Author Topic: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)  (Read 103457 times)

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Offline muskrat89

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #800 on: May 18, 2017, 00:09:24 »
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2017/05/16/guests-remind-nbc-cnn-obama-gave-classified-intel-russia

I know, I know... that was....
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different

Funny that someone was so incensed about Trump giving the Russians info, that they gave it to the Washington Post lol
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #801 on: May 18, 2017, 11:20:45 »
Robert Mueller, another Marine (and Vietnam Vet).
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #802 on: May 21, 2017, 17:42:21 »
Big speech in Saudi today (also attached if link doesn't work for you) -- credit where due, POTUS45 seems to have hit all the right chords - highlights mine ...
Quote
President Trump’s Speech to the Arab Islamic American Summit
Remarks as prepared for delivery

Thank You.

I want to thank King Salman for his extraordinary words, and the magnificent Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for hosting today’s summit. I am honored to be received by such gracious hosts. I have always heard about the splendor of your country and the kindness of your citizens, but words do not do justice to the grandeur of this remarkable place and the incredible hospitality you have shown us from the moment we arrived.

You also hosted me in the treasured home of King Abdulaziz, the founder of the Kingdom who united your great people. Working alongside another beloved leader – American President Franklin Roosevelt – King Abdulaziz began the enduring partnership between our two countries. King Salman: your father would be so proud to see that you are continuing his legacy – and just as he opened the first chapter in our partnership, today we begin a new chapter that will bring lasting benefits to our citizens.

Let me now also extend my deep and heartfelt gratitude to each and every one of the distinguished heads of state who made this journey here today. You greatly honor us with your presence, and I send the warmest regards from my country to yours. I know that our time together will bring many blessings to both your people and mine.

I stand before you as a representative of the American People, to deliver a message of friendship and hope. That is why I chose to make my first foreign visit a trip to the heart of the Muslim world, to the nation that serves as custodian of the two holiest sites in the Islamic Faith.

In my inaugural address to the American People, I pledged to strengthen America’s oldest friendships, and to build new partnerships in pursuit of peace. I also promised that America will not seek to impose our way of life on others, but to outstretch our hands in the spirit of cooperation and trust.

Our vision is one of peace, security, and prosperity—in this region, and in the world.

Our goal is a coalition of nations who share the aim of stamping out extremism and providing our children a hopeful future that does honor to God.

And so this historic and unprecedented gathering of leaders—unique in the history of nations—is a symbol to the world of our shared resolve and our mutual respect. To the leaders and citizens of every country assembled here today, I want you to know that the United States is eager to form closer bonds of friendship, security, culture and commerce.

For Americans, this is an exciting time. A new spirit of optimism is sweeping our country: in just a few months, we have created almost a million new jobs, added over 3 trillion dollars of new value, lifted the burdens on American industry, and made record investments in our military that will protect the safety of our people and enhance the security of our wonderful friends and allies – many of whom are here today.

Now, there is even more blessed news I am pleased to share with you. My meetings with King Salman, the Crown Prince, and the Deputy Crown Prince, have been filled with great warmth, good will, and tremendous cooperation.

Yesterday, we signed historic agreements with the Kingdom that will invest almost $400 billion in our two countries and create many thousands of jobs in America and Saudi Arabia.

This landmark agreement includes the announcement of a $110 billion Saudi-funded defense purchase – and we will be sure to help our Saudi friends to get a good deal from our great American defense companies. This agreement will help the Saudi military to take a greater role in security operations.

We have also started discussions with many of the countries present today on strengthening partnerships, and forming new ones, to advance security and stability across the Middle East and beyond.

Later today, we will make history again with the opening of a new Global Center for Combating Extremist Ideology – located right here, in this central part of the Islamic World. This groundbreaking new center represents a clear declaration that Muslim-majority countries must take the lead in combatting radicalization, and I want to express our gratitude to King Salman for this strong demonstration of leadership.

I have had the pleasure of welcoming several of the leaders present today to the White House, and I look forward to working with all of you.

America is a sovereign nation and our first priority is always the safety and security of our citizens. We are not here to lecture—we are not here to tell other people how to live, what to do, who to be, or how to worship. Instead, we are here to offer partnership – based on shared interests and values – to pursue a better future for us all.

