Author Topic: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque  (Read 10854 times)

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2017, 08:16:05 »
Not a huge dig, but there's more than enough on BOTH topics to keep threads healthily fed without force-feeding one or the other - thanks!

No worries at all.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2017, 08:55:14 »
He will not mount a successful insanity defense.

Not necessarily successful, but under the circumstances, what other defence could his lawyer(s) attempt?

Meanwhile, "Fox News apologizes for erroneous Quebec terror tweet".  Let's see if that slows down the "False Flag Machine" on social media -- <sarcasm>yeah, I'm suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure it'll close the door on that angle </sarcasm>.

 :)   :goodpost:



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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2017, 09:52:14 »
Quote
Trudeau’s PMO takes on Fox News over a ‘false and misleading’ tweet about the Quebec mosque shooting

Trudeau, 'false and misleading’ ?  Funny headline.
Never Congratulate Yourself In Victory, Nor Blame Your Horses In Defeat - Old Cossack Expression

Offline mariomike

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2017, 10:16:30 »
Trudeau, 'false and misleading’ ?  Funny headline.

What did the Prime Minister say or do that was 'false and misleading’ regarding: "29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque"?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 10:24:41 by mariomike »
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2017, 10:30:14 »
Nothing.

IMHO
Quote
Trudeau, 'false and misleading’ ?  Funny headline.
based on his election campaign and results of his government to date, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
Never Congratulate Yourself In Victory, Nor Blame Your Horses In Defeat - Old Cossack Expression

Offline mariomike

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2017, 10:40:04 »
Nothing.

IMHO  based on his election campaign and results of his government to date, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

I'm not defending his politics, one way or the other. I'd be more likely to vote for "American Idol" or "The Voice" than our federal elections.  :)

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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2017, 10:52:05 »
I believe you have previously posted (and took down) that you don't vote in Provincial or Federal elections. You of course don't vote in US elections at any level so I don't comprehend your Trumpitis.
Never Congratulate Yourself In Victory, Nor Blame Your Horses In Defeat - Old Cossack Expression

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2017, 11:49:58 »
Trudeau, 'false and misleading’ ?  Funny headline.
Uh, I think that's referring to one of the early FOX News initial Twitter posts/headines being false/misleading (which, to be fair to FOX, has been corrected, and was the same as a LOT of MSM outlets were going with until replacing it with more current info).
I believe you have previously posted (and took down) that you don't vote in Provincial or Federal elections. You of course don't vote in US elections at any level so I don't comprehend your Trumpitis.
It's called "having a different opinion" - whether someone votes or not.

Meanwhile, a bit more on the "terrorism" labeling thing ...
Quote
Within 24 hours of Sunday’s shooting in a Quebec City mosque, 27-year-old Alexandre Bissonnette stood in a prisoner’s box as the 11 charges against him were read aloud.

By then, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had already condemned the killing of six worshippers as a terrorism attack. Other political leaders, federal and provincial, also called it an act of terror.

And yet, Bissonnette was charged with six counts of first-degree murder and five counts of attempted murder — but not with any terrorism offences.

Why not? According to experts, there could be several reasons.

The Criminal Code of Canada defines violent acts as terrorism if they’re done, entirely or in part, for political, religious or ideological purposes and with the intention of intimidating the public or a specific segment of the public.

“It poses two extra burdens on the Crown in terms of proving what was in the mind of the accused at the time of the offence,” Alana Klein, a McGill University criminal law professor, noted on Tuesday.

“It’s much easier to demonstrate that an accused had the intent to kill, which is required for a murder charge, than it is to show the motivation behind his or her actions.”

(...)

“If he wasn’t charged with terrorism it’s because they don’t have the evidence to justify it at this point,” said Louis Morissette, a forensic psychologist, criminology expert and Université de Montréal professor.

“It doesn’t mean it won’t come,” he added. “Investigators will look into his computer or documents at home. They’ll look at his social media accounts or any notes he’s written. Even the books he had in his room.”

Bissonnette also appears to have acted alone, which can disqualify him from most terrorism offences, said Kent Roach, a University of Toronto law professor and expert in anti-terrorism law.

Terrorism charges are mainly designed to be preventive and apply to groups, Roach said.

“A truly lone wolf attack cannot result in most terrorism offences which require participation or support of a group or commission of an offence for a group,” he wrote in an email response on Tuesday ...
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Offline mariomike

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2017, 14:32:23 »
I believe you have previously posted (and took down) that you don't vote in Provincial or Federal elections.

