Author Topic: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)  (Read 6104 times)

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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2017, 19:30:19 »
So I was reading that taxing the sale of Cannabis may not be the cash cow originally thought and it is the intent to try and keep the price low. Compared to cigarettes and the price of alcohol, is the intent to try and drive out the black market so it doesn't go the way of illegal smokes which is a real problem?

Link please, would love to "Read" this study as well.

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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2017, 19:32:19 »
With that logic, might as well make heroin legal so we can stop drug cartels from controlling it. If that's the reasoning the government is using, they're more clueless than I thought.

After we, as a Nation, decide to legalize pot, making it cheaper than the black market stuff is the way to drive the black market out.

AFAIK, there is no plan to legalize heroin so your point is moot.

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2017, 19:33:12 »
Let's move on with the subject of the thread. I'm sure everyone knows the rules and would like to get back to the subject.
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2017, 19:36:09 »
With that logic, might as well make heroin legal so we can stop drug cartels from controlling it. If that's the reasoning the government is using, they're more clueless than I thought.

That did cross my mind. In fact I can for see illegal trafficking of cannabis much the same as regular tobacco if the price skyrockets. Probably from the same source as well. From what I have read it has the potential to provide the government lots of return however that assumes they drive out the black market and the government needs to provide a balance. Large scale growers no doubt want to maximize profit so keeping the price down may be difficult.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 19:43:28 by Chief Stoker »
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2017, 19:54:38 »
After we, as a Nation, decide to legalize pot, making it cheaper than the black market stuff is the way to drive the black market out.

AFAIK, there is no plan to legalize heroin so your point is moot.
Why aren't we trying to make alcohol and tobacco cheaper than the black market then? Why legalize one recreational drug and not another? You control the content of the drug and maybe we stop all the overdoses. Heck, they're already talking about handing out free heroin in certain cases in Vancouver.

Also, did you vote to legalize pot? I'm willing to bet a bunch of the people that voted Liberal in the last election didn't even want it legalized, or didn't think it would happen. Canadians are split on the issue, and it's fairly evident even in this small slice of Canada that there's no concensus.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 19:57:16 by PuckChaser »

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2017, 20:44:22 »
Because tobacco and alchool are two well established white market that is well accepted as the norm.  While there are black markets they are generally marginalized.

Pot, right now, is 100% black market.  You want the upcoming white market to overcome the black market and marginalize it. By taxing the hell out of the white market and making it less affordable than the black market, you won't convince any users to go to their regulat pusher.  Doing this, you're making sure the law fails.

Offline MARS

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2017, 20:44:36 »
Link please, would love to "Read" this study as well.

Dileas

Tess

FFS, google "cannabis taxation studies".  Google broken in Toronto?!?

Lest you try and flame me....here some things for you to "read":

https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/TaxFoundation_SR231.pdf

I know you are partial to pro-cannabis pubs, so here is one you should have seen already:

http://www.thecannabist.co/2015/02/10/colorado-pot-tax-44-million-recreational-taxes-2014/29510/

The taxation data is buried in this report, but you said you want to "read" it, so I will let you find it:

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa799.pdf

Broken down by county, no less:

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data

Or, just skip reading actual data and check out some opinion pieces:

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/a-year-in-taxes-on-legal-weed-yet-to-yield-big-windfall-for-state/

When your google machine starts working again, you can find dozens of other data and opinions, even some that will suit your implicit bias, I am sure

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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2017, 21:12:24 »
FFS, google "cannabis taxation studies".  Google broken in Toronto?!?

Lest you try and flame me....here some things for you to "read":

https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/TaxFoundation_SR231.pdf

I know you are partial to pro-cannabis pubs, so here is one you should have seen already:

http://www.thecannabist.co/2015/02/10/colorado-pot-tax-44-million-recreational-taxes-2014/29510/

The taxation data is buried in this report, but you said you want to "read" it, so I will let you find it:

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa799.pdf

Broken down by county, no less:

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data

Or, just skip reading actual data and check out some opinion pieces:

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/a-year-in-taxes-on-legal-weed-yet-to-yield-big-windfall-for-state/

When your google machine starts working again, you can find dozens of other data and opinions, even some that will suit your implicit bias, I am sure


As cute as it was that you FFSed me, and told me to use google, you will notice your links refer to american statistics.  Being this is a thread about Canada, For F**k Sakes I was asking for Canadian links.  If you go and use your Google fu for that, Son, I would love to see them.  Especially the one your fellow naval chum, Chief Stoker talks about.

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Offline MCG

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2017, 21:17:16 »
Let's quit the dick measuring on both sides of this discussion please.  If you cannot keep yourself civil, then keep yourself out of the discussion.

Cheers,
The staff.

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2017, 21:25:14 »
Let's quit the dick measuring on both sides of this discussion please.  If you cannot keep yourself civil, then keep yourself out of the discussion.

Cheers,
The staff.

Thank you.

Dileas

Tess
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2017, 22:19:05 »
So we should totally ignore the fact that scientific research has found that the human brain is still in a state of development into the early 20's, just because we have decided that a person legally becomes an "adult" at an earlier age?

So - I'm not really sure what your argument is here.  We have drawn arbitrary lines all over the place.  The legal age for alcohol is arbitrary.  After all, it's carcinogenic, and there is no safe level of it.  It causes many deaths.  The same is true of tobacco.  I would argue (as you seemed to argue otherwise in an earlier post) it matters very much the precedent created with those drugs.  I would also argue that marijuana is far more socially accepted than you understand. 

