Author Topic: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge  (Read 3911 times)

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Offline tomahawk6

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3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« on: June 03, 2017, 18:04:25 »
Armed police are on the scene.This is breaking news...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40146916

Police are responding to reports that a van has hit a number of pedestrians on London Bridge in central London.
Witnesses have said that armed officers are understood to be at the scene after a white transit van mounted the pavement before driving into people.
The Met Police say they are dealing with an incident on the bridge and "multiple resources" are in attendance.
Transport for London said the bridge has been closed in both directions due to a "major police incident".

- mod edit to add date to thread title -
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 19:57:27 by milnews.ca »

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 20:01:36 »
Keep in mind the usual attached caveats ...

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2017, 22:44:50 »
There are reports of citizens throwing chairs at the attackers after the unarmed police retreated. Although it didnt take long for the armed police to arrive on scene. In a situation like that you have to be ready to defend yourself until the cavalry arrives.

Offline Brihard

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2017, 22:58:03 »
Police now confirm:
- 'The' suspects (3) shot and killed by police within eight minutes of the attack beginning.
- 'Further inquiries' being made on whether there are additional suspects.
- Suspects had mock IED vests.

So it reads as if the threat is in fact stopped.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2017, 23:05:49 »
There are reports of citizens throwing chairs at the attackers after the unarmed police retreated. Although it didnt take long for the armed police to arrive on scene. In a situation like that you have to be ready to defend yourself until the cavalry arrives.

Not all the unarmed police retreated, many were pictured putting themselves between the knifemen who had the visible mock-Suicide vests on and civilians, despite only being armed with their batons and close range pepper spray.

Not to mention the guy who chased the attackers, throwing pint glasses at them and managed to save a few drunk girls by distracting them as they attacked the girls.

Offline Brihard

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2017, 23:10:54 »
Britain is going to need to take a hard look at whether it still makes sense for police to not all be armed. While the odds of any one individual officer ever needing to fire their weapon will be slim, it would greatly increase the likelihood of a rapid intervention with sufficient force to stop an active threat in these instances. While Britain's policing model has largely sufficed for most crime (although we have seemed armed officers increasing in number and availability), police are increasingly going to be looked to to be the security against attacks such as these. Police should never be in the business of getting into fair fights, and the only way to have an advantage over a knife is with a gun.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2017, 23:19:44 »
Britain is going to need to take a hard look at whether it still makes sense for police to not all be armed. While the odds of any one individual officer ever needing to fire their weapon will be slim, it would greatly increase the likelihood of a rapid intervention with sufficient force to stop an active threat in these instances. While Britain's policing model has largely sufficed for most crime (although we have seemed armed officers increasing in number and availability), police are increasingly going to be looked to to be the security against attacks such as these. Police should never be in the business of getting into fair fights, and the only way to have an advantage over a knife is with a gun.

I don't think arming our general officers is a good move.

We are vastly improving the numbers of AFOs, and ARV units, 10x the patrol and presence. However we're not doing it rapidly enough and we started the program too late to cover this attack.

However maybe putting one AFO into every police patrol or per area/per x amount of officers would be a idea, armed with just a Glock or other sidearm incase of something like this.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2017, 23:35:52 »
Inclined to agree with you Brihard. Think the UK really needs to take a look at the unarmed police issue. The violence in Europe and the UK is getting worse, not better.

Carbine sized  308 might  improve odds against weaponized vehicles.
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2017, 23:41:32 »
I don't think arming our general officers is a good move.

We are vastly improving the numbers of AFOs, and ARV units, 10x the patrol and presence. However we're not doing it rapidly enough and we started the program too late to cover this attack.

However maybe putting one AFO into every police patrol or per area/per x amount of officers would be a idea, armed with just a Glock or other sidearm incase of something like this.

A Remington Defender in every car would be a big help.  When seconds count, fire support is minutes away.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Brihard

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 23:44:09 »
I don't think arming our general officers is a good move.

I do, but I'm just a soldier and a cop in an urban centre with specific training for dealing with exactly this kind of active threat.

If even one police officer was in contact with these attackers before any armed officers were, and if even one civilian was injured subsequent to that contact, then that officer, if armed, could have prevented harm to the public, and should have been properly equipped to do so.

For police, the availability of firearms is simply an occupational health and safety issue. Britain, it appears, can no longer afford the luxury of waiting for armed officers to arrive on scene.


Carbine sized  308 might  improve odds against weaponized vehicles.

Hard to say.. Realistically nay firearm carried will need to be appropriate to the vast majority of police encounters, not specifically tailored to this threat. If the point of guns is to stop a moving vehicle, then that's a different ball game - and really it's still not a great idea.

I've looked at a bunch of these attacks now, and I walked the ground at Nice a few days after it happened there. That one was a rare exception in how long it went on, and in that case the vehicle was actually stopped by a combination of police force and by damage sustained in running so much over. In most instances, the vehicles are stopped because the drivers either crash them, or voluntarily exist to continue the attack on foot. Realistically, a rogue vehicle will probably be only effectively and quickly stopped by putting another vehicle in front of it to immobilize it. The use of firearms, then, would be to respond to the occupants, who will likely remain an active threat until stopped.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2017, 23:50:27 »
A couple of deer slugs through a door panel does a great job of slowing a vehicle down, I'd imagine.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2017, 23:53:40 »
An SAS unit was deployed by helicopter pretty rapidly.

Offline Brihard

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2017, 23:59:45 »
A couple of deer slugs through a door panel does a great job of slowing a vehicle down, I'd imagine.