Here at this summit we will discuss many interests we share together. But above all we must be united in pursuing the one goal that transcends every other consideration. That goal is to meet history’s great test—to conquer extremism and vanquish the forces of terrorism.

Young Muslim boys and girls should be able to grow up free from fear, safe from violence, and innocent of hatred.

And young Muslim men and women should have the chance to build a new era of prosperity for themselves and their peoples.


God’s help, this summit will mark the beginning of the end for those who practice terror and spread its vile creed. At the same time, we pray this special gathering may someday be remembered as the beginning of peace in the Middle East – and maybe, even all over the world.

But this future can only be achieved through defeating terrorism and the ideology that drives it.

Few nations have been spared its violent reach.

America has suffered repeated barbaric attacks – from the atrocities of September 11th to the devastation of the Boston Bombing, to the horrible killings in San Bernardino and Orlando.

The nations of Europe have also endured unspeakable horror. So too have the nations of Africa and even South America. India, Russia, China and Australia have been victims.

But, in sheer numbers, the deadliest toll has been exacted on the innocent people of Arab, Muslim and Middle Eastern nations. They have borne the brunt of the killings and the worst of the destruction in this wave of fanatical violence.

Some estimates hold that more than 95 percent of the victims of terrorism are themselves Muslim.


We now face a humanitarian and security disaster in this region that is spreading across the planet. It is a tragedy of epic proportions. No description of the suffering and depravity can begin to capture its full measure.

The true toll of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, and so many others, must be counted not only in the number of dead. It must also be counted in generations of vanished dreams.

The Middle East is rich with natural beauty, vibrant cultures, and massive amounts of historic treasures. It should increasingly become one of the great global centers of commerce and opportunity.

This region should not be a place from which refugees flee, but to which newcomers flock.

Saudi Arabia is home to the holiest sites in one of the world’s great faiths. Each year millions of Muslims come from around the world to Saudi Arabia to take part in the Hajj. In addition to ancient wonders, this country is also home to modern ones—including soaring achievements in architecture.

Egypt was a thriving center of learning and achievement thousands of years before other parts of the world. The wonders of Giza, Luxor and Alexandria are proud monuments to that ancient heritage.

All over the world, people dream of walking through the ruins of Petra in Jordan. Iraq was the cradle of civilization and is a land of natural beauty. And the United Arab Emirates has reached incredible heights with glass and steel, and turned earth and water into spectacular works of art.

The entire region is at the center of the key shipping lanes of the Suez Canal, the Red Sea, and the Straits of Hormuz.

The potential of this region has never been greater. 65 percent of its population is under the age of 30. Like all young men and women, they seek great futures to build, great national projects to join, and a place for their families to call home.

But this untapped potential, this tremendous cause for optimism, is held at bay by bloodshed and terror. There can be no coexistence with this violence.

There can be no tolerating it, no accepting it, no excusing it, and no ignoring it.

Every time a terrorist murders an innocent person, and falsely invokes the name of God, it should be an insult to every person of faith.

Terrorists do not worship God, they worship death.


If we do not act against this organized terror, then we know what will happen. Terrorism’s devastation of life will continue to spread. Peaceful societies will become engulfed by violence. And the futures of many generations will be sadly squandered.

If we do not stand in uniform condemnation of this killing—then not only will we be judged by our people, not only will we be judged by history, but we will be judged by God.

This is not a battle between different faiths, different sects, or different civilizations.

This is a battle between barbaric criminals who seek to obliterate human life, and decent people of all religions who seek to protect it.

This is a battle between Good and Evil.


When we see the scenes of destruction in the wake of terror, we see no signs that those murdered were Jewish or Christian, Shia or Sunni. When we look upon the streams of innocent blood soaked into the ancient ground, we cannot see the faith or sect or tribe of the victims – we see only that they were Children of God whose deaths are an insult to all that is holy.

But we can only overcome this evil if the forces of good are united and strong – and if everyone in this room does their fair share and fulfills their part of the burden.

Terrorism has spread across the world. But the path to peace begins right here, on this ancient soil, in this sacred land.

America is prepared to stand with you – in pursuit of shared interests and common security.

But the nations of the Middle East cannot wait for American power to crush this enemy for them. The nations of the Middle East will have to decide what kind of future they want for themselves, for their countries, and for their children.

It is a choice between two futures – and it is a choice America CANNOT make for you.

