Author Topic: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?  (Read 1989 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 404,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,386
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« on: December 20, 2016, 06:28:47 »
Meanwhile, that other Canadian & his young family remains hostage ...
Quote
The two sons born in captivity to hostages Joshua Boyle and Caitlan Coleman were shown for the first time in a video posted Monday as the couple pleaded for their family’s release, asking U.S. President Barack Obama to think about his “legacy” and free them from their “Kafkaesque nightmare.”

Boyle, 33, who is Canadian, and Coleman, his 31-year-old American wife, have been held by the Taliban-linked Haqqani network since October 2012. They were kidnapped near Kabul, Afghanistan, during a backpacking trip through Central Asia.

Coleman says the video was made Dec. 3, and is surprisingly blunt in her criticism of both her kidnappers and the governments that have failed to free her family.

“We understand both sides hate us,” she says, appearing to read from a prepared script. “And are content to leave us and our two surviving children in these problems.

“But we can only ask and pray that somebody will recognize the atrocities these men carry out against us as so-called retaliation, in their ingratitude and hypocrisy. My children have seen their mother defiled.”

(...)

In past videos, the couple have appealed to the Afghan, American and Canadian governments, since Boyle is a Canadian citizen. But this time they address only the U.S. and Afghanistan, begging the two to “reach an agreement.”

“Obama, your legacy on leaving office is probably important to you, and our lives and those of our children are to us,” Coleman says. “So please don’t become the next Jimmy Carter. Just give the offenders something so they and you can save face and we can leave the region permanently.”

Coleman is likely referring to the failed attempt by Carter in 1980 to release Americans held hostage in Iran.

To U.S. president-elect Donald Trump, she says: “They want money, power, friends. You must give them these things before progress can be made. A five-year hostage-taking is too long and indicates failure on every side.”

Boyle also speaks to the camera saying that his captors “will not settle this until they get what they’re demanding.”

Canadian Global Affairs spokesman Michael O’Shaughnessy said his government was aware of the latest video, The Canadian Press reported late Monday.

“We are deeply concerned for the safety and well-being of Joshua Boyle, Caitlan Coleman and their young children and call for their unconditional release,” O’Shaughnessy added.

The U.S. State Department said it was reviewing the footage.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 07:19:16 by milnews.ca »
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 70,520
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,570
I guess they got more adventure than they bargained for on their South-East Asian backpacking trip.... While I sympathize with them, I cannot conceive how someone could think it is a good idea to backpack in that area of the world.  And conceive children while in captivity (although they may not have had a choice..)

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 404,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,386
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Since the wife is an American, here's the latest from south of us ...
Quote
Defense officials are weighing whether to use military options to rescue a Canadian-American couple and their two children seen in a Taliban propaganda video, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee said Wednesday.

U.S. Central Command could do so if the hostages are located and are able to be freed safely, Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., said on MSNBC.

He said another option could include a prisoner swap with captors the Haqqani network, a close affiliate of the Afghan Taliban, with the help of a country in the Persian Gulf.

 "The ability to negotiate, the ability to assure they will go ahead and deliver on their part of the bargain, if there is a bargain, is a practical constraint," Reed said of any deal.

"But we all should be concerned," he said of the family's fate. "It's despicable what they've suffered." ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 404,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,386
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Some of the latest ...
Quote
The slender American woman in the black abaya looks directly at the camera, her two children, their faces caked with dirt, sitting just to her left.

“Today is December 3, 2016. We have waited since 2012 for someone to understand our problems, the Kafkaesque nightmare in which we find ourselves,” she says in the video released by her captors in Afghanistan late last year. “My children have seen their mother defiled. We ask, in our collective 14th year of prison, that the governments on both sides reach some agreement to allow us freedom.”

Then, aiming her words squarely at President Obama, she adds one more message.

“Your legacy on leaving us is probably important to you as our lives and those of our children are to us,” she says, reading from the prepared text in her hands. “So please don’t become the next Jimmy Carter. Just give the offenders something so they and you can save face and we can leave the region permanently.”