Only if the driver is struck an incapacitated. Good luck making that shot... Better be sure of your backstop.

Guns are a terrible option for stopping vehicles. Sometimes the terrible option is still your best one.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2017, 00:06:03 »
I thought it was implied that through the door panel would be the most direct route to the driver's inner workings. If it's what you've got, it's what you use.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 00:32:12 »
I've stopped a gentlemen in a speeding car with some liberaly placed fmj 7.62 rounds.  Maybe not the best option in a friendly urban environment but when I think of the easy of access of vehicles combined with how destructive they are I'm leaving towards more heavy handed methods of stopping those jerks.

Cracking down on extremists and turning that PC afraid to be called racist stuff would be effective too I think.

Maybe explore more police forces switching to 300blk in their ar15s or something.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 00:53:52 »
I've stopped a gentlemen in a speeding car with some liberaly placed fmj 7.62 rounds.  Maybe not the best option in a friendly urban environment but when I think of the easy of access of vehicles combined with how destructive they are I'm leaving towards more heavy handed methods of stopping those jerks.

Cracking down on extremists and turning that PC afraid to be called racist stuff would be effective too I think.

Maybe explore more police forces switching to 300blk in their ar15s or something.

Yup, but that'll be rare circumstances- and I bet in your case you had a belt fed. Assume anything police are carrying will be semiautomatic and a pistol or rifle (or still potentially shotgun). Police have to be far more cognizant of their backstop than soldiers in a war zone, it's just a different legal picture, and that definitely impacts what can be procured. Is it possible to incapacitate a driver with fire? Absolutely. It's just not likely to work, and there's a host of police experience and resulting policy coming from same.

More I'd like to say on the issue of stopping vehicles, but not on these means.

I thought it was implied that through the door panel would be the most direct route to the driver's inner workings. If it's what you've got, it's what you use.

Sure, but hitting the driver does not inherently mean incapacitation. Unless you hit the brain/spinal cord, or they rapidly bleed out, you won't get a physical stop. Now, you may get a psychological stop- either quitting (unlikely), bailing out of the vehicle (possible) or getting distracted and crashing (more possible).

I'm not saying guns aren't a tool that can be used to stop cars. Sure they can. A screwdriver can be used as a hammer in some circumstances. I'm just saying you don't equip with guns to stop vehicles (in this context), you equip with guns to stop humans.

I think the best bet is target hardening. Configure more open roads such that there are physical barriers to driving up on sidewalks, across medians, etc. make it more likely to crash or get stuck. So we can shoot you in the face more easily.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 00:59:57 by Brihard »
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2017, 01:45:11 »
Great point. Yes to the belt but it was a standard length burst  :camo:

Interesting idea about making urban areas harder targets  (I love walls and fortifications) but I think the sheer scope of modifying urban centers like that would be too expensive and chaotic.  A new city might lend itself well to that design though.

Any bets on if the attackers were 'known to the police' or had suspicious neighbours afraid to speak up?

A bit of a tangent but do you think police need a heavier caliber than a 5.56 (encompassing regular work and stuff like this)?
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2017, 03:00:10 »
I guess the best bet trying to take out a vehicle going at speed with the kind of rounds Armed Police carry, is the engine block. But its not a action to plan on, besides the fact its unlikely for police to respond before the vehicle crashes (Nice was a very long situation).

With regards making these areas a hard target, thats something thats been slowly going on for the last few years in the UK. Its not obvious stuff like concrete blocks or dragon teeth, but benches that are made out of concrete that go deep into the ground, metal bus stops, reinforcing street signs and making it much harder to 1. drive into pedestrian areas and 2. stay in these areas.

Obviously I'm not a expert in these areas so I'm not going to try to claim to be, I just like to research what measure are going on and how the Police/authorities respond to these incidents.

I think the creation of the CTSFOs is a good thing, for those unaware the way Armed Police works in the UK is three levels of qualification that have different jobs, the entry level being Authorised Firearm Officer (AFO) who are trained to carry rifles and sidearms, patrol in Armed Response Vehicles and respond to incidents as required. Specialist Firearms Officers (SFOs) build upon this training to conduct more specialist stuff such as raids and hostage situations etc. Now with Counter-Terrorist Specialist Firearms Officers (CTSFOs) they're building regional teams that train solely for CT incidents and responses, with much upgraded equipment and weaponry, to a extremely high level of training (training and operating with UKSF).

I think that its important to get CTSFO units rolled out to every region in the UK, as currently just London and Manchester have them I believe, with Scotland next on the list. That way theres a dedicated unit with the appropriate skills, training and equipment to deal with these incidents, in a good response time.

Jarnhamar, depending on the Police Force the firearms officers work in, they get different weapons, for example CTSFOs use the SIG MCX 5.56mm as standard, with some larger calibre rifles embedded, where as some Forces still roll with MP5s and SG550s. Although you won't find larger calibres being carried in armed response vehicles. Maybe they need some sort of anti-vehicle capability with these attacks on the rise. Prehaps using some sort of specialist 40mm projectile in their 40mm launchers?

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2017, 09:17:55 »
Some of the latest ...

And, to bring just a tiny spark of levity to a pretty F#$%^&*d up event, in the midst of the fracas, at least one Londoner keeps his head ...

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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2017, 11:35:48 »
>a van has hit a number of pedestrians

I greatly enjoy the phrasing used by the media in the initial stages of these attacks.  Looking forward to the arrest of the van, the truck, the firearms, etc.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2017, 12:17:09 »
Inclined to agree with you Brihard. Think the UK really needs to take a look at the unarmed police issue. The violence in Europe and the UK is getting worse, not better.

