Author Topic: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)  (Read 44640 times)

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Offline Shamrock

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2006, 21:24:18 »
MOOXE, what you're arguing is prescriptive grammar ("The Rules") vs. descriptive grammar (usage).  Descriptive grammar is fluid and dynamic yet is not always reflective of prescriptive grammar; over time and if persistent enough, descriptive grammar can replace previous prescriptions.  Linguists are now debating the grammatical correctness of "whom" given the broad usage of "who" in any case. 

Certainly, the Internet (and now other forms of e-mail and IM) is having an influence on the way we communicate.  There's no denying that Internet English has broad usage.  However, the persistence of this form of communication is questionable. 

Next point, this is Army.Ca.  Army comes from some language meaning detail-oriented, accurate, and disciplined (translations vary.  To some, army translates into anal-retentive, pedantic, anachronistic but the gist remains the same).  Ca means Canadian, which means professional and courteous.  In this forum, non-standard English (either RSE or AE or both) is viewed as lazy and disrespectful.  Imagine a troop coming up to the CO unshaven and pockets undone and firing off a lazy salute with his left hand.  Sure, there was an intent to communicate, and to some people that's fine...

Offline Gunnar

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2006, 21:29:19 »
English has a standard, and a commonly accepted standard at that.  If I can't understand your message, and I need to waste time looking up things because you are incapable of using standard English, I will do one of two things:  I will ignore you completely, as you cannot be trusted to communicate reliably, or I will continue on with my own interpretation of what I think you meant, because you're always saying things that sound like language, but aren't.

Option 2 might not be that worrisome until I'm wiring the Claymore just behind where you went off to take a dump.  Maybe you told me...who the hell knows what you say when you open your mouth anyway?

In the military, bad communications get people killed.  When you are up to your eyeballs in mud and getting shot at,  you may not have the ability to balance your laptop on your latte mug to look up the latest English slang on the Internet.  It might in fact be more useful to you if you understood what your comrades in arms were saying.  It isn't bleeding edge, it isn't evolutionary, it's simply effective.  Language is for communication, not for cutesy, pedantic word games at the expense of communication.

Now, Army.ca is a site run by, for and with military members.  Do the math.  You want to play in this club, follow our rules, otherwise bugger off.



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Offline Shamrock

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2006, 21:38:22 »
What Gunnar said.

Right now, I'm laughing myself silly thinking of Joe Rifleman yelling to his section commander in the middle of an A2C "Sarge! BRB AFR 1 sec K?"

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2006, 21:53:32 »
MOOXE, even the weekly street rags published in most urban centres, which target you young hipsters, aren't yet being written in leet speek, when they are, come back with your argument.


Offline big bad john (John Hill)

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2006, 22:18:22 »
Now, Army.ca is a site run by, for and with military members.  Do the math.  You want to play in this club, follow our rules, otherwise bugger off.


I would hope that he would get the drift by now.  Also try a real dictionary if you want the answer: the Oxford English Dictionary  http://www.oed.com/

Offline MCG

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2006, 12:03:22 »
This quote, taken from another thread, gives a good explanation of the requirement and where it comes from.
CRZY214,

while your posts may be understood, that does not mean that net-speak is appropriate for any on line purpose. You wouldn't chatter at your grandparents or your principal in street slang, because it is more difficult for them to understand you, it insults their role in your life and it would make you look foolish to them and perhaps incapable of communicating properly in polite company.

Just as you adjust your spoken dialogue to meet the circumstances and audience, you should apply the same criteria in online situations. This forum, like many areas of the web, is NOT populated entirely by the pre-pubescent teens on your MSN contact list. We are not in your schoolyard or on your street corner chewing gum and chatting about skating and grls.

We, at Army.ca are mostly adults, ranging in age from your own to some senior enough to be your grandparent. We include many soldiers, sailors and airmen currently serving in the Canadian Forces, many who have previously served who follow military topics through the forum, and others thinking about joining. The average expectation is reasoned and asked/answered inquiries presented in clearly written Queen's English (or Francais in the applicable forum). Among other things, use of proper English (French) allows effective searches to be made for information.

Please keep in mind where you are when you post here, it makes obtaining useful responses to your questions so much more effective.

Offline MOOXE

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2006, 20:25:39 »
MOOXE, even the weekly street rags published in most urban centres, which target you young hipsters, aren't yet being written in leet speek, when they are, come back with your argument.

Ok I am not that young, and I do not use the leet speak. I know who does use it, and I know why. I also see the language changing because after all, this is the future generation. Things that dont adapt, dont survive. These weekly street rags you speak of, may not be using the ROFL etc shorthand, they do however write in a way that the youngsters can understand. That point is not valid though. Net speak is used to save time at typing (which has in turn created a sub culture), people who publish magazines have no need to save time, atleast the time it takes to type out ROFL. As a side note though, some do use leet speak, but not anywhere near the majority. So anyways....

Sure excessive use is annoying and I will most likely skip that post to. I wont however engage is a flamewar saying its inappropriate, especially if someone only uses a couple abbreviations. The language does appeal to many and is now very common.

For Gunner...