The woman is a Pennsylvania resident named Caitlan Coleman, and she, her husband, and their two young sons have been held by the Taliban for more than four years. The family are the longest-held of the handful of Americans known to still be in militant hands there.

(...)

We know Coleman’s name, and we know the name of her husband, Canadian Joshua Boyle. But we don’t the names of her sons, both of whom were born in Taliban captivity. The children have likely never met other Americans or read any English-language books. In the video, the older boy, believed to be about 4, is holding on to his brother, thought to be around 2. At one point the older child laughs and smiles at someone off camera, who promptly shushes him ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 404,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,386
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 07:39:08 »
One opinion from a former CSIS Director of Ops, shared under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-42) ...
Quote
In July, 2012, a naive and reckless young couple decided to undertake the adventure of a lifetime and travel for five months to the former South Asian republics of the Soviet Union. Unbeknownst to their parents living in small towns in Pennsylvania and Ontario, Canadian Joshua Boyle and his U.S.-born wife, Caitlan Coleman – who was two months pregnant – decided to trek into Afghanistan in early October.

Mr. Boyle and Ms. Coleman disappeared days later and continue to be held captive by the notorious Taliban-aligned Haqqani network. Since their abduction, Ms. Coleman has given birth, and two boys have survived. They are no longer a couple in danger, but a family. A family of innocents thousands of kilometres from their homes and families.

Paying a ransom is said to be a bad thing: It might beget more kidnappings. It is a widely accepted theory, but there is little if any statistical evidence to support the assertion.

According to New America, a think tank based in Washington, hostages from countries known to pay ransoms or make concessions are far more likely to be freed, even when they are being held by the terrorist groups that are most likely to murder their hostages. Based on the New America data and victim and family-support service Hostage US, there is no clear link between a country’s ransom policy and the number of its citizens taken hostage. While a range of factors, including foreign and military policy need to be considered, 80 per cent of hostages from Western European Union countries that pay ransoms or make concessions held by jihadi terrorist groups were freed, compared with 25 per cent of hostages from the United States and 33 per cent from Britain – two countries that don’t.

If it were the family of a federal minister or bureaucrat, however, a ransom would be paid. Any parent would make the same decision. While there has been no demand for ransom in this case, the Boyles and other families like them need to avail themselves of all the options to protect their loved ones. They must be free from the fear of prosecution hanging over their heads if they participate in the payment of a ransom or other actions that might arguably advance the interests of a terrorist organization.

While Mr. Boyle and Ms. Coleman are being held by an extremist organization, the governments in Afghanistan and Pakistan can weigh in with differing degrees of influence to facilitate the family’s safe return. How much time and effort have our Prime Minister and federal ministers invested in persuading their counterparts in Kabul and Islamabad to do more? (Obviously we are not privy to their closed-door conversations.) A government’s first and foremost responsibility is the protection of its citizens.

While Mr. Boyle had briefly married into a Canadian family whose patriarch, Ahmed Khadr, had been linked to extremists, he and his new wife are harmless hippies. Early in the kidnapping, U.S. officials reported that their abduction had nothing to do with Mr. Boyle’s former spouse and was rather a horrible coincidence. Canada agreed. Mr. Boyle and Ms. Coleman are by no means the first, or likely the last, Westerners to wander foolishly close to war zones only to find themselves captured.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said the low point of his tenure was the day he learned of the shocking murder of Canadians in the Philippines. One would imagine that the day was so much worse for the families of those so grotesquely murdered. It is time for a clear, decisive, results-driven approach to resolving the Boyle family’s kidnapping. This should be a top priority for all departments – and for the Prime Minister. This is what all Canadians deserve.

The Canadian position on the prohibition of paying ransoms may appear laudable in some circumstances, but it ties the bureaucracy in knots. Does it make sense to have a single policy rigidly applied in the same manner to criminal kidnappings for cash in Mexico and to political jihadi kidnappings in Asia and Africa? Where is the line between responsible and unacceptable behaviour for bureaucrats in these circumstances? Government officials must have the fortitude to do more than just what they are required to do. They must have the policy foundation and moral support to do everything they can.