Carbine sized  308 might  improve odds against weaponized vehicles.

Even better, and more proactive? A larger, more effective network of snitches and 'deep cover' under cover operators.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2017, 12:48:55 »
Even better, and more proactive? A larger, more effective network of snitches and 'deep cover' under cover operators.

I am convinced its a matter of time before we see more of that here.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2017, 12:57:25 »
This from the Metro Police via Twitter:
Quote
12 arrests in connection with last night's attacks in #LondonBridge & #BoroughMarket ...
This update, from the Metro Police (highilghts mine) ...
Quote
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, provides updated statement following the terror attacks in London Bridge and Borough Market.

He said:

"The investigation is progressing at pace, and officers from the Met’s Counter Terrorism Command, the National Counter Terrorism Policing network are working relentlessly with UK intelligence partners to piece together exactly what occurred.

"We have already made significant progress, but of course, there remains much more to do.

"We are making significant progress in identifying the three attackers, and that there were no other suspects at the scene, when the attack was carried out.

"Work is ongoing to understand more about them, their connections and whether they were assisted or supported by anyone else. As I think you are aware there are searches ongoing in east London, and 12 arrests have been made. There is of course more to do, and we will work relentlessly to establish the facts.

"We have established that the van used during the attack, a white Renault van - was recently hired by one of the attackers.

"Our understanding is growing and as we currently understand it the van entered London Bridge at 21:58 travelling from the North to the South side of the river. The van mounted the pavement, and collided with pedestrians before being abandoned, where the attackers, armed with knives, continued into the Borough Market area, stabbing numerous people.

"The attackers were then confronted by the firearms officers and I can confirm that eight police firearms officers discharged their weapons. Whilst this will be subject to thorough investigation by the IPCC our initial assessment is that in the region of 50 rounds were discharged by 8 officers. The three attackers were shot dead.

The situation these officers were confronted with was critical – a matter of life and death – three armed men, wearing what appeared to be suicide belts, had already attacked and killed members of the public and had to be stopped immediately.

"Indeed I am not surprised that faced with what they must have feared were three suicide bombers - the firearms officers fired an unprecedented number of rounds to be completely confident they had neutralised those threats. I am humbled by the bravery of an officer who will rush towards a potential suicide bomber thinking only of protecting others.

"As the officers confronted the terrorists – and were shot – a member of the public also suffered gunshot wounds. Although we do not believe the injuries to critical in nature, they are in hospital receiving medical attention. We will of course keep you updated on that.

"Seven people have been killed, in addition to the three attackers. Work to inform the next of kin of the victims is ongoing – this may take some time, as we believe some of these victims are from abroad.

"36 people remain in hospital, suffering from a range of injuries – some of which are extremely serious. 21 remain in a critical condition.

"You will have heard earlier today about the British Transport Police who sustained injuries in the attack. I can confirm that an off duty Met-Officer, based on Southwark borough, was caught up in the attack. Fortunately he has not suffered life threatening injuries, but he remains in hospital in a serious condition.

"The investigation team are taking statements from hundreds of witnesses and I again appeal for anyone with information or footage of the incident to contact police.

"The cordons in and around the London Bridge and Borough Market area will remain in place, and we encourage the public to avoid the area as our investigation is ongoing. This will have an impact on travel arrangements as we head in to Monday morning, and would ask everyone to check with their travel operators and seek alternative routes wherever possible.

"The public can expect to see additional police – both armed and unarmed officers - across the Capital. And our security and policing plans for events are being reviewed. The public will also see an increased physical measures in order to keep public safe on London’s bridges.

Finally, I ask the public to remain calm but vigilant - and if you see anything suspicious, no matter how insignificant you might think it is, please contact the anti-terrorism hotline on 0800 789 321. It may be a vital piece of information."
This statement from the PM* - also attached if link doesn't work ...
Quote

Last night, our country fell victim to a brutal terrorist attack once again. As a result I have just chaired a meeting of the government’s emergency committee and I want to update you with the latest information about the attack.

Shortly before 10:10 yesterday evening, the Metropolitan Police received reports that a white van had struck pedestrians on London Bridge. It continued to drive from London Bridge to Borough Market, where 3 terrorists left the van and attacked innocent and unarmed civilians with blades and knives.

All 3 were wearing what appeared to be explosive vests, but the police have established that this clothing was fake and worn only to spread panic and fear.

As so often in such serious situations, the police responded with great courage and great speed. Armed officers from the Metropolitan Police and the City of London Police arrived at Borough Market within moments, and shot and killed the 3 suspects. The terrorists were confronted and shot by armed officers within 8 minutes of the police receiving the first emergency call.

Seven people have died as a result of the attack, in addition to the 3 suspects shot dead by the police. Forty-eight people are being treated in several hospitals across London. Many have life-threatening conditions.

On behalf of the people of London, and on behalf of the whole country, I want to thank and pay tribute to the professionalism and bravery of the police and the emergency services – and the courage of members of the public who defended themselves and others from the attackers. And our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and with their friends, families and loved ones.

This is, as we all know, the third terrorist attack Britain has experienced in the last 3 months. In March, a similar attack took place, just around the corner on Westminster Bridge. Two weeks ago, the Manchester Arena was attacked by a suicide bomber. And now London has been struck once more.

And at the same time, the security and intelligence agencies and police have disrupted 5 credible plots since the Westminster attack in March.

In terms of their planning and execution, the recent attacks are not connected. But we believe we are experiencing a new trend in the threat we face, as terrorism breeds terrorism, and perpetrators are inspired to attack not only on the basis of carefully-constructed plots after years of planning and training – and not even as lone attackers radicalised online – but by copying one another and often using the crudest of means of attack.