A better future is only possible if your nations drive out the terrorists and extremists. Drive. Them. Out. DRIVE THEM OUT of your places of worship. DRIVE THEM OUT of your communities. DRIVE THEM OUT of your holy land, and DRIVE THEM OUT OF THIS EARTH.

For our part, America is committed to adjusting our strategies to meet evolving threats and new facts. We will discard those strategies that have not worked—and will apply new approaches informed by experience and judgment. We are adopting a Principled Realism, rooted in common values and shared interests.

Our friends will never question our support, and our enemies will never doubt our determination. Our partnerships will advance security through stability, not through radical disruption. We will make decisions based on real-world outcomes – not inflexible ideology. We will be guided by the lessons of experience, not the confines of rigid thinking. And, wherever possible, we will seek gradual reforms – not sudden intervention.

We must seek partners, not perfection—and to make allies of all who share our goals.

Above all, America seeks peace – not war.

Muslim nations must be willing to take on the burden, if we are going to defeat terrorism and send its wicked ideology into oblivion.

The first task in this joint effort is for your nations to deny all territory to the foot soldiers of evil. Every country in the region has an absolute duty to ensure that terrorists find no sanctuary on their soil.

Many are already making significant contributions to regional security: Jordanian pilots are crucial partners against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Saudi Arabia and a regional coalition have taken strong action against Houthi militants in Yemen. The Lebanese Army is hunting ISIS operatives who try to infiltrate their territory. Emirati troops are supporting our Afghan partners. In Mosul, American troops are supporting Kurds, Sunnis and Shias fighting together for their homeland. Qatar, which hosts the U.S. Central Command, is a crucial strategic partner. Our longstanding partnership with Kuwait and Bahrain continue to enhance security in the region. And courageous Afghan soldiers are making tremendous sacrifices in the fight against the Taliban, and others, in the fight for their country.

As we deny terrorist organizations control of territory and populations, we must also strip them of their access to funds. We must cut off the financial channels that let ISIS sell oil, let extremists pay their fighters, and help terrorists smuggle their reinforcements.

I am proud to announce that the nations here today will be signing an agreement to prevent the financing of terrorism, called the Terrorist Financing Targeting Center – co-chaired by the United States and Saudi Arabia, and joined by every member of the Gulf Cooperation Council. It is another historic step in a day that will be long remembered.

I also applaud the Gulf Cooperation Council for blocking funders from using their countries as a financial base for terror, and designating Hezbollah as a terrorist organization last year. Saudi Arabia also joined us this week in placing sanctions on one of the most senior leaders of Hezbollah.

Of course, there is still much work to do.

That means honestly confronting the crisis of Islamist extremism and the Islamist terror groups it inspires. And it means standing together against the murder of innocent Muslims, the oppression of women, the persecution of Jews, and the slaughter of Christians.

Religious leaders must make this absolutely clear: Barbarism will deliver you no glory – piety to evil will bring you no dignity. If you choose the path of terror, your life will be empty, your life will be brief, and YOUR SOUL WILL BE CONDEMNED.

And political leaders must speak out to affirm the same idea: heroes don’t kill innocents; they save them.
Many nations here today have taken important steps to raise up that message. Saudi Arabia’s Vision for 2030 is an important and encouraging statement of tolerance, respect, empowering women, and economic development.

The United Arab Emirates has also engaged in the battle for hearts and souls—and with the U.S., launched a center to counter the online spread of hate. Bahrain too is working to undermine recruitment and radicalism.

I also applaud Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon for their role in hosting refugees. The surge of migrants and refugees leaving the Middle East depletes the human capital needed to build stable societies and economies. Instead of depriving this region of so much human potential, Middle Eastern countries can give young people hope for a brighter future in their home nations and regions.

That means promoting the aspirations and dreams of all citizens who seek a better life – including women, children, and followers of all faiths. Numerous Arab and Islamic scholars have eloquently argued that protecting equality strengthens Arab and Muslim communities.

For many centuries the Middle East has been home to Christians, Muslims and Jews living side-by-side. We must practice tolerance and respect for each other once again—and make this region a place where every man and woman, no matter their faith or ethnicity, can enjoy a life of dignity and hope.