Rifleman62. Sorry for not replying to you sooner, we had to go shopping.

It's not that I refuse to vote, I just don't follow party politics much. But, I love living in Canada - more so now than ever.  :)
Municipal politics still gets the focus of my attention.

In my 8+ years here,- whichever party gets in - I have never disrespected the Prime Minister of Canada, or Premier of Ontario.

You of course don't vote in US elections at any level so I don't comprehend your Trumpitis.

They put him in Radio Chatter. So, I go by this ROE,

I know I've been gently poked for not having a sense of humour when it comes to some of the digs going on.  To pass along some sage advice, "we have to remember to check if we are in RADIO CHATTER before we want to "seriously" comment on a less than "serious" thread" ;)

No politicians get a Safe Space in Radio Chatter!  :)



« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 16:09:12 by mariomike »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2017, 14:37:48 »
No. You are just grasping at straw. There is a big difference between a school and a university.

The professor is a Laval University Agriculture department professor. The alleged perpetrator was in the Social Sciences department. There are about 60,000 students at Laval University, with a campus about two and a half square kilometres filled with about 30 different pavilions. There is about 800 meters between the Social Sciences pavilion and the Agriculture one, and in Quebec's francophone universities, there are no such things as requirement for a certain number of "electives" out of department. The chances that he knew that prof., while not nil, are pretty remote.

Point taken, I only noted it from the media coverage as possibility. One thing to keep in mind is that while these people were innocent and undeserving of this attack, Islam in itself is not innocent and is also been a motivator for similar attacks on non-muslims. My sympathy will be for the people and families hurt, ruined and destroyed by these actions.

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2017, 07:00:52 »
A bit of an update ...
Quote
The Quebec City mosque that was the target of a mass shooting last January will boost security after a flux of “hateful messages.” And while they report receiving one or two pieces of hate mail per week, one of the most aggressive ones arrived last week.

The Islamic Cultural Centre of Quebec received a package on Friday containing a defaced Quran and a note suggesting the community use a hog farm as a cemetery.

The package arrived two days before a controversial referendum in a nearby town rejected a plan to build a long-sought Muslim cemetery.

The note reads: “You’re looking for a cemetery to bury your dirty carcasses? Then here is an ideal place for you. It will smell like pork anyway.” Last year, a pig’s head with a note that read “bon appétit” was found outside the mosque.

A group that campaigned aggressively against that cemetery say they had nothing to do with the defaced Quran.

While Friday’s package might be the most aggressive message the mosque has received in recent months, the centre’s president Mohamed Labidi says the hate mail has become increasingly common — he told VICE News that the mosque receives one or two hate messages per week.

“We have received a lot of messages like ‘go to your home, you’re not safe here,’” he added. “There is some fear. We try to calm our community to pass through these difficulties … and to fight together to eradicate racism and xenophobia.” ...
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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2017, 18:30:13 »
The latest ...
Quote
Alexandre Bissonnette, accused of killing six Muslim men at a Quebec City mosque in January, is back in court under tight security.

Additional evidence was given to defence lawyers at the Quebec City courthouse, including information from computers, said one of the Crown prosecutors, Thomas Jacques. But the disclosure of the evidence is not completed.

A “marginal” element was still coming from the forensics laboratory in Montreal, Jacques said.

Bissonnette, dressed in a grey sweater, appeared before the court with disheveled hair. He looked haggard as he followed the procedures, and raised his cuffed hands a few times to scratch his head.

On Friday, Judge Alain Morand will also hear the media request for certain documents to be made public. Among other things, news organizations want to obtain sworn statements from the police and search warrants.

(...)

The accused will be back in court Oct 6.
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No preliminary inquiry, straight to trial
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2017, 13:56:59 »
The latest:  straight to judge + jury trial with no preliminary inqury - back in court 6 Dec to (maybe) set a trial date.

Also, no terrorism charges reportedly being laid (links to article in French):  at this point, 6 x counts first-degree murder,  and 5 x attempted murder using a restricted firearm and 1 x attempted murder.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: No preliminary inquiry, straight to trial
« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2017, 10:16:04 »
The latest:  straight to judge + jury trial with no preliminary inqury - back in court 6 Dec to (maybe) set a trial date.