We cannot and must not pretend that things can continue as they are. Things need to change, and they need to change in 4 important ways.

First, while the recent attacks are not connected by common networks, they are connected in one important sense. They are bound together by the single, evil ideology of Islamist extremism that preaches hatred, sows division, and promotes sectarianism. It is an ideology that claims our Western values of freedom, democracy and human rights are incompatible with the religion of Islam. It is an ideology that is a perversion of Islam and a perversion of the truth.

Defeating this ideology is one of the great challenges of our time. But it cannot be defeated through military intervention alone. It will not be defeated through the maintenance of a permanent, defensive counter-terrorism operation, however skilful its leaders and practitioners. It will only be defeated when we turn people’s minds away from this violence – and make them understand that our values – pluralistic, British values – are superior to anything offered by the preachers and supporters of hate.

Second, we cannot allow this ideology the safe space it needs to breed. Yet that is precisely what the internet – and the big companies that provide internet-based services – provide. We need to work with allied, democratic governments to reach international agreements that regulate cyberspace to prevent the spread of extremism and terrorist planning. And we need to do everything we can at home to reduce the risks of extremism online.

Third, while we need to deprive the extremists of their safe spaces online, we must not forget about the safe spaces that continue to exist in the real world. Yes, that means taking military action to destroy ISIS in Iraq and Syria. But it also means taking action here at home. While we have made significant progress in recent years, there is – to be frank – far too much tolerance of extremism in our country.

So we need to become far more robust in identifying it and stamping it out – across the public sector and across society. That will require some difficult and often embarrassing conversations, but the whole of our country needs to come together to take on this extremism – and we need to live our lives not in a series of separated, segregated communities but as one truly United Kingdom.

Fourth, we have a robust counter-terrorism strategy that has proved successful over many years. But as the nature of the threat we face becomes more complex, more fragmented, more hidden, especially online, the strategy needs to keep up. So in light of what we are learning about the changing threat, we need to review Britain’s counter-terrorism strategy to make sure the police and security services have all the powers they need.

And if we need to increase the length of custodial sentences for terrorism-related offences, even apparently less serious offences, that is what we will do.

Since the emergence of the threat from Islamist-inspired terrorism, our country has made significant progress in disrupting plots and protecting the public. But it is time to say enough is enough. Everybody needs to go about their lives as they normally would. Our society should continue to function in accordance with our values. But when it comes to taking on extremism and terrorism, things need to change.

As a mark of respect the 2 political parties have suspended our national campaigns for today. But violence can never be allowed to disrupt the democratic process. So those campaigns will resume in full tomorrow. And the general election will go ahead as planned on Thursday.

As a country, our response must be as it has always been when we have been confronted by violence. We must come together, we must pull together, and united we will take on and defeat our enemies.
* - A reminder:  Theresa May was the Home Secretary - "top cop" in grossly oversimplified headline-speak, Public Safety Minister in current Canadian cabinet-position-speak - from 2010 until 2016 (when she became PM).  It also appears her time as HomeSec was as part of what we would call in Canada Tory minority governments.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2017, 13:04:11 »
And word that a Canadian has been killed, via the PMJT info-machine...
Quote
The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today issued the following statement after last night’s terrorist attack in the United Kingdom:

“Canada strongly condemns the senseless attack that took place last night in London, United Kingdom, which killed and injured many innocent people. I am heartbroken that a Canadian is among those killed.

“We grieve with the families and friends of those who have lost loved ones, and wish all those injured a speedy and full recovery.

"Londoners and people across the United Kingdom have always displayed strength and resilience in the face of adversity. We recently witnessed this after the attacks in Manchester and in the Westminster area of London. This time will be no different.

“These hateful acts do not deter us; they only strengthen our resolve. Canadians stand united with the British people. We will continue to work together with the United Kingdom and all our allies to fight terrorism and bring perpetrators to justice.

“The Government of Canada will not comment further at this time out of respect for the family.”
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2017, 15:20:18 »
I think one of the issues most people will gloss over is that PM May said they disrupted 5 "credible" attack plans since the Manchester attack.

If that is true, and each group had its own support structure, the claim that these violent beliefs reside in only a tiny (and heretical) portion of the islamic demographic becomes highly dubious.

I should add that when these guys act out specific instructions from the Qur'an (such as "strike them in the neck") it blows holes in the argument that they are the ones misinterpreting the holy books.

Bad situation.....
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2017, 16:01:49 »
Perhaps the only bit of good coming from this is the Britons who responded with the "United 93" defense, including a cabbie who tried to run down one attacker, and pub goers who fought an attacker with chairs, beer bottles and beer mugs.

Something to remember when this happens here; a pack of sheepdogs is very effective against a wolf.........
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2017, 16:39:48 »
If and when this starts happening in North America and specifically Canada  more frequently we won't handle it very well socially. When one soldier was shot and killed our army was essentially  ordered to hide.

The UK has considerable experience dealing with terror at home across a few generations. I don't know much about the FLQ crisis but I'd hazard a guess and say it's not comparable to the IRA.

Canadians would be too paralyzed with fear to go anywhere  if someone jacked a truck and took out 80 people at a July 1st part.  We'd be busy blaming Harper and Trudeau but wouldn't take suitable action against radical Islam.

Quote from: Cdn Blackshirt
.
violent beliefs reside in only a tiny (and heretical) portion of the islamic


I see and hear that a lot. When only 1% of a group are "bad apples" but that adds up to tens or hundreds of millions of people that's pretty dangerous.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2017, 17:02:50 »
If and when this starts happening in North America and specifically Canada  more frequently we won't handle it very well socially. When one soldier was shot and killed our army was essentially  ordered to hide.