In that spirit, after concluding my visit in Riyadh, I will travel to Jerusalem and Bethlehem, and then to the Vatican – visiting many of the holiest places in the three Abrahamic Faiths. If these three faiths can join together in cooperation, then peace in this world is possible – including peace between Israelis and Palestinians. I will be meeting with both Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ...
1/2
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #803 on: May 21, 2017, 17:43:04 »
Trump speech in Saudi -- 2/2
Quote
... Starving terrorists of their territory, their funding, and the false allure of their craven ideology, will be the basis for defeating them.

But no discussion of stamping out this threat would be complete without mentioning the government that gives terrorists all three—safe harbor, financial backing, and the social standing needed for recruitment. It is a regime that is responsible for so much instability in the region. I am speaking of course of Iran.

From Lebanon to Iraq to Yemen, Iran funds, arms, and trains terrorists, militias, and other extremist groups that spread destruction and chaos across the region. For decades, Iran has fueled the fires of sectarian conflict and terror.

It is a government that speaks openly of mass murder, vowing the destruction of Israel, death to America, and ruin for many leaders and nations in this room.

Among Iran’s most tragic and destabilizing interventions have been in Syria. Bolstered by Iran, Assad has committed unspeakable crimes, and the United States has taken firm action in response to the use of banned chemical weapons by the Assad Regime – launching 59 tomahawk missiles at the Syrian air base from where that murderous attack originated.

Responsible nations must work together to end the humanitarian crisis in Syria, eradicate ISIS, and restore stability to the region.

The Iranian regime’s longest-suffering victims are its own people. Iran has a rich history and culture, but the people of Iran have endured hardship and despair under their leaders’ reckless pursuit of conflict and terror.

Until the Iranian regime is willing to be a partner for peace, all nations of conscience must work together to isolate Iran, deny it funding for terrorism, and pray for the day when the Iranian people have the just and righteous government they deserve.

The decisions we make will affect countless lives.

King Salman, I thank you for the creation of this great moment in history, and for your massive investment in America, its industry and its jobs. I also thank you for investing in the future of this part of the world.

This fertile region has all the ingredients for extraordinary success – a rich history and culture, a young and vibrant people, a thriving spirit of enterprise. But you can only unlock this future if the citizens of the Middle East are freed from extremism, terror and violence.

We in this room are the leaders of our peoples. They look to us for answers, and for action. And when we look back at their faces, behind every pair of eyes is a soul that yearns for justice.

Today, billions of faces are now looking at us, waiting for us to act on the great question of our time.

Will we be indifferent in the presence of evil? Will we protect our citizens from its violent ideology? Will we let its venom spread through our societies? Will we let it destroy the most holy sites on earth?

If we do not confront this deadly terror, we know what the future will bring—more suffering and despair.

But if we act—if we leave this magnificent room unified and determined to do what it takes to destroy the terror that threatens the world—then there is no limit to the great future our citizens will have.

The birthplace of civilization is waiting to begin a new renaissance. Just imagine what tomorrow could bring.

Glorious wonders of science, art, medicine and commerce to inspire humankind. Great cities built on the ruins of shattered towns. New jobs and industries that will lift up millions of people. Parents who no longer worry for their children, families who no longer mourn for their loved ones, and the faithful who finally worship without fear.

These are the blessings of prosperity and peace. These are the desires that burn with a righteous flame in every human heart. And these are the just demands of our beloved peoples.

I ask you to join me, to join together, to work together, and to FIGHT together— BECAUSE UNITED, WE WILL NOT FAIL.

Thank you. God Bless You. God Bless Your Countries. And God Bless the United States of America.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 06:54:11 by milnews.ca »
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #804 on: May 22, 2017, 20:47:20 »
He still isn't calling out those elements of the house of Saud that are as involved with terrorist groups as Iran is.  Once again, SA gets a pass.
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #805 on: May 23, 2017, 11:56:26 »
He still isn't calling out those elements of the house of Saud that are as involved with terrorist groups as Iran is.  Once again, SA gets a pass.

He can't catch a break can he.