While Mr. Boyle and Ms. Coleman were foolhardy and impulsive, they did not deserve this fate. Canadians owe it to them and their families to do everything in our power to bring them home safely. Rich or poor, famous or infamous, diplomat, journalist or store clerk, Canadians should demand and receive the best protection their government can offer.

Managing a kidnapping on the other side of the globe is a complex undertaking. Tackling one that involves the citizens of two countries and the lives of children is excruciating. The behind-the-scenes manoeuvring in a kidnapping case, with its pantheon of interested parties and the unpredictable foreign policies of the United States, Canada, Afghanistan and Pakistan – as well as myriad supposed intermediaries – makes every decision facing the families and their governments that much more difficult.

Behind this backdrop lies a devastated Canadian family. Patrick and Linda Boyle, along with Joshua’s four siblings, have suffered in relative silence. Their son and daughter-in-law’s lives have hung in the balance for more than four years, and they’ve met their grandchildren over grainy and threatening video clips. Rumours, both good and terrible, circulate almost daily. Last August, the captors released a video threatening to murder the young family if their demands were not immediately met. The Boyles and Colemans persevered through this terrible moment, but just barely.

While the case is undoubtedly complex and challenging, the Canadian government can and should do more. Relatives of previous Canadian hostages have demanded changes to the archaic system. It is hoped that a rumoured parliamentary-committee review of these issues comes to fruition soon.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline recceguy

    A Usual Suspect.

  • At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats. -P.J. O’Rouke-
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 240,572
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 17,502
  • doddering docent to the museum of misanthropy
    • Army.ca
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 02:24:31 »
I bet Trudeau could make a few calls and make it happen.  ::)
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind.”

John G. Diefenbaker

Offline MilEME09

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 33,050
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,415
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 07:36:54 »
Three ways I see this ending either A. We pay a Ransom, B. a Prisoner swap, or C. Either us or the americans focus some intelligence assets to finding them then go kicking down doors with SOF. My money is on B
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline GAP

  • Semper Fi
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 204,920
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,876
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 10:15:44 »
D.  Leave them there.....
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline QV

  • Member
  • ****
  • 4,990
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 234
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 11:28:45 »
When people do things like go on a hiking trip to a dangerous country war zone against all advisories, where is the line between expend all efforts to help or write them off?  Is there a line?  My guess is the government will always try to help but in this case is severely limited in what it is actually capable of doing. 




Offline Rifleman62

    Retired.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 71,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,416
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 18:49:39 »
The additional difficulty for a SF rescue attempt is four small children and all that entails let alone two very stupid parents. He should have tied a knot in it after they were captured (if they are his children).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 19:22:30 by Rifleman62 »
Never Congratulate Yourself In Victory, Nor Blame Your Horses In Defeat - Old Cossack Expression

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 472,195
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,898
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 22:52:59 »
The additional difficulty for a SF rescue attempt is four small children and all that entails let alone two very stupid parents. He should have tied a knot in it after they were captured (if they are his children).
As far as I know, there are two children involved; she went in pregnant, gave birth, and has had one more since.  (More than happy to be corrected; I'm not really tracking the details)

The husband's previous wife is Zaynab Khadr.  Name familiar?  First child of Ahmed Khadr (aka Abu Abdurahman al-Kanadi); she's the sister of Abdurahman and Omar.

In this case, there may.....be a tiny bit of guilt by association.  Forgive me if I don't help fundraise a rescue mission.

Offline jollyjacktar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 131,042
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,451
  • My uncle F/Sgt W.H.S. Buckwell KIA 14/05/43 22YOA
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 08:13:21 »
His former associations (Khadr connection) and Darwin Award actions here, pretty much evaporate any sympathy or GAF I might hold for them.  Maybe he should appeal to the ex-outlaws for a good word with fellow barbarians.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 472,195
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,898
Re: Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 08:20:48 »
Maybe he should appeal to the ex-outlaws for a good word with fellow barbarians.
Given that his former father-in-law got shot up in the barbarian-controlled part of Pakistan, perhaps the family's word isn't worth a whole lot.

But maybe the family remnants should pack up and go downrange to negotiate anyway; it may help.
 ;)