The UK has considerable experience dealing with terror at home across a few generations. I don't know much about the FLQ crisis but I'd hazard a guess and say it's not comparable to the IRA.

Canadians would be too paralyzed with fear to go anywhere  if someone jacked a truck and took out 80 people at a July 1st part.  We'd be busy blaming Harper and Trudeau but wouldn't take suitable action against radical Islam.

I see and hear that a lot. When only 1% of a group are "bad apples" but that adds up to tens or hundreds of millions of people that's pretty dangerous.

Its unfortunately been a major part of British recent history. I've been raised by people that lived through the height of the IRA activity, who were raised by people who lived through the Blitz. Its a sad fact but its just my generation's 'trouble' that we will either have to crackdown on or just get on with.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2017, 17:13:09 »
Best Article Yet!

Quote
...In the aftermath of these attacks, most people seem to choose one of two camps: the “love will prevail” pep-talkers and the “wake up!” warriors. Am I alone in finding that neither resonates? I can no more fill my heart with love and talk about our unity than I can furiously denounce others for their lack of rage, declare the West’s impending doom or demand the election be postponed.

Denial or hysteria cannot be the only options. There is something in between. Of course daily life does not sail on unchanged when it’s punctuated by terrorist attacks. It carries on, but with a little more wariness and fear. And yet, nor am I convinced that Islamist terrorism, despite its horrors, poses an existential threat to our civilisation. I believe that Britain and its values are resilient and deeply rooted. I believe this not because of “love”, but because it is one of the lessons of our history.
 
We have certainly faced greater perils. At various points, would-be invaders or empire-building tyrants on the continent have threatened Britain’s security. We’ve had tyrants of our own, civil war and bloody religious strife. We’ve had periods of greater vigilance, such as during the threat of IRA bombs. We’ve lived with official advice, such as “how to survive an air raid”, as terrifying as the police’s latest mantra that the public ought to “run, hide, tell” during a terrorist attack....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/04/britains-democracy-hard-earned-should-look-history-tackle/

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2017, 18:16:48 »
Global, among other media outlets, have identifed the Canadian killed in the attacks as Christine (Chrissy) Archibald of B.C.
Condolences to family & friends, and hopes for a speedy recovery to all the wounded.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2017, 19:12:57 »
Pretty sad stuff to digest as a parent.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 19:16:22 by Jarnhamar »
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2017, 19:38:30 »
My condolences to all those affected by the terrorist attacks.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2017, 07:16:26 »
Aaaaannnd ....
Quote
#ISIS Includes #LondonAttacks Among Claimed Military Operations in its al-Bayan News Bulletin http://tinyurl.com/y7f7u47p *
* - Links to a subscription-only article by SITE Intel Group.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 12:26:37 by milnews.ca »
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2017, 11:49:58 »
With only a short time to go until  General Election, looking tough on Terrorism could help May.

Under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in NI, we could arrest and hold anyone for 4 hours on 'probable cause' for example. This was never used on the UK Mainland, but looks like it could be trotted out now. This is, of course, a double edged sword as a 'modification' of habeus corpus, accompanied by a dragnet extended across whole communities could pull in thousands of 'suspects', all of whom will be 'dark skinned' and many of whom will be under 30 and completely innocent and, thus, potentially primed for increased radicalization e.g., Operation Demetrius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius:

Theresa May responds to London Bridge attack with anti-terror laws promise

Prime minister accused of politicising atrocity as she says there has been ‘far too much tolerance of extremism’

May is expected to introduce control orders for terror suspects. Iain Duncan Smith, a former Tory work and pensions secretary, told The World this Weekend that she would probably try to toughen up terrorism, prevention and investigation measures, known as Tpims.

These are the measures introduced by the coalition to place restrictions on people who are suspected of being terrorists but who have not been convicted of an offence.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/london-bridge-attack-pushes-theresa-may-into-promising-new-laws
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2017, 12:34:13 »
A quick round-up by the New Jersey Office of Homeland Security & Preparedness (which regularly shares all sorts of open-source analysis of regional, national and international developments here) - also attached if link doesn't work - with a "look back" chart:

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2017, 13:58:54 »
And then there were the professionals - now in Parliament

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-bombings-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516


Quote
Here is a timeline of some of the worst bomb attacks on mainland Britain by Irish dissident groups in the last 35 years.

February 1974 - Coach carrying soldiers and families in northern England is bombed by the Irish Republican Army (IRA). Twelve people killed, 14 hurt.

October-November 1974 - Wave of IRA bombs in British pubs kills 28 people and wounds more than 200.

July 1982 - Two IRA bomb attacks on soldiers in London's royal parks kill 11 people and wound 50.

December 1983 - IRA bomb at Harrods department store kills six.

October 1984 - Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's cabinet narrowly escapes IRA bomb that kills five people at Brighton hotel during Conservative Party's annual conference.

September 1989 - Bomb at Royal Marines Music School in Deal, southeast England, kills 11 and wounds 22.

February 1990 - Explosion at Army recruitment centre in Leicester. Two wounded.

May 1990 - Seven wounded by blast at Army Educational Service headquarters in London suburb of Eltham.

May 1990 - One soldier is killed and another wounded by car bomb in Wembley.

June 1990 - Soldier is shot dead at train station in Lichfield.