A sitting POTUS, historic visit, addressing all ME leaders in person, except Iran. He defined the enemy. The King shook hands with Melania, massive trade deals and sales. He finally, is the first person to tell the ME to sort out their own backyard. There's talk that SA will make the hijab optional and women will be allowed to drive, within a year. In one fell swoop, he has wiped out the Obama/ Clinton legacy in the ME, and all the contradictory, wasteful, deceitful dealings of the previous administration. He is strong and decisive, and they respect him as opposed to the weak mishmash of Obama/ Clinton politics. He used diplomacy and tact to get the deal started and on it's way, he decided not to antagonize or lecture the ME leadership and now has the ME on his side. Rather than publicly chastise and embarrass the Saud's, your concern was probably heavily spoken about behind closed doors. He is stick handling the Israel trip like a pro

Next the big scandal will be that he gets two scoops of couscous, when the Press Corps only gets one. It's time to stop with the nit picky, negative aspects, both real and imagined that the lunatic left and their MSM cronies are trying to use to be as negative and politically damaging to the POTUS and FLOTUS as possible. All out of spite because they hate that a sitting leader is actually following the rule of law and the Constitution. Harvard University has studied and proven that the main MSM outlets in the US are extremely biased toward the current President and staff (to the point, IIRC, that CNN leads the way as 90% negative).

He's doing great and accomplishing what he promised while completely surrounded by false narrative turmoil. Imagine what he could accomplish if he and his administration were unfettered by the propaganda war being waged by the anarchists, crooked politicians like Obama and his shadow government, Soros and his Tides Foundation, which funds BLM and ANTIFA amongst others and the Clinton Foundation (who are coming apart at the seams due to the current smuggling and fraud investigations) of which Chelsea, the current CEO, has gone on record and thrown her parents under the bus.

We're not in high school, childish sniping only works to destabilize, it seldom results in positive action. Especially, when statements are made out of ignorance and have no basis in fact.
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #806 on: May 23, 2017, 12:24:28 »
 :goodpost:
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #807 on: May 23, 2017, 12:37:16 »
He can't catch a break can he.

A sitting POTUS, historic visit, addressing all ME leaders in person, except Iran. He defined the enemy. The King shook hands with Melania, massive trade deals and sales. He finally, is the first person to tell the ME to sort out their own backyard. There's talk that SA will make the hijab optional and women will be allowed to drive, within a year. In one fell swoop, he has wiped out the Obama/ Clinton legacy in the ME, and all the contradictory, wasteful, deceitful dealings of the previous administration. He is strong and decisive, and they respect him as opposed to the weak mishmash of Obama/ Clinton politics. He used diplomacy and tact to get the deal started and on it's way, he decided not to antagonize or lecture the ME leadership and now has the ME on his side. Rather than publicly chastise and embarrass the Saud's, your concern was probably heavily spoken about behind closed doors. He is stick handling the Israel trip like a pro

Next the big scandal will be that he gets two scoops of couscous, when the Press Corps only gets one. It's time to stop with the nit picky, negative aspects, both real and imagined that the lunatic left and their MSM cronies are trying to use to be as negative and politically damaging to the POTUS and FLOTUS as possible. All out of spite because they hate that a sitting leader is actually following the rule of law and the Constitution. Harvard University has studied and proven that the main MSM outlets in the US are extremely biased toward the current President and staff (to the point, IIRC, that CNN leads the way as 90% negative).

He's doing great and accomplishing what he promised while completely surrounded by false narrative turmoil. Imagine what he could accomplish if he and his administration were unfettered by the propaganda war being waged by the anarchists, crooked politicians like Obama and his shadow government, Soros and his Tides Foundation, which funds BLM and ANTIFA amongst others and the Clinton Foundation (who are coming apart at the seams due to the current smuggling and fraud investigations) of which Chelsea, the current CEO, has gone on record and thrown her parents under the bus.

We're not in high school, childish sniping only works to destabilize, it seldom results in positive action. Especially, when statements are made out of ignorance and have no basis in fact.

 :rofl:

Let me see if I have his ME strategy right: Israel is to become friends with Palestine and then take up a common cause with its Arab neighbors against their true, common enemy, Iran. Absolutely brilliant. How could all the previous administrations and all the other world leaders have missed such a simple solution?

Oh. I understand that he didn't get two scoops of couscous; I gather he got his usual well done steak with ketchup.

To get away from the sarcasm, I simply can't understand how people who supported this man when he was a candidate can't see how ineffective he is now as the President. Blindly signing off on a series of executive orders slapped together by his staff and which overturn or nullify previous executive orders isn't leadership. Sending out silly tweets isn't leadership. Reneging and flip flopping on numerous promises made to his electorate isn't leadership. What you have is a man who is seriously uneducated in the matters of the world and who bows down to the opinions and advice of whichever of his trusted inner circle talks to him last.