"In the military, bad communications get people killed.  When you are up to your eyeballs in mud and getting shot at,  you may not have the ability to balance your laptop on your latte mug to look up the latest English slang on the Internet.  It might in fact be more useful to you if you understood what your comrades in arms were saying.  It isn't bleeding edge, it isn't evolutionary, it's simply effective.  Language is for communication, not for cutesy, pedantic word games at the expense of communication."

This, forums.army.ca, is not the military. Its a wide open forum available for ANYONE to join and talk. Theres no requirement to speak like your in the army or like someones life depends on what you say in your post. Its also not a training ground for learning how to communicate effectively in the army. Military members know (or will learn quickly after they join) that using non standard abbreviations in comms logs, any type of written request, radio chatter and just any form of comms is not allowed.

In summary. Net speak really isnt that hard to understand, I really, honestly cant believe someone here has had any real difficulty reading a forum post, unless there has been some extreme case. Its not a question of respect that CRZY214 states and people dont use this language to speak to a section commander as Shamrock states,(nobody says BEE-ARE-BEE). To be blunt you can just say the forum rules are this, follow them or dont participate here........ and then you can read lifes rules book that states learn or get left behind.

Offline MCG

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2006, 20:31:07 »
To be blunt you can just say the forum rules are this, follow them or dont participate here
Mooxe,
That little bit of your post is what matters.  This rule is not open to debate.  Follow it or you will be gone.
If it helps you sleep at night, you can think you are leaving us behind.  This debate is now closed.

Offline kratz

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2017, 14:27:58 »
from CBC.ca

The importance of proper grammar, spelling and use of punctuation continues to erode.
In our role as CAF members, the requirement for clear, concise, coherent writing can not be
emphasised or reinforced often enough.  Today's news report updates the discussion to include
modern short hand tweets and emoji writing, as not acceptable in a military or business setting:

Quote
Using the wrong emoji can cost you — literally
A recent case in the Israeli courts saw a defendant pay $3000 over a few texts and emojis
By Ramona Pringle, for CBC News  Posted: May 26, 2017 5:00 AM ET| Last Updated: May 26, 2017 5:00 AM ET

Imagine if an emoji — one casually fired off in a text-message conversation — ended up costing the sender thousands of dollars. Or $3,000, to be exact.

That's what happened in Israel recently, after a judge determined that a message containing a string of emojis conveyed clear intent. 

The case was a dispute over rent. A landlord placed an ad for his apartment online, and a prospective renter sent the landlord a series of texts, including one that read, "Good morning — <smiley face> — we want the house — <flamenco dancer>, <dancing girls>, <peace sign>, <comet>, <squirrel>, <champagne bottle> —  just need to go over the details…When suits you?"

Based on this and a few other texts, the landlord removed the listing, presuming the renter's intent to take the apartment.

But the renter didn't follow up and never signed any documents. In fact, she disappeared after a few days of communication, which eventually led to this lawsuit.

According to the judge's ruling, the text messages — and the emojis, in particular — signalled clear interest on the part of the renter:

"The…text message sent by defendant…included a smiley, a bottle of champagne, dancing figures and more,"  he wrote. "These icons convey great optimism. Although this message did not constitute a binding contract between the parties, this message naturally led to the plaintiff's great reliance on the defendants' desire to rent his apartment…These symbols, which convey to the other side that everything is in order, were misleading."

The decision also made note of the consistency of the emoji use:

"The festive icons at the beginning of the negotiations...and those smileys at the end of the negotiations...misled the plaintiff to think the defendants were still interested in his apartment. [They] support the conclusion that the defendants acted in bad faith in the negotiations."

The judge ordered the defendant to pay the equivalent of just over $3,000 Canadian dollars.

Shifting communication

While this all might seem a little silly, it signals a not-so-silly shift in the way communication is changing. Short messages can deliver major consequences. Images, emojis and 140-character messages carry weight like never before.

The president of the United States, for example, can send markets tumbling or put foreign leaders on alert with just a short burst on Twitter, his platform of choice. And every few months, a scandal hits the headlines in which someone has resigned from his or her job based on a tweet —presumably, one issued with hardly a second thought.

But this ruling on emojis has set a totally new precedent and raised all sorts of new questions. Top of mind is this: who decides what a particular emoji means? While some are very clear — it's easy to make the argument that a champagne bottle says, "Let's pop open the bubbly to celebrate our new home!" —  many others are open to vast interpretation.

For instance, what was the meaning of the squirrel emoji in the renter's text? Or what if someone sends someone else a water gun emoji — could that constitute a threat? And doesn't the commonly used grimacing face look an awful lot like a happy smile?

The answer, of course, is that there is no objective answer — not yet. Which means we need to be ever more vigilant in taking that extra second before we hit "enter" to decide if that tweet, or text, or emoji is the one we really want to send. As we know, the consequences can sometimes be <dollar bills> emoji.
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Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: Correct Grammar, Punctuation... vs Text (Tweets, Emoji…)
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2017, 15:53:56 »
from CBC.ca

The importance of proper grammar, spelling and use of punctuation continues to erode.
In our role as CAF members, the requirement for clear, concise, coherent writing can not be
emphasised or reinforced often enough.  Today's news report updates the discussion to include
modern short hand tweets and emoji writing, as not acceptable in a military or business setting:
As an educational leader and military member I concur.


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