Author Topic: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)  (Read 8110 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Not exactly claiming a medal, but ...

What.  The.  F#$%^&*k???
Quote
Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan has apologized to Canadian, American and Afghan troops that he served with in Afghanistan for claiming that he was the “architect” of Canada’s most famous and bloodiest combat operation of that war.

The minister made the claim in a speech last week in India. He told a gathering of security experts in New Delhi on April 18 that “on my first deployment to Kandahar in 2006, I was the architect of Operation Medusa where we removed 1,500 Taliban fighters off the battlefield … and I was proudly on the main assault.”

The description was denounced as “a bald-faced lie” by a retired Canadian officer familiar with the planning done for Operation Medusa in the late summer and fall of 2006. Other officers who served in Afghanistan expressed similar anger and disappointment in Sajjan’s speech.

“What I should have said was that our military successes are the result of the leadership, service and sacrifice of the many dedicated women and men in the Canadian Forces,” Sajjan said in a statement on Thursday. “I regret that I didn’t say this then, but I want to do so now.”

“Every military operation our Forces undertook in Afghanistan, including Operation Medusa, relied on the courage and dedication of many individuals across the Canadian Forces. My comments were in no way intended to diminish the role that my fellow soldiers and my superiors played in Op Medusa.” ...
Here's the speech text (also archived) - also attached if links don't work for you.
 :facepalm:
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    is thinking beach volleyball.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 231,685
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,569
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 08:15:39 »
Time to resign.  That is all....
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Online jollyjacktar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 131,072
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,452
  • My uncle F/Sgt W.H.S. Buckwell KIA 14/05/43 22YOA
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 08:28:17 »
Very disappointed with this.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Chief Stoker

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 730,512
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Arctic SME
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 08:29:41 »
So the question is this the same as wearing medals you are not entitled to and given his former rank and his new position should he resign? I say yes however I doubt if he will.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

كافر

Offline FSTO

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 25,935
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,309
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 08:53:17 »
What would compel him to do this? Its one thing to tell tall tales in the Legion basement, but as the MND at a speech on the world stage?
C'mon man! :facepalm:

Offline LunchMeat

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 15,570
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 628
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 09:10:12 »
I initially thought, his speech having been presented in India, it was a misconstrued/mistranslation....


....that is until the official transcript came out, followed by his retraction.

Utter disappointment.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 09:16:08 »
I'm kinda surprised that, considering how many levels of OK such thing have to go thru, that nobody picked up on that bit before it got to print.

As someone waaaaaay smarter than me once said around these parts, folks don't resign like they used to these days ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline FSTO

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 25,935
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,309
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 09:18:47 »
I'm kinda surprised that, considering how many levels of OK such thing have to go thru, that nobody picked up on that bit before it got to print.

As someone waaaaaay smarter than me once said around these parts, folks don't resign like they used to these days ...

Cudmore takes the hit?

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2017, 09:28:33 »
Cudmore takes the hit?
I don't know how much contact the Director of Policy in the Minister's Office has with this kind of communications product as part of the approvals "sausage machine", so I couldn't even guess that at this point.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Rifleman62

    Retired.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 71,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,416
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2017, 09:29:58 »
Quote
“on my first deployment to Kandahar in 2006, I was the architect of Operation Medusa where we removed 1,500 Taliban fighters off the battlefield … and I was proudly on the main assault.”

Quote
I'm kinda surprised that, considering how many levels of OK such thing have to go thru, that nobody picked up on that bit before it got to print.

His statement was massive: "the architect" of a operation does lead someone to wonder. Also  ...." I was  proudly on the main assault.”

Me, that's pretty damn good for a Militia officer, in the midst of a real war dominated with Cdn military professionals, especially as he was Staff  doing the "plans, designs, and reviews" of the Op, then going on the main assault.

Now we see why he ran for the Lieliberal party.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 09:36:09 by Rifleman62 »
Never Congratulate Yourself In Victory, Nor Blame Your Horses In Defeat - Old Cossack Expression

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 09:32:42 »
His statement was massive: "the architect" of a operation does lead someone to wonder ...
Even if they'd written "an" instead of "the", it may have been at least ... wiggle-roomy, but this is pretty definite, indeed.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Halifax Tar

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 33,648
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,423
  • Ready Aye Ready
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2017, 09:49:25 »
His statement was massive: "the architect" of a operation does lead someone to wonder. Also  ...." I was  proudly on the main assault.”