How can you continue to make excuses for him? And please don't tell me that I'm a slave to the fake news media.

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #808 on: May 23, 2017, 12:38:21 »
... There's talk that SA will make the hijab optional and women will be allowed to drive, within a year...
As huge as Trump's speech is, I'll believe this when I see it.
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #809 on: May 23, 2017, 13:04:33 »
As huge as Trump's speech is, I'll believe this when I see it.

yeah...talk is just talk right now.
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #810 on: May 23, 2017, 13:16:31 »
Eight years of lies have succeeded in making all of us cynics  Yes he is uncouth, does not think before speaking (or so it seems) and has threatened the Canadian economy with disaster if we don't start paying for our own defense instead of relying on the U.S. economy to pay the bills. On the other hand he doesn't spend his time blaming the previous administration or opening up all the worm tins that the Clintons and the Obamas have left out.  Instead he has passed it all on to the justice department which is where it should be and he has simply ordered the various departments to provide solutions.  So other than being a loudmouth, what has he done so wrong?

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #811 on: May 23, 2017, 13:28:28 »
Eight years of lies have succeeded in making all of us cynics  Yes he is uncouth, does not think before speaking (or so it seems) and has threatened the Canadian economy with disaster if we don't start paying for our own defense instead of relying on the U.S. economy to pay the bills. On the other hand he doesn't spend his time blaming the previous administration or opening up all the worm tins that the Clintons and the Obamas have left out.  Instead he has passed it all on to the justice department which is where it should be and he has simply ordered the various departments to provide solutions.  So other than being a loudmouth, what has he done so wrong?

Wait what?  That's all he's done.  He spent the first several months of his administration blaming the Obama administration for everything under the sun.   I could provide you with dozens of examples if you want.

Edit spelling.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 13:39:38 by TheHead »

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #812 on: May 23, 2017, 13:31:31 »
:rofl:

Let me see if I have his ME strategy right: Israel is to become friends with Palestine and then take up a common cause with its Arab neighbors against their true, common enemy, Iran. Absolutely brilliant. How could all the previous administrations and all the other world leaders have missed such a simple solution?

Oh. I understand that he didn't get two scoops of couscous; I gather he got his usual well done steak with ketchup.

To get away from the sarcasm, I simply can't understand how people who supported this man when he was a candidate can't see how ineffective he is now as the President. Blindly signing off on a series of executive orders slapped together by his staff and which overturn or nullify previous executive orders isn't leadership. Sending out silly tweets isn't leadership. Reneging and flip flopping on numerous promises made to his electorate isn't leadership. What you have is a man who is seriously uneducated in the matters of the world and who bows down to the opinions and advice of whichever of his trusted inner circle talks to him last.

How can you continue to make excuses for him? And please don't tell me that I'm a slave to the fake news media.

:cheers:

One only has to look at the stock markets.  For a while it seemed as though market confidence in trump was strong but more and more it looks like that confidence is being shaken exactly because he isn't able to deliver on what he promised.
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Offline Remius

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #813 on: May 23, 2017, 13:37:11 »
Wait what?  That's all he's done.  He spend the first several months of his administration blaming the Obama administration for everything under the sun.   I could provide you with dozens of examples if you want.

he's also spent he last several months doing it as well.    [lol:
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #814 on: May 23, 2017, 14:04:30 »
I'll still take him over anything else that was on offer.

I'm not big on "a man with a plan".  Nor am I overly fond of supra-national organizations.



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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #815 on: May 23, 2017, 14:16:40 »
By the way -

The US interfered in the Canadian election - to the benefit of the Liberal Party and Justin Trudeau. Was there collusion?  What did Justin and Gerald Butts know and when did they know it?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/millions-in-foreign-funds-spent-in-2015-federal-election-to-defeat-harper-government-report-alleges
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Offline recceguy

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #816 on: May 23, 2017, 14:54:55 »
Given that Obama and Clinton sent Justine some of their top campaign strategists to help him get elected, I'm sure he and Butts knew plenty.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #817 on: May 23, 2017, 15:12:43 »
:rofl:

Let me see if I have his ME strategy right: Israel is to become friends with Palestine and then take up a common cause with its Arab neighbors against their true, common enemy, Iran. Absolutely brilliant. How could all the previous administrations and all the other world leaders have missed such a simple solution?

