help of outside experts.

But officials downplayed the significance, saying welding problems occur on all projects and the extent of the overhaul represents just under five per cent of the joints on the Sir John Franklin.

"While defects are unwelcome, they are far from uncommon in shipbuilding," said Tim Page, vice-president of government relations at Seaspan.

It is a setback for the $687 million program and it comes as the federal government considers a "refresh" of its shipbuilding policy.

It also could provide new ammunition for critics who have argued the federal government should be buying more of its ships offshore at more experienced construction yards...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/shipbuilding-coast-guard-welds-1.4788322

Mark
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Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #153 on: August 20, 2018, 16:39:53 »

I am happy that they found them now and not later like almost every other government vessel. I can think of 3 vessel types where the welding was so bad the initial contracts were cancelled after the first or 2nd built, 70' Point class, 41' utility class, 47' Cape class cutters. Then there was the Landing/fuel barges, some of the worst welds I have every seen on vessel and one of the poorest designs as well. It seems like Seaspan has stepped up and committed to repair it and likely will go after the manufacturer of the welding machine if the problem can be traced back to them. Embarrassing for sure, I wish it had not happened, but I am pleased the inspection process is good enough to catch it. 44m of welds sound like a lot, but it's not. A 10x10m compartment could easily have 96m of welds if not more.
From the article;

"will be repaired before it is handed over to the federal government early next year."The microscopic welding cracks initially were discovered three months ago on one of the science vessels, which is still under construction in North Vancouver."

snip
"A coast guard team monitoring construction flagged the issue as part of a detailed review, the company acknowledged.

It was spotted after the first two ships, including the Franklin, had passed their initial inspections. Subsequent retesting on all three vessels turned up the same fault.

The defects were traced to a semi-automated welding system installed as part of the shipyard's multi-million dollar upgrade."


Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2018, 14:52:10 »
Davie reports the Viking vessels have arrived


Offline Uzlu

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #155 on: October 23, 2018, 08:02:14 »
Quote
'Interim' icebreakers to be used for decades

OTTAWA — The Canadian Coast Guard says three "interim" icebreakers that were recently purchased without a competition will be used for the next 15 to 20 years.

Coast guard officials revealed the timeframe in interviews with The Canadian Press while playing down concerns about the state of their aging fleet — and the challenges in building replacements.

The government in August agreed to sole-sourcing the purchase of three used icebreakers from Davie Shipbuilding for $610 million, saying a stop-gap was needed until replacements could be built.

The deal represented a win for the Quebec-based shipyard, which had been lobbying hard for additional federal work, and should ease pressure on the coast guard's icebreaking fleet.

The coast guard's existing vessels are on average more than 35 years old and have lost hundreds of operational days over the past few years due to mechanical breakdowns.

Yet there are no immediate plans to replace them; the government's multibillion-dollar shipbuilding plan includes only one new heavy icebreaker, which won't be ready until the next decade.

Deputy Commissioner Andy Smith said the coast guard is instead in the midst of extending the life of its current fleet another 20 years — during which it will rely on the Davie ships to fill any gaps.

"The icebreakers that we recently purchased were envisioned to backfill behind those various ships as we put them into a refit or an extended maintenance period," Smith said in an interview.

"And we have mapped that out over 20 years."

Assistant Commissioner Mario Pelletier confirmed that time period in a separate interview, saying: "I would expect that we're going to have them for 15, 20 years.

"The urgent need is just to make sure we do have a surge capacity to backfill when those ships come out of service," he added.

While few would argue the need for additional icebreakers, the timeline has nevertheless resulted in fresh criticism of the country's procurement system — and questions about the shipbuilding plan.

The federal government previously purchased "interim" icebreakers in the 1980s and those vessels are still in use, said Rob Huebert, an expert on the Arctic at the University of Calgary.

That, plus the absence of any real plan to replace the majority of the coast guard's icebreakers, leads Huebert to believe the three Davie ships will eventually become part of the permanent fleet.

"What's going to happen is we have been overworking our three medium icebreakers and those three (Davie ships) will replace them even though no one is saying they're replacing them," he said.

The two Canadian Coast Guard officials both insisted that the Davie deal would not undercut the shipbuilding plan, through which Vancouver Shipyards is building several coast guard ships.

Those include three fisheries-science ships, an ocean-science vessel and a heavy icebreaker, in that order. Two naval support ships will be built between the ocean-science vessel and the icebreaker.

But defence analyst David Perry of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute wondered whether calling the Davie deal an "interim" measure was intended to sidestep the plan — and any legal trouble.