Also, no terrorism charges reportedly being laid (links to article in French):  at this point, 6 x counts first-degree murder,  and 5 x attempted murder using a restricted firearm and 1 x attempted murder.

it's sad to see that no terrorism charges were laid, as this is a clear terrorist attack. The less cynical side of me wants to believe that if the case was reversed, ie- a muslim man shot and killed 6 Christians in a church, that the outcome would be the same. I, however, live in a more cynical world where I don't believe that is the case. Same as the Las Vegas shooter coverage has suddenly become less a "terrorist" attack and more of a "mass shooting". Trumps refusal to use "terrorist" is another indicator.

Offline Loachman

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2017, 14:14:45 »
I agree that terrorism charges would have been appropriate for the mosque shooter.

Until such time as a motivation has been determined for the Las Vegas a-hole's crime, terming it as "terrorism" would be completely inappropriate and quite likely wrong.

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #90 on: October 04, 2017, 14:56:25 »
it's sad to see that no terrorism charges were laid, as this is a clear terrorist attack ...
I agree that terrorism charges would have been appropriate for the mosque shooter ...
I'm with you both on this, but it isn't as simple or easy as it seems ...
Quote
Quebec City and Edmonton attacks: Why it's difficult to lay terrorism charges in Canada
Sean Fine, Globe & Mail, 4 Oct 2017

The attacks had all the hallmarks of terrorism. In Quebec City, a man is accused of fatally shooting six worshippers at a mosque, and attempting to kill others. In Edmonton, a man is accused of driving a van into pedestrians and stabbing a police officer. Yet neither has been charged with committing an act of terrorism.

The answer may lie in a prosecutorial view that a terrorism charge is superfluous when the available penalties are already severe for murder and attempted murder. Here's a look at terrorism law in light of the two incidents.

What is the distinguishing feature of terrorism?

The motivation. It's not just any act of violence (or other act, such as a disruption of an essential service like electrical power), but violence committed for a political, religious or ideological purpose; and violence aimed at intimidating the public (or a portion of the public), or the government.

How does terrorism differ from a hate crime?

Hate is treated as an aggravating factor in a crime, which means that it may lead a judge to give a longer sentence than if hate had not been present. It is not, generally, a crime in itself. By contrast, terrorism offences usually exist alongside Criminal Code offences such as murder or attempted murder. Prosecutors first need to prove those offences before moving on to show the terrorist motives. There are also terrorism offences aimed at filling in the gaps in law, largely after 9/11, such as stopping the raising of funds for terrorist groups, or collecting weapons or materiel, or otherwise facilitating, promoting or assisting terrorists.

So why didn't prosecutors in Quebec lay terrorism charges in last January's attack on the mosque worshippers? Wasn't that aimed at intimidation, and done for some form of political or ideological objective?

The answer may be that the penalties for mass murder are already the most severe in the Criminal Code; terrorism charges would add a layer of complexity, but not necessarily a greater punishment. Terrorism cases are handled by federal prosecutors. This week, Quebec's prosecution service declined to explain why no terrorism charges were laid. The intent to intimidate looks clear enough to University of Toronto law professor Kent Roach, an author in the area of national-security law. The political objective, he says, would depend on the evidence. Inferring one from the act may not be enough to prove a terrorist motive existed ...
On the other hand, if charges are easier to prove and the sentencing is more severe under non-terrorism charges, I'd be comfortable with doing more time without fitting the pigeonhole of "terrorism".  Those that believe it is will call it that regardless of legal definitions, and people who don't think so never will.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #91 on: October 04, 2017, 18:27:21 »
Similar problems with "hate" crimes.  The discernment of what is in the culprit's head remains as inexact a science as when entrails were being examined for clues.

It is hard enough to distinguish between manslaughter and murder.
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: 29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque
« Reply #92 on: October 04, 2017, 19:31:05 »
I agree that terrorism charges would have been appropriate for the mosque shooter.

Until such time as a motivation has been determined for the Las Vegas a-hole's crime, terming it as "terrorism" would be completely inappropriate and quite likely wrong.

I agree that the shooter in Las Vegas cannot be called a "terrorist" until it is known if he did his act for political purposes, so backtrack on that point. However, in terms of "quite likely wrong" I'm not so sure. This was pre-meditated and well planned out. Even the waiting for the last act of the last day, from the outside, could indicate that the shooter had some hesitation about what he was going to do. It will be interesting to see what the motive was. But that's for another thread  :salute: