Author Topic: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight  (Read 337525 times)

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #825 on: May 06, 2019, 13:46:10 »
It's independent of the politicians and now baked into the civilian bureaucracy DNA.  Saw open source background information all labeled as cabinet confidence just because it was part of a briefing package.

Sometimes, even the fact that there is interest in topic X can warrant designation of information as a cabinet confidence.  And, when included with the larger package, the open source info is considered a cabinet confidence.

Quote
If it's designated as secret, it should be judiciously used and not the default. Because of how broadly it's applied, it's not taken seriously compared to actual secret data, and very few offices actually have the IT required to support it anyway, so pretty half assed. I think if they took it seriously on the IT side and realized it would cost millions as a result of the blanket coverage.

Agreed that over-designation is unfortunately common.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #826 on: May 06, 2019, 13:55:22 »
They asked me to prepare a Memo to Cabinet which required a Secret clearance, I advised them that my clearance had expired. But because I was the SME, they said "don't worry about it". Sigh....

I can think of only 1 time in my office career being asked about whether i had the correct clearance for a briefing prior to it.

I also knew of one employee that worked from home on Secret Clearance stuff and MoC's. Except "home" was just across the border in Washington State. I can imagine if one day the US border services searched their computer and found Secret level docs. A quick call to Ottawa Foreign Services; "Does so and so have clearance to take these docs out of the country?" The answer would be no and they would be in jail till it was cleared up and likely a few careers spurting to a halt. I tried warning people, but it fell on deaf ears as the employee was tagged as a potentiel up and comer.

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #827 on: May 07, 2019, 21:01:19 »
Article Link

Federal government expected to withdraw breach of trust charge against Mark Norman

His lawyers have always maintained that, as they put it in a third-party records application last fall, 'Vice-Admiral Norman is not the right person standing trial'

The federal government is expected to pull the plug on its prosecution of Vice-Admiral Mark Norman for alleged breach of trust, the National Post has learned.

The case is back in court on Wednesday for what was to have been a brief scheduled update on the progress of the government’s efforts at disclosing documents to Norman’s defence team.

Sources have confirmed that the prosecution will withdraw the charge instead.

The tip-off was an unusual alert from the Public Prosecution Service of Canada sent late Tuesday to reporters who have been following the case.

“The Public Prosecution of Canada would like to advise you that there is a scheduled appearance May 8, 2019 at 10:00 am in courtroom # 11 in the Mark Norman prosecution. You may wish to attend,” said the prosecution’s media advisory released at 6:52 p.m. ET.

It is unclear why exactly the government appears ready to end the case.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 21:05:22 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #828 on: May 07, 2019, 21:05:26 »
So what happens now?  Retirement and lucrative job elsewhere?  I doubt he'll want to go back to his old job (even if he could) now.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #829 on: May 07, 2019, 21:21:11 »
Makes good political sense.  Last thing the PM wants is this surfacing in the press again right before October.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 21:27:49 by Haggis »
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Offline ballz

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #830 on: May 07, 2019, 21:23:11 »
Makes good political sense.  Last thing the PM wants is this surfacing i the press again right before October.

But the PPSC is independent..................................................................................... :whistle:
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #831 on: May 07, 2019, 21:28:10 »
But the PPSC is independent..................................................................................... :whistle:

Where did you hear that?
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #832 on: May 07, 2019, 21:28:28 »
Hmmm....Can you refuse to let them drop the charges??
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Offline Brihard

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #833 on: May 07, 2019, 21:32:01 »
Hmmm....Can you refuse to let them drop the charges??

No.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #834 on: May 07, 2019, 21:43:10 »
...or sue for malicious prosecution?

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #835 on: May 07, 2019, 21:50:45 »
...or sue for malicious prosecution?

They're probably hoping he doesn't have money left to do that.

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #836 on: May 07, 2019, 22:39:16 »
They're probably hoping he doesn't have money left to do that.

I bet there are any number of lawyers willing to do that on a contingency basis.

The more interesting question is whether his legal fees will now be paid by the government and whether or not he will be reinstated. I'm not sure how they could refuse.

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #837 on: May 07, 2019, 22:49:34 »
Perhaps Leslie had more to contribute than just a character witness?  If I were running the Lib. campaign I would ask for the case to be dropped too.  Also, with it gone, they just have to wait a couple of weeks for the noise to die down and then they can let SNC off the hook.

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #838 on: May 08, 2019, 06:18:47 »
Clobal News is reporting that the case against VADM Norman may be dropped.

More at the National Post.

Let the fun begin!!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 06:31:42 by Retired AF Guy »
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #839 on: May 08, 2019, 07:54:49 »
They're probably hoping he doesn't have money left to do that.