February 1991 - IRA comes close to killing Prime Minister John Major and key cabinet members in a mortar attack on Downing Street. One of three mortar bombs slammed into garden behind building, exploding within 50 feet (15 metres) of the target.

April 1992 - Huge car bomb outside Baltic Exchange in London's financial district kills three people and wounds 91.

March 1993 - Bombs in two litter bins in Warrington kill two boys aged three and 12.

April 1993 - IRA truck bomb devastates Bishopsgate area of London's financial district, killing one and wounding 44.

February 1996 - Two people die when IRA paramilitaries detonate large bomb in London's Docklands area.

March 2001 - Car bomb explodes outside BBC's London headquarters. Police say the Real IRA, a republican splinter group opposed to the IRA's cease-fire, was behind the blast. One man was wounded.

May 2011 - A warning comes from Irish dissident republicans opposed to the peace process in Northern Ireland.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2017, 16:33:18 »
And then there were the professionals - now in Parliament

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-bombings-idUKTRE74F31Q20110516
On the other hand, to show how time & choosing different ways to handle things works out, BBC Ulster airs weekly comedy podcasts ("The Blame Game" and "A Perforated Ulster"), recorded in front of live audiences, that throw a few related zingers in there from time to time. 

One joke during an issue with a historic clock that stopped in Belfast, one comedian said, "If the politician complaining was Sinn Fein, there's no way he didn't know someone who knew something about timers."  Another more recent one-liner:  How can you tell Batman must be IRA?  He wears a mask and has a a second name.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2017, 19:09:04 »
Quote from: Jarnhamar
.

Any bets on if the attackers were 'known to the police' or had suspicious neighbours afraid to speak up?



https://www.rt.com/uk/391020-jihadi-documentary-terrorists-london/

Known to the police AND appeared on a documentary 'The Jihadist Next Door’   ::)

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2017, 20:09:18 »
Plenty of concerned friends and neighbors called in to the CT hotline but t5here was never any follow up. Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2017, 20:28:48 »
... Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.
Reminder:  Tories in power since May 2010 (but in a minority position all the way thru, with Labour coming in second place re:  # of seats in both 2010 and 2015).

This from Metro Police - highlights mine:
Quote
Monday, 5 June at 21:55hrs (1655 Eastern)

Specialist officers are working with families of victims and the Coroner to identify those who were killed in Saturday's attack at the appropriate time.

Family liaison officers have now deployed into all those families where we believe people to be dead.

Family liaison officers have also been deployed to support one family where we believe one person is still missing.

All of the people arrested on Sunday, 4 June, as part of this investigation have now been released without charge.

( ... )

Monday, 5 June at 18:00hrs (1300 Eastern)

The Met’s Counter Terrorism Command has released the names and photographs of two men shot dead by police following the terrorist attack on London Bridge and Borough Market on Saturday, 3 June.

While formal identification has yet to take place, detectives believe they now know the attackers’ identities. They believe two of the men are Khuram Shazad Butt and Rachid Redouane, both from Barking, east London.

All three men were confronted and shot dead by armed officers within eight minutes of the first call.


Khuram Shazad Butt, 27, (20.4.90), was a British citizen who was born in Pakistan. Rachid Redouane, 30 (31.7.86) had claimed to be Moroccan and Libyan. He also used the name Rachid Elkhdar, with a different date of birth of 31.7.91. Inquiries are ongoing to confirm the identity of their accomplice.

Detectives would like to hear from anyone who has any information about these men that may assist them with the investigation. They are particularly keen to hear about places they may have frequented and their movements in the days and hours before the attack.

At 22.08hrs on Saturday, 3 June, a hired white Renault van travelled north to south on London Bridge and mounted the pavement, which collided with pedestrians before they abandoned the vehicle.

The three attackers, armed with knives, continued into the Borough Market area, stabbing numerous people. The attackers were then confronted by the firearms officers and eight police firearms officers discharged their weapons.

Seven people were killed. Work to inform the next of kin of the victims is ongoing. This is taking time because we believe some of the victims are from abroad. Of the 48 people taken to hospital, 36 are currently being cared for in London hospitals with 18 remaining in a critical condition.

The investigation into this horrific attack is fast moving and complex as we piece together a fuller picture of what occurred. So far officers have arrested 12 people – seven women and five men - and searched six properties (four on Sunday and a further two properties today). One of the arrested men and one of the women were subsequently released.


Counter terrorism partners have dedicated intensive effort to developing and improving our counter terrorism response over recent years, as the threat has changed. The more we know, the greater the chance when an attack does happen we will have some information about at least one perpetrator. Our work necessarily involves making difficult judgements about how to prioritise the resources available to us at a time when the UK is facing a SEVERE and high tempo terrorist threat.

There are 500 current terrorism investigations, involving 3,000 current subjects of interest. A small number of the highest priority investigations involve current attack planning, and these investigations command a significant proportion of our resource. The remainder of our investigations focus on other activities relating to active support or facilitation of terrorism.

Khuram Shazad Butt was known to the police and MI5. However, there was no intelligence to suggest that this attack was being planned and the investigation had been prioritised accordingly. The other named man, Rachid Redouane, was not known.

Work is ongoing to understand more about them, their connections and whether they were assisted or supported by anyone else. We cannot say more about them at this stage.

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said: “I would urge anyone with information about these men, their movements in the days and hours before the attack and the places they frequented to come forward.

“The police and our partners are doing everything we can across the country to help prevent further attacks and protect the public from harm.

“At any one time MI5 and police are conducting around 500 active investigations, involving 3,000 subjects of interest. Additionally, there are around 20,000 individuals who are former subjects of interest, whose risk remains subject to review by MI5 and its partners.