Either way, he said, the arrangement only underscores many of the enduring issues facing Canada's troubled procurement system and the long amount of time it takes to buy new equipment.

"If they're defining an interim period being up to 20 years, only in Canada is that considered an interim basis," he said, noting that the shipbuilding plan is already years behind schedule.

"Only in a country where you run things for 40-plus years is two decades a temporary solution."

Smith and Pelletier said the current coast guard fleet is nonetheless in good shape and that there are positive signs of progress at Vancouver Shipbuilding, despite some hiccups.

Those included a welding problem discovered on the three fisheries-science ships that has pushed back delivery of the first of those vessels until next year.

The design and budget for the ocean-science ship also remains up in the air, while the construction schedule for the navy support ships and heavy icebreaker remain in limbo.

"It's really a dynamic time as we look to regrow the whole ecosystem of shipbuilding in this country, and they are in various stages of design and construction," Smith said of the challenges.

"So that whole ecosystem is being rebuilt."
https://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/news-story/8982113--interim-icebreakers-to-be-used-for-decades/

Offline YZT580

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #156 on: October 23, 2018, 10:06:33 »
Interim doesn't just apply to ships either in our government's method of working.  In 1969 I can recall attending meetings in temporary building no. 4 (yes that was its name).  Temp. 4 was put up during WW2 and intended only for the duration.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #157 on: October 25, 2018, 10:58:29 »
Let's create a "new zone" that does not have any resources. Currently all the resources (ships and crews) come from the South and have tasks down there as well. Must be an election coming....

https://panow.com/article/796062/canadian-coast-guard-increase-focus-arctic-new-zone


Online Chris Pook

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #158 on: October 25, 2018, 11:49:26 »
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #159 on: November 08, 2018, 11:27:43 »
On. And on. And on:

Quote
Coast guard looks to squeeze more years from oldest ship
55-year-old science vessel CCGS Hudson will be around for at least 5 more years

The Canadian Coast Guard plans to squeeze another five years of service, and maybe more, out of the oldest vessel in its fleet.

The 55-year-old science vessel Hudson [details at CCG https://inter-j01.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fdat/vessels/71 ] is one more example of the uncertainty surrounding Canada's shipbuilding program.

CCGS Hudson was supposed to be replaced as early as 2014 as part of the National Shipbuilding Strategy. But the project to build the replacement at Vancouver's Seaspan shipyard still has no budget, confirmed construction start date or timeline for completion.

In the meantime, the Hudson is now expected to be in service until 2023 and possibly longer.

"At least, yes," said Mario Pelletier, the coast guard's deputy commissioner. "As we get closer to those dates we will look and … see if we need the ship around for a bit longer. We'll look at the work that needs to be done."

The goal, he said, is to keep the Hudson in operation until a new offshore oceanographic science vessel is delivered...

The coast guard is hoping a planned refit this winter will allow the Hudson to obtain regulatory approvals to keep it in service for another five-year cycle.

"What we are doing is resetting the clock and make sure she can last for the next five years, safely and reliably," Pelletier said.

Replacing the Hudson has been a sliding target since a new science vessel was promised by the Harper government in 2011.

By 2013, coast guard officials were predicting a replacement would be sailing in 2017. The cost then was estimated at $144 million.

The most recent federal government update on the project has a new vessel in service by late 2021 or early 2022. The budget, pegged at $331 million, is under review
[emphasis added]...

David Perry of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute is not surprised by the developments.

He said the timing of the Hudson replacement was thrown further into doubt earlier this year when Ottawa announced construction would soon begin on the Royal Canadian Navy joint-support vessel at Seaspan.

Seaspan was supposed to build the new offshore oceanographic science vessel first.

"It would seem the joint-support ship and the navy project is a bit more mature and ready to go," said Perry.

"If they are saying they are not expecting it (Hudson replacement) until 2023-24, that may mean it will come after the joint-support ships...

The coast guard said construction of the new vessel is expected to begin in 2019.

"The build contract is being negotiated which will determine the project schedule and ultimately the delivery date," Benoit Mayrand of coast guard communications said in a statement.

Nicolas Insley, Seaspan communications manager, added the contract will determine the cost and timeline for the vessel...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coast-guard-vessel-hudson-refit-replacement-shipbuilding-strategy-1.4887361

Mark
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Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #160 on: November 08, 2018, 11:32:39 »
Atlantic Eagle is now at the CCG Dock in Victoria, not sure how they plan to man it, if they don't use a Master from out here, then they need a pilot everywhere she goes.


Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #161 on: November 08, 2018, 13:59:14 »
Did they paint the Eagle red?