Oh. I understand that he didn't get two scoops of couscous; I gather he got his usual well done steak with ketchup.

To get away from the sarcasm, I simply can't understand how people who supported this man when he was a candidate can't see how ineffective he is now as the President. Blindly signing off on a series of executive orders slapped together by his staff and which overturn or nullify previous executive orders isn't leadership. Sending out silly tweets isn't leadership. Reneging and flip flopping on numerous promises made to his electorate isn't leadership. What you have is a man who is seriously uneducated in the matters of the world and who bows down to the opinions and advice of whichever of his trusted inner circle talks to him last.

How can you continue to make excuses for him? And please don't tell me that I'm a slave to the fake news media.

:cheers:

 :nevermind: As expected :boring:
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind.”

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Offline Remius

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #818 on: May 23, 2017, 15:26:28 »
Well to be honest I am sort of glad he's in.

I didn't want Clinton elected.  I certainly got the vote wrong.  I thought he was going to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college vote.  Got it backwards.

But the US needs this.  They need a child inn there playing with power tools to show them all just how effed up their system is.  They need a lesson that electing a guy like that isn't going to fix their issues but will highlight them and demonstrate that what came before may not be as bad as they thought.  Hopefully four years of this will have someone substantial and competent rise from the ashes of all of this. 
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #819 on: May 23, 2017, 15:52:05 »
Well to be honest I am sort of glad he's in.

I didn't want Clinton elected.  I certainly got the vote wrong.  I thought he was going to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college vote.  Got it backwards.

But the US needs this.  They need a child inn there playing with power tools to show them all just how effed up their system is.  They need a lesson that electing a guy like that isn't going to fix their issues but will highlight them and demonstrate that what came before may not be as bad as they thought.  Hopefully four years of this will have someone substantial and competent rise from the ashes of all of this.

Remius:

I'm not picking on you as you are far from the only individual anywhere that indulges themselves in this type of rhetoric.  You are in very good company.

I would just remind you, and those others, that it seldom does anybody any good to underestimate the opposition.  And derogatory vocabulary makes it easier to make that error. 

As to hoping for a man on white horse to arise in the aftermath..... be careful what you wish for.

My wish is the opposite.  My wish is that the US and the world discovers that the "system" works regardless of the man on the horse.  My greater wish is that the US and the world discover that the world goes on regardless of the "system".

I don't want the world's ills cured.  I want a good government that maintains peace and order so that me and mine can live freely with minimal government intervention.  Rex Murphy had an article about "social licence" in the National Post this weekend.  Another good article from him.  But I think that he rather missed the point.  Social licence is the responsibility of the government.  It is the reason why we hire governments.  They are there to minimize the frictions in a society so as to preserve peace and order.  Their job is to make decisions and absorb the impact of those decisions so as to preserve peace and order.  Their job is to apply the social licence that we grant them so as to preserve peace and order.

Granting licence to any subsidiary group or individual is not good governance and does not foster peace and order.  Not any more than anarchy would result in anything other than Hobbes's war of all against all.

Governments can't be friends.  The best that they can hope for is that they will be respected by most for a useful period of time.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #820 on: May 23, 2017, 16:34:59 »
He still isn't calling out those elements of the house of Saud that are as involved with terrorist groups as Iran is.  Once again, SA gets a pass.

Something like that isn't going to be brought up in public, which would have been a major embarrassment. And we don't know what was discussed in private (at least not yet!), so its possible that this problem was brought up behind closed doors.
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #821 on: May 23, 2017, 16:50:21 »
Something like that isn't going to be brought up in public, which would have been a major embarrassment. And we don't know what was discussed in private (at least not yet!), so its possible that this problem was brought up behind closed doors.

It bloody well should.  No POTUS has brought that up, ever.  They deserve to be embarrassed, outed and shamed.  Why should one hegemony be the whipping boy when others are up to similar crap?  You're right, we'll never know what was brought up in private, however I would be willing to stake my next paycheque that what should have been said, wasn't.
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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #822 on: May 23, 2017, 16:58:16 »
Remius:

I'm not picking on you as you are far from the only individual anywhere that indulges themselves in this type of rhetoric.  You are in very good company.