“The security and intelligence services and police have stopped 18 plots since 2013, including five since the Westminster attack two months ago.”

He added: “We would urge the public to be vigilant and to report any suspicious activity to the police by calling us in confidence on 0800 789321 or in an emergency calling 999.”

(...)
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2017, 23:00:55 »
Quote
Khuram Shazad Butt was known to the police and MI5. However, there was no intelligence to suggest that this attack was being planned


I don't know, I'm not a cop but if someone was appearing on "the Jihadist Next door" I'd assume he was planning an attack. Unless I'm using the wrong definition of jihad.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2017, 06:31:37 »
Quote
Khuram Shazad Butt was known to the police and MI5. However, there was no intelligence to suggest that this attack was being planned
I don't know, I'm not a cop but if someone was appearing on "the Jihadist Next door" I'd assume he was planning an attack. Unless I'm using the wrong definition of jihad.
Right after the sentence you quoted, it said "the investigation had been prioritised accordingly."  Need for more investigative resources?  Fair question to ask - and I think it's going to get asked a LOT in the next while.  But if you only have what you have and need to pick/choose which cases (out of the 20K folks of some level of interest) require further digging, there's not much else one can do if there was nothing suggesting any planning.

The nitpicker in me notes the police choose to use the word "intelligence" rather than "evidence".  Does that mean if there was "evidence" (as in court standard), they might have been able to do more beforehand?  NOT second guessing the cops by any means, but wondering about the wording/process.
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2017, 10:37:32 »
And the third one's been ID'ed - this from Metro Police ...
Quote
Tuesday, 6 June at 11:40hrs (0640 Eastern)

The Met's Counter Terrorism Command has released the name and photograph of the third attacker shot dead by police following the terrorist attacks on London Bridge and at Borough Market on Saturday.

While formal identification is yet to take place, detectives believe he is 22-year-old Youssef Zaghba, from east London. The deceased's family have been informed.

He is believed to be an Italian national of Moroccan descent. He was not a police or MI5 subject of interest.

All three men involved in the attack were confronted and shot dead by armed officers within eight minutes of the first call.

The other two were named yesterday (Monday, 5 June) by detectives as:

Khuram Shazad Butt, 27 (20.4.90), from Barking, was a British citizen who was born in Pakistan; and

Rachid Redouane, 30 (31.7.86), from Barking, had claimed to be Moroccan and Libyan. He also used the name Rachid Elkhdar, with a different date of birth of 31.7.91.

Detectives would like to hear from anyone who has any information about these men that may assist them with the investigation. They are particularly keen to hear about places they may have frequented and their movements in the days and hours before the attacks.

Detectives have also arrested a man at an address in Barking this morning, Tuesday, 6 June.

[M], a 27-year-old man, was arrested under the Terrorism Act at approximately 08.05hrs today.


A search warrant is being executed at an address in Barking.

Enquiries ongoing ...
Metro Police image attached -- (L-R) Khuram Shazad Butt, Rachid Redouane and Youssef Zaghba
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2017, 11:35:53 »
Plenty of concerned friends and neighbors called in to the CT hotline but t5here was never any follow up. Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.

An amazing number of people will use these hotlines to 'get back' at people they don't like. The police, therefore, take ages sorting wheat from chaff ....
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2017, 11:47:44 »
An amazing number of people will use these hotlines to 'get back' at people they don't like. The police, therefore, take ages sorting wheat from chaff ....
In addition to the calls apparently being made 5-, 3-, and 1-year prior, the closest I could get to 'plenty' is one Italian-named woman and "an anonymous person claimed he called the CT line..."

It's always easier in hindsight. 

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2017, 13:07:17 »
for those unaware the way Armed Police works in the UK

Unless and until ALL police are armed, then it doesn't "work".

The unarmed Bobby was a nice concept, sadly now undated. Failure to adapt to current times leads to death, injury, and grieving. It is unbelievably naive and inexcusable.

There are clips on Youtube showing unarmed police running ahead of pursuing mobs yelling "Allahu Akbar" and "Run, cowards". Want to encourage these people? Show weakness liberally sprinkled with stupidity due to unreasonable adherence to tradition and hoplophobia.

Arm all police. Authorize them to carry their pistols concealed while off-duty. That is a small first step.

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2017, 19:42:46 »
Plenty of concerned friends and neighbors called in to the CT hotline but t5here was never any follow up. Maybe a new broom will get elected Thursday.

Be careful what you wish for: If Corbyn gets elected he has promised to get rid of the whole UK CT Strategy.
Years ago, fairy tales all began with, "Once upon a time." Now we know they all began with, "If I'm elected."

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2017, 23:03:43 »
Arm all police. Authorize them to carry their pistols concealed while off-duty. That is a small first step.

Not so small when you realize the deterrent effect of all police being armed (as in Northern Ireland) vs. Jihad Johnnie knowing that he has about 10 minutes to chop people up before the gunslingers stand to.

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Dimsum

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2017, 00:08:20 »
Wonder if this man will end up getting a commendation/medal?

Quote
Football fan shouted 'F*** you, I’m Millwall' and took on knife-wielding terrorists with his bare fists

Calls for Roy Larner, the 'Lion of London Bridge', to be given a medal after reportedly saving lives and making Millwall fans popular by single-handedly taking on the three attackers

A football fan reportedly yelled “F**k you, I’m Millwall” as he single-handedly took on the three knife-wielding London terror attackers armed with nothing more than his fists.
Roy Larner has already been hailed a hero, with a petition launched for him to be awarded the George Cross medal for his actions in the Black and Blue steakhouse on Saturday night.
In fighting back, the 47-year-old Millwall fan gave dozens of others who were in the Borough Market restaurant the chance to escape.