Me, that's pretty damn good for a Militia officer, in the midst of a real war dominated with Cdn military professionals, especially as he was Staff  doing the "plans, designs, and reviews" of the Op, then going on the main assault.

Now we see why he ran for the Lieliberal party.

He's been played up as the "warrior politician" by the media, perhaps assumptions were made by his staffers ?  Or he simply began to see history different than it actually happened, maybe ?

Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 09:58:23 »
He's been played up as the "warrior politician" by the media, perhaps assumptions were made by his staffers ?
1)  That's supposed to be why a number of sets of eyes (both bureaucratic and political, usually) look at such stuff before it's approved and handed to the Minister, so if that's what happened, #SystemFail.
2)  The job of his staffers is presumably to ensure things are correct, not just congruent with media narrative.*
... Or he simply began to see history different than it actually happened, maybe ?
Only he can know that for sure ...

* - Yeah, I know that's an ... optimistic statement when it comes to political statements developed/groomed by political staff, but the general principle still applies - you have to know reality before you can adequately bend it.  If bureaucrats handled this at some point, though, it IS their job to "speak reality to power".
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Rifleman62

    Retired.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 71,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,416
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 10:20:41 »
He read the speech before hand and undoubtedly rehearsed the presentation. Even if he didn't, when he got to the inflated parts, a WTF second and ad libbed to correct the speech.

Absolutely inexcusable conduct.

The only thing missing was  " I was proudly bravely on the first wave of the main assault.”

Was he on the main assault?
Never Congratulate Yourself In Victory, Nor Blame Your Horses In Defeat - Old Cossack Expression

Offline Old Sweat

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 200,350
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,354
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 10:24:54 »
I have seen a favourable reference to him in a FOO party's log from that time frame. He was working developing intelligence in the forward area, so he probably had a role in establishing the enemy paragraph of the operation order. To claim anything more was a lapse in judgement and a case of ego run amok, something politicians do all too frequently.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 10:27:48 »
He read the speech before hand and undoubtedly rehearsed the presentation.
In my limited experience with the government info-machine, this may or may not happen, depending on the Minister or the circumstance, so that's never a "for sure".  That said ...
... when he got to the inflated parts, a WTF second and ad libbed to correct the speech.
:nod:  One would hope ...
Absolutely inexcusable conduct.
Line crossed, indeed ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 172,410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,639
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2017, 11:29:57 »
He read the speech before hand and undoubtedly rehearsed the presentation. Even if he didn't, when he got to the inflated parts, a WTF second and ad libbed to correct the speech.

Absolutely inexcusable conduct.

The only thing missing was  " I was proudly bravely on the first wave of the main assault.”

Was he on the main assault?

Of course. The Regs always position the Senior Officer reservists in the front rank during major battles.... it saves wear and tear on the minesweepers :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline HB_Pencil

  • Member
  • ****
  • 8,995
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 233
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2017, 13:58:42 »
This wasn't the first time he said it.

Online jollyjacktar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 131,072
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,452
  • My uncle F/Sgt W.H.S. Buckwell KIA 14/05/43 22YOA
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2017, 14:47:53 »
I know he has James Cudmore on staff as one ex journalist, who's his speech writer?  Brian Williams?!?   ::)
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2017, 14:49:40 »
This wasn't the first time he said it.
In public?
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 427,085
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,389
  • Crewman
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2017, 16:10:03 »
This wasn't the first time he said it.

DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 405,005
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,390
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2017, 16:32:49 »

Funny and partisan, all rolled into one, but that doesn't answer my original question ...  :P
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 63,485
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,328
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2017, 18:17:10 »
I know he has James Cudmore on staff as one ex journalist, who's his speech writer?  Brian Williams?!?   ::)

Sgt Frank Gervais. 
Optio

Offline HB_Pencil

  • Member
  • ****
  • 8,995
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 233
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2017, 18:18:50 »
In public?

I'm pretty sure in public. There's been a "role inflation" that has been going on for quite awhile.

Offline Breacher

  • Guest
  • *
  • 1,045
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4
Re: Def Min's "Architect" Statements (split fm Walts et. al.)
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2017, 19:57:25 »
In public?

I found this video on David Akin's Twitter feed. The video was posted in July of 2015. The "architect" statement is made around the 14 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1fWSq0mnXM