The Raven is still Atlantic Towing orange, but they added a big white coast Guard style stripe.

Not sure what the cradles on deck were for, but there were extra bollards welded on either side of the stern roller for the canal passage.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 14:04:51 by Not a Sig Op »
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #162 on: November 08, 2018, 14:00:58 »
adds 2.3 kts......  8)

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #163 on: November 08, 2018, 14:31:15 »
Atlantic Eagle is now at the CCG Dock in Victoria, not sure how they plan to man it, if they don't use a Master from out here, then they need a pilot everywhere she goes out.

Doesn't have to be the master, as long as there's a qualified pilot on board for the harbour.
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #164 on: November 08, 2018, 15:55:23 »
yes but if they start patrolling this coast, then they need a qualified Master and since none of Irving guys work out here that I am aware of, they need a new Master, as they could not afford a pilot 24/7.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #165 on: November 08, 2018, 16:24:20 »
yes but if they start patrolling this coast, then they need a qualified Master and since none of Irving guys work out here that I am aware of, they need a new Master, as they could not afford a pilot 24/7.

Doesn't need to be the master though, could be another officer or could be a coast Guard officer attached to the vessel.
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #166 on: November 08, 2018, 16:55:47 »
If it meets the Pilotage regs, the exemption applies to Master not to the ship. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1270/FullText.html

(3) Subject to subsections (4) to (6), the Authority may waive compulsory pilotage in respect of a ship under 10 000 gross tons if all persons in charge of the deck watch

    (a) hold certificates of competency of the proper class and category of voyage for the ship that are required by Part 2 of the Marine Personnel Regulations;

    (b) have served either 150 days of service in the preceding 18 months or 365 days of service in the preceding 60 months, of which 60 days must have been served in the preceding 24 months, at sea as a person in charge of the deck watch on one or more ships on voyages in the region or engaged in the coastal trade; and

    (c) have served as persons in charge of the deck watch in the compulsory pilotage area for which the waiver is sought on one or more occasions during the preceding 24 months.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #167 on: November 09, 2018, 02:33:57 »
If it meets the Pilotage regs, the exemption applies to Master not to the ship. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1270/FullText.html


I may be mistaken but, not a waiver, my understanding is the master doesn't need to be the one holding the pilots license, you just need a licensed pilot on board.

I could well be out to lunch, but I'm fairly certain I sailed on a vessel a while back with a foreign master and a local chief officer, for that reason (then again maybe we had a waiver, but the chief officer held a masters ticket and a pilots license)

And apparently the cradles on the Ravens deck were for a pair of new 40' life boats being transported to the west coast.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 02:42:23 by Not a Sig Op »
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #168 on: November 09, 2018, 12:12:49 »
I won't call myself an expert, though this subject has come up with First Nation Consultations due to waivers given to US tugs, two types of waivers, one for not having a pilot onboard on a regular trip and another for permission to seek sheltered piloted waters without a pilot, a US tug just had to seek that and the head of the Pilotage Authority was criticized for giving it to the tug, although it was the right thing to do at the time. I have to talk with the Pilots about something else, I ask them about this as I am interested as well.


40' lifeboats? Any pictures?

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #169 on: November 09, 2018, 13:16:30 »
Sorry, no pictures.
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #170 on: November 09, 2018, 13:18:42 »
40' lifeboats? Any pictures?

No, saw pictures of them being loaded on facebook, but cant find the post now.

The new "bay" class lifeboats, i assume for the west coast.

Probably stopped in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia to pick them up enroute to Panama.
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #171 on: November 09, 2018, 13:21:23 »
I won't call myself an expert, though this subject has come up with First Nation Consultations due to waivers given to US tugs, two types of waivers, one for not having a pilot onboard on a regular trip and another for permission to seek sheltered piloted waters without a pilot, a US tug just had to seek that and the head of the Pilotage Authority was criticized for giving it to the tug, although it was the right thing to do at the time. I have to talk with the Pilots about something else, I ask them about this as I am interested as well.


40' lifeboats? Any pictures?

From J.D. Irving Twitter feed...

Offline Swampbuggy

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #172 on: November 09, 2018, 13:22:31 »
D’oh!! Stupid me...

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #173 on: November 09, 2018, 13:27:01 »
CCGS Penant Bay's first rescue was CCGS Harp... hopefully they have more luck with them on the west coast!
Remember troops, the minimum acceptable standard is still an acceptable standard.

Offline Colin P

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Re: "Canadian Coast Guard Going Down"
« Reply #174 on: November 09, 2018, 19:41:12 »
looks like they just used her to save shipping costs :)