Offline GAP

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2017, 23:09:05 »

Landlord group wants stricter limits on where Canadians can grow marijuana
Cannabis Act would let people grow up to 4 plants at home
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-legal-marijuana-growing-landlords-1.4071323
By Andrew Foote, CBC News Posted: Apr 15, 2017
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Offline MCG

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2017, 23:13:34 »
That seems like something that can/should be laid out in the lease.  It does not need to be spelled out in law

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2017, 23:20:47 »
Landlord group wants stricter limits on where Canadians can grow marijuana
Cannabis Act would let people grow up to 4 plants at home
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-legal-marijuana-growing-landlords-1.4071323
By Andrew Foote, CBC News Posted: Apr 15, 2017

And to what extent do house plants and Urban gardens get roped into this crazy concept.  Please, another attempt at prohibitionists trying to stall the rights of Canadians

dileas

tess
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2017, 07:26:13 »
Landlord group wants stricter limits on where Canadians can grow marijuana
Cannabis Act would let people grow up to 4 plants at home
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-legal-marijuana-growing-landlords-1.4071323
By Andrew Foote, CBC News Posted: Apr 15, 2017

Lots of landlords have had their investments ruined due to illegal production of cannabis, there's definitely concerns and it should be the landlord's choice if they want that sort of activity going on. Much the same as having pets or not or smoking. This is not like having a cactus in your house. House plants don't cause a stink, or have heat lamps or need to be processed. Four plants can also turn into more than four plants due to the additive nature of the drug as it is a narcotic.

The legalization should not trounce the rights of Canadians who do want to be exposed to it.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 07:45:31 by Chief Stoker »
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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2017, 08:00:19 »
And TRYING to get back on theme....

Does legalization mean it would come off of medical status in the coverage sense?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 08:08:16 by Bruce Monkhouse »
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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2017, 08:18:44 »
And TRYING to get back on theme....

Does legalization mean it would come off of medical status in the coverage sense?

For serving members, wouldn't it just change from a prescription-only drug to an over-the-counter drug? Both types are provided by the system free of charge, if prescribed.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2017, 08:21:42 »
For serving members, wouldn't it just change from a prescription-only drug to an over-the-counter drug? Both types are provided by the system free of charge, if prescribed.

Good point, but I suspect we will have regulations coming soon on all of that. I foresee not being allowed to use while in regardless of the circumstances.
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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2017, 08:24:15 »
For serving members, wouldn't it just change from a prescription-only drug to an over-the-counter drug? Both types are provided by the system free of charge, if prescribed.

I forget 'you guys' get everything... ;D

I meant that some folks say 'it'll be like alcohol or tobacco', however I'm pretty sure neither of those can be prescribed.  [I did say 'pretty sure', not 100%]
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2017, 09:40:13 »
And to what extent do house plants and Urban gardens get roped into this crazy concept.  Please, another attempt at prohibitionists trying to stall the rights of Canadians

dileas

tess

I can see a point on a Landlord having some say into what their tenants do inside their rental property.  Urban gardens, on the other hand, are not inside, so why would a Landlord have any say on plants outside?  (Although, I could not see anyone planting outdoors for fear of losing their plants.) 
Considering the size that one plant can grow to, it is not unreasonable for Landlords to have a major concern with the legal limit of four plants.
As MCG points out, it is something that has to be documented in the Lease.  Unfortunately, even with these restrictions in a Lease, in most places across Canada the tenants have more Rights than the Landlords, so it will be quite a court battle for the Landlord to evict a non-compliant tenant.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2017, 09:45:46 »
Plants will be limited to 1m height.  How many households have more than 4, 1 meter high non-canabis plants?

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2017, 09:53:43 »
I can see a point on a Landlord having some say into what their tenants do inside their rental property.  Urban gardens, on the other hand, are not inside, so why would a Landlord have any say on plants outside?  (Although, I could not see anyone planting outdoors for fear of losing their plants.) 
Considering the size that one plant can grow to, it is not unreasonable for Landlords to have a major concern with the legal limit of four plants.
As MCG points out, it is something that has to be documented in the Lease.  Unfortunately, even with these restrictions in a Lease, in most places across Canada the tenants have more Rights than the Landlords, so it will be quite a court battle for the Landlord to evict a non-compliant tenant.

I would suspect in the legalization you would not be allowed to plant outdoors as it is a narcotic and could be stolen by under age youth or anyone else. As long as its put in the lease agreement, much like smoking or damage to the apartment grounds for eviction.
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Offline Larry Strong

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2017, 09:55:52 »
Lots of landlords have had their investments ruined due to illegal production of cannabis,



Caused by grow ops growing 10's to 100's of plants at the time.....not four 1 meter high plants.....bit of a red herring...........


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Offline Larry Strong

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2017, 09:59:54 »
I would suspect in the legalization you would not be allowed to plant outdoors as it is a narcotic and could be stolen by under age youth or anyone else. As long as its put in the lease agreement, much like smoking or damage to the apartment grounds for eviction.

People are already allowed to grow medicinal plants out side.......I agree a community garden would not be a good choice......if my experience with community gardens and growing veggies are any indication of what happens to plants.....


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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Legal Pot for Canada (and the taxes from it)
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2017, 10:10:06 »
People are already allowed to grow medicinal plants out side.......I agree a community garden would not be a good choice......if my experience with community gardens and growing veggies are any indication of what happens to plants.....


Cheers
Larry

Cool I didn't know that. I wonder that because its set to be more common place that would change? I can see a person who say has a basement apartment for rent, rents it out and finds some weed pants in the garden from the tenants having a problem if they have teenage kids. Legal or not I believe we have an obligation to keep it away from youth. Doing an comparison to alcohol (liquor), people are not allowed to distill yet we see no problem growing it in a dwelling.
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