Now out of the intensive care ward of St Thomas’ Hospital, where he was treated for knife wounds all over his body including his neck, the father-of-one has told The Sun how he reacted when the killers burst into the restaurant shouting “Islam, Islam” and “This is for Allah”.
“Like an idiot,” he told the newspaper, “I shouted back at them. I thought, ‘I need to take the p*** out of these b******s’.”

“I took a few steps towards them and said, ‘F*** you, I’m Millwall’. So they started attacking me.”
Mr Larner added: “I stood in front of them trying to fight them off. Everyone else ran to the back.

“I was on my own against all three of them, that’s why I got hurt so much.
“It was just me, trying to grab them with my bare hands and hold on. I was swinging.

“I got stabbed and sliced eight times. They got me in my head, chest and both hands. There was blood everywhere.
“They were saying, ‘Islam, Islam!’. I said again, ‘F*** you, I’m Millwall!’

“It was the worst thing I could have done as they carried on attacking me.
“Luckily, none of the blows were straight at me or I’d be dead.”

Mr Larner’s actions have won him a huge following on social media, where he has been called “The Lion of London Bridge”, a reference to Millwall Football Club’s nickname the Lions.

Fans of the south London club have long prided themselves on their refusal to duck a fight, celebrating their intimidating reputation with the chant: “No-one likes us, we don’t care.”
Mr Larner’s bravery, however, seems suddenly to have made Millwall fans popular.
On Good Morning Brtitain, presenter Piers Morgan, a fan of rival London club Arsenal, told viewers: “Millwall fans get a very bad rap, a lot of it very deserved, but there are times when you really want a lot of Millwall fans, and that was one of them.”

Mr Larner has certainly made his mother proud.

Phyllis Larner, 78, told The Sun: “He’s fearless, my son. He’ll give as good as he gets.
“He’s quite nippy and lippy and wouldn’t back down from a fight.

“He wouldn’t care who it was or if they had a knife or gun.”

Mr Larner, from Peckham, south-east London, said the attackers eventually “ran out of the pub and legged it”.
Despite his injuries, he said he followed them outside.

“It wasn’t until I was in a police car,” said Mr Larner, “That I realised I was in a bad way. I’d been sliced up all over.”

“I didn’t think of my safety at the time,” he added. “I’d had four or five pints — nothing major.
“I can handle myself. But I was out with an old person and it was out of order.”

As he recovers in hospital, Mr Larner’s friends have brought him a running magazine.  The front cover headline reads: “Learn to run.”

Millwall Football Club have also praised the supporter for his “immense bravery”.  “Millwall Football Club wishes to commend Roy Larner for his immense bravery in incredibly terrifying circumstances, and indeed all other members of the public whose actions helped to save others” a club spokesman told the Independent.



http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/football-fan-shouted-f-you-im-millwall-and-took-on-knifewielding-terrorists-with-his-bare-fists-35795151.html
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2017, 01:33:11 »
Love the bit about the magazine.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2017, 22:31:55 »
And that's why the Brits field great infantry......always up for a bit aggro.  Now if it had been Arsenal....  Or better yet Hotspur...
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 22:36:31 by Chris Pook »
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2017, 01:23:04 »
And that's why the Brits field great infantry......always up for a bit aggro.  Now if it had been Arsenal....  Or better yet Hotspur...

Ahem..."Spurs", and West Ham fans regularly kick crap out of Milwall fans.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2017, 15:15:59 »
Ahem..."Spurs", and West Ham fans regularly kick crap out of Milwall fans.

Yeah, but you have to admit the thought of them being tackled by a "Yid" is intriguing.  >:D

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/10908591/Yid-chanting-by-Tottenham-Hotspur-fans-no-longer-an-arrestable-offence-at-White-Hart-Lane-says-Metropolitan-Police.html
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Re: 3 Jun 2017: Vehicle Hits Pedestrians on London Bridge
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2017, 13:06:50 »
Another arrest - this from Metro Police:
Quote
... Detectives investigating the London Bridge terror attack carried out a warrant, and made a further arrest in east London this evening, Sunday, 11 June.

At 21:50hrs officers from the Met's Counter Terrorism Command, supported by the Territorial Support Group, arrested a 19-year-old man [ U ] at an address in Barking.

He was arrested on suspicion of being concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000.

He has been taken into custody at a south London police station and is detained under the Terrorism Act.

Searches of a residential address in Barking are ongoing.

Six other men remain in custody.

A 28-year-old man [T] was arrested at 02:05hrs on 10 June at a residential address in Barking. He has been taken into custody at a police station in Berkshire and is detained under the Terrorism Act. Searches of the residential address in Barking are ongoing.

A 27-year-old man [ O ] was arrested on a street in Ilford under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) at around 22.00hrs on 5 June. He is now being held under terrorism legislation.

A 29-year-old man [Q] was arrested at an address in Ilford on 5 June under PACE. He is now being held under terrorism legislation.

A 30-year-old man [N] was arrested at an address in Ilford on suspicion of the preparation of terrorist acts, contrary to section 5 of the Terrorism Act 2006, at approximately 01.30hrs on 7 June. He also remains in police custody.

A 29-year-old man [R] was arrested at an address in Newham on suspicion of being concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, at approximately 01:15hrs on 9 June. He also remains in custody.

A 27-year-old man [ S ] was arrested at a residential address in Ilford n suspicion of being concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, at 20:36hrs on 9 June. He also remains in custody ...
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