Well I will state openly and clearly that I contributed to his 'Go Fund Me' campaign.

And I would do so again if he needed more.

Offline Sprinting Thistle

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #840 on: May 08, 2019, 08:07:09 »
Curious to see two things:
- what the CDS' response will be to this change; and
- how Trudeau will walk back from his comment in 2018 about this going to court. 
If you remember, back in Feb 2018 Trudeau stated, "I won’t say much, other than to say I took the advice of our chief of defence staff on this particular case,” and “I trust our public service in their capacity to make determinations about what actually needs to happen in cases like this"  Will Trudeau circle back and try to place all of the blame on the CDS for so-called bad advice, which seems to be his SOP.  Will be the CDS be told to take the fall, much like Butts and Wernick?

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #841 on: May 08, 2019, 08:15:58 »
Maybe they finally figured out that the Court would be well placed to address Pandora’s Box of things the public hadn’t heard about yet?

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #842 on: May 08, 2019, 08:25:31 »
But we're assured that the PMO doesn't influence the DPP office.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #843 on: May 08, 2019, 10:24:47 »
Article Link

Federal prosecutors drop breach of trust charge against Vice-Admiral Mark Norman

The Public Prosecution Service of Canada has dropped a single breach of trust charge against Vice-Admiral Mark Norman.

Norman had been accused of leaking cabinet secrets in relation to a $668-million shipbuilding deal to lease a supply vessel to both an executive at the Davie Shipyard, in Levis, Que., which leased a supply ship to the navy, and to a CBC journalist.

The high-profile, politically charged case has seen the Liberal government face allegations of political interference from both the Opposition Conservatives and Norman's defence team, including Toronto lawyer Marie Henein.

The defence had claimed, in both arguments and court filings, that the Prime Minister's Office and the Privy Council Office had attempted to orchestrate the prosecution of the case.

CBC News confirmed late Tuesday that prosecutors intended to drop the charge, after the federal prosecution service took the unusual step of advising reporters they "may wish to attend" the court proceeding this morning. The news was initially reported by The National Post.

Andrew Leslie, a retired lieutenant-general who was elected in 2015, announced May 1 he was stepping away from politics after one term as a Liberal MP.

When Norman arrived at the Ottawa courthouse Wednesday morning, he was greeted by Leslie, who was set to testify for the defence.

Norman had little to say to reporters on his way in.

"It's a beautiful day, thank you," he said.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #844 on: May 08, 2019, 10:34:11 »
Just watched a poor Crown Prosocuter being hung out to dry in that media scrum.  Thought she was going to start crying...
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Offline CloudCover

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #845 on: May 08, 2019, 10:37:47 »
Because she was ordered to lie and say there was no political interference. The next question to her was, "who was withholding the cabinet documents" and she would not answer. 
... Move!! ...

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #846 on: May 08, 2019, 10:42:47 »
And the CTV news guy described it as she "ran away from the scrum".
A good point he noted is the Crown says the charges are 'stayed", yet the Prosecutor answered that "this is done".  That's not "stayed" then, that should be a "withdrawn".
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #847 on: May 08, 2019, 10:43:44 »
Interestingly his defence fund raised 4800$  in the past 24hrs.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #848 on: May 08, 2019, 10:46:52 »
They won't withdraw as that makes it one little nudge easier for him to sue. By "staying" the government can still smear him and threaten to reintroduce the charges.
Interesting that Leslie was there and was clearly supporting him.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #849 on: May 08, 2019, 10:48:55 »
Updated CBC article...

The Public Prosecution Service of Canada has dropped a single breach of trust charge against Vice-Admiral Mark Norman.

The Crown said new information came to light thanks to Norman's defence team digging through documents, and that there is no reasonable chance of conviction.

The prosecution said Norman's actions were inappropriate and secretive, but that doesn't mean a crime was committed.

"Inappropriate does not mean criminal," said Barbara Mercier, the lead prosecutor.

She also emphasized there was no political interference in the case.

Norman had been accused of leaking cabinet secrets in relation to a $668-million shipbuilding deal to lease a supply vessel to both an executive at the Davie Shipyard, in Levis, Que., which leased a supply ship to the navy, and to a CBC journalist.

The high-profile, politically charged case has seen the Liberal government face allegations of political interference from both the Opposition Conservatives and Norman's defence team, including Toronto lawyer Marie Henein.

The defence had claimed, in both arguments and court filings, that the Prime Minister's Office and the Privy Council Office had attempted to orchestrate the prosecution of the case.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declined to comment on the case on his way into a Liberal caucus meeting.

"The process involved in a public prosecution like this is entirely independent of my office," he said. "It's an independent process and we have confidence in the work done by the director of public prosecutions."
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