I would just remind you, and those others, that it seldom does anybody any good to underestimate the opposition.  And derogatory vocabulary makes it easier to make that error. 

As to hoping for a man on white horse to arise in the aftermath..... be careful what you wish for.

My wish is the opposite.  My wish is that the US and the world discovers that the "system" works regardless of the man on the horse.  My greater wish is that the US and the world discover that the world goes on regardless of the "system".

I don't want the world's ills cured.  I want a good government that maintains peace and order so that me and mine can live freely with minimal government intervention.  Rex Murphy had an article about "social licence" in the National Post this weekend.  Another good article from him.  But I think that he rather missed the point.  Social licence is the responsibility of the government.  It is the reason why we hire governments.  They are there to minimize the frictions in a society so as to preserve peace and order.  Their job is to make decisions and absorb the impact of those decisions so as to preserve peace and order.  Their job is to apply the social licence that we grant them so as to preserve peace and order.

Granting licence to any subsidiary group or individual is not good governance and does not foster peace and order.  Not any more than anarchy would result in anything other than Hobbes's war of all against all.

Governments can't be friends.  The best that they can hope for is that they will be respected by most for a useful period of time.

That's an idea I can get behind.

I also read Murphy's article and thought he was bang on. (For those who missed it, it's here: http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/rex-murphy-notley-learns-a-hard-truth-about-social-licence-its-not-meant-to-be-granted-ever-thats-the-point)

Murphy's point is that there's no use in trying to obtain society's licence because as he said:

Quote
Notley missed the central point of social licence: its preconditions can never be met, and are not meant to be. It is an obstructionist tactic, designed to forestall and delay, till whatever its target has been become so worn down by process and protest and delay that it is simply taken off the policy table.

In other words it gets back to what I've said before--a leader isn't someone who takes the people where they want to go but someone who takes them to the right place to be even if they don't want to go there. We shouldn't be catering to every little naysayer just to still their voices. If the course is the right one then go and let the naysayers be damned. I think that's where we agree.

Where we diverge is the part where you state:

Quote
My wish is that the US and the world discovers that the "system" works regardless of the man on the horse.

I wish that as well but respectfully, history is replete with examples where the man on the horse has taken his system and his people (and often many other people) on the road to disaster and thereby has denied them the very peace and order that we all desire.

Like you, I think that a government that provides that peace and order with the least interference of it's citizens' liberties is the one we should strive for. However, I'm also a firm believer in the fact that there need to be limits. As a simple example, while I think every individual should be free to worship in their own way their religious practices should not give a licence to hurt or discriminate against any other individual.

The US, like us is a system where there are three branches of government which work in a equilibrium of checks and balances. When one branch goes off kilter, those checks and balances are diminished and the possibility that civil liberties will be curtailed or eliminated increases.

 :cheers:
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #823 on: May 23, 2017, 17:25:20 »
FJAG - as you correctly identify, our difference is with the need for and the role of a leader. 

As I have said before, I am quite content with a manager.  I do not require a leader.  Especially a leader that wishes to lead me to a place I do not wish to go.  All to often the leader, the shepherd, resorts to his dogs and I find myself being driven against my will.  At that point my only recourse is to my conscience.

As to the quality of the manager, and the decisions they make - well that is why we limit the damage they can cause by limiting them to a few years. 

As to whether you agree with the decisions - that is why we have elections.  And why, in our country, parliament is not bound by any previous parliament's decisions.  That which is done can be undone.  Trudeau and Trump have both adequately demonstrated that.   Perhaps both Harper and Obama would have been better served finding common ground with the opposition - but that relies on having an opposition that is interested in working for the country and not just in playing silly bugger games.

To be blunt... I have come to be cynical of all proselytizers and time servers regardless of whether they are politicians, bureaucrats or non-governmental activists (of old we might have called them Methodists and other God-botherers).

In my opinion the best indication of the success of Trump and Brexit is the number of pissed off people - I enjoy the company.
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Offline FJAG

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Re: U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)
« Reply #824 on: May 23, 2017, 17:37:06 »
Still my favorite acting performance: Heath Ledger as the Joker in The Dark Knight and strangely appropriate to this presidency.

Quote
The Joker: Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!
  ;D

:cheers:


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