Author Topic: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"  (Read 60455 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #325 on: December 19, 2017, 17:00:55 »
Quote
"Collecting intelligence is illegal from an open-source domain for the Canadian Armed Forces, according to a regulation established in 2014," he said.

What regulation is this one, exactly?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #326 on: December 19, 2017, 17:10:18 »
Quote
"The Armed Forces are about integration, diversity, freedom of speech, freedom of culture, freedom of religion, freedom of sexual orientation,"

  ::)

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Online MARS

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #327 on: December 19, 2017, 17:41:21 »
What regulation is this one, exactly?

Perhaps this one...
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/AnnualStatutes/2014_17/

It appears to be the only 2014 update remotely related to his comments, but I still don't see what he means.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 17:44:58 by MARS »
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #328 on: December 19, 2017, 19:42:51 »
  ::)

Why the eye roll? The CAF should absolutely stand for all of those things for two reasons- first, our society does and we represent them not vice versa. Second, we want the best soldiers and that includes all those groups.

Offline Strike

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #329 on: December 20, 2017, 08:58:18 »
Quote
He said soldiers who want to take part in a political, social or networking group need to ask permission from the Force's director of ethics, who in turn acts on his recommendation.

This is something new to me...
Stop assuming I'm a man!

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #330 on: December 20, 2017, 10:37:31 »
Why the eye roll? The CAF should absolutely stand for all of those things for two reasons- first, our society does and we represent them not vice versa. Second, we want the best soldiers and that includes all those groups.

-It sounded like a typical canned response to me.
-As an organization we may fight FOR freedom of speech but I don't see our members enjoying it all that much (see Strikes post).  I'm quite confident I'll be published for "liking" the wrong thing on Facebook.
-I find it hypocritical that we'll condemn or investigate members for belonging to these groups  (as dumb as they are I find personally) yet give a free pass to a religion who's teachings drastically conflict the whole freedom of culture, sexual orientation, diversity stuff.

In hindsight Im surprised and impressed by how the CAF is handling this.

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #331 on: December 20, 2017, 19:23:56 »
History, including modern, is replete with organizations that were outlawed because of government bias. Masons and Knight Templar come to mind. Even today, Masons are penalized and outcast in some societies. Leaving the government to decide who you can and cannot associate with is dangerous.

And whoever decided that being, Canadian, white, proud and patriotic is some sort of plague that people can't voice an opinion about.
Diversity includes adverse opinions, or it is not diversity.
Inclusive includes adverse opinions, or is not inclusive.

Offline whiskey601

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #332 on: December 20, 2017, 23:04:37 »
And whoever decided that being, Canadian, white, proud and patriotic is some sort of plague that people can't voice an opinion about.
Constance Backhouse ( the Honourable). And Rosie Abella. And Justin Trudeau. And many boot licking cuck generals, police chiefs, etc.
People want to talk about powerless and semi stateless. Talk to a white blue collar man of any age in this country. #truthisevil

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #333 on: December 20, 2017, 23:39:09 »
Constance Backhouse ( the Honourable). And Rosie Abella. And Justin Trudeau. And many boot licking cuck generals, police chiefs, etc.
People want to talk about powerless and semi stateless. Talk to a white blue collar man of any age in this country. #truthisevil

A quick read of my political posts will leave no doubt about where I stand on those.
Diversity includes adverse opinions, or it is not diversity.
Inclusive includes adverse opinions, or is not inclusive.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #334 on: December 21, 2017, 00:50:49 »
The real issue is who, exactly, is defining what is a "radical" group? As we see in a different context, Laurier University allowed a Maoist "Struggle Session" to be undertaken against TA Lindsey Shepherd because she failed to "denounce" Professor Jordan Peterson prior to showing a 2 minute clip of him debating another person on a TVO show. Now imagine people with this mindset looking at who you associate with or what you say or do.....

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-thought-police-strike-again-as-wilfrid-laurier-grad-student-is-chastised-for-showing-jordan-peterson-video

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-investigators-report-into-wilfrid-laurier-universit-vindicates-lindsay-shepherd
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline whiskey601

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #335 on: December 21, 2017, 09:00:25 »
A quick read of my political posts will leave no doubt about where I stand on those.

I don't have to do that. I met you once.  I think the only thing I didn't agree on was what you were drinking, which appeared to be some sort of old tank engine oil  :cheers:

Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #336 on: December 21, 2017, 12:17:44 »
History, including modern, is replete with organizations that were outlawed because of government bias. Masons and Knight Templar come to mind. Even today, Masons are penalized and outcast in some societies. Leaving the government to decide who you can and cannot associate with is dangerous.

And whoever decided that being, Canadian, white, proud and patriotic is some sort of plague that people can't voice an opinion about.

I dont think that anyone is saying that you can't be "Canadian, white, proud, and patriotic" what I think they're saying is that if you want to be a member of le meute do so outside of the CAF. The CAF, after all, isn't a right- like any other employer.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #337 on: December 21, 2017, 12:24:09 »
Freedom of association.  No?
The only time you have *too much gas* is when you're on fire.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #338 on: December 21, 2017, 12:45:49 »
Freedom of association.  No?

Also guilt by association.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline mariomike

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #339 on: December 21, 2017, 12:55:42 »
"An investigation by Radio-Canada found about 75 members of La Meute's private Facebook group are part of the Armed Forces, with some visibly identified by their military uniform."

Regarding Facebook, if applying to certain employers,

"Oakville ( ON ) resident Rob MacLeod had breezed through the early stages of the interview process and become a finalist for a police job when he was lobbed a question he hadn’t anticipated:

What is your Facebook password?"
https://www.thestar.com/business/2012/03/20/would_you_reveal_your_facebook_password_for_a_job.html

"So when the request came, MacLeod offered to log in to his Facebook account and then leave the room so the interviewer could browse his page.

But he says the interviewer remained firm — he wanted the password. After a few minutes, MacLeod gave it to him."

I've also heard of some emergency services interviewers asking applicants to "friend" them on Facebook.




« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 12:59:58 by mariomike »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #340 on: December 21, 2017, 13:25:20 »
I dont think that anyone is saying that you can't be "Canadian, white, proud, and patriotic" what I think they're saying is that if you want to be a member of le meute do so outside of the CAF. The CAF, after all, isn't a right- like any other employer.

What happens if you start posting that you're a patriotic proud white Canadian?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #341 on: December 21, 2017, 14:07:23 »
What happens if you start posting that you're a patriotic proud white Canadian?

hey, no one likes a xenophobe man!!  not cool!!  you should be discharged for that!   ;D
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #342 on: December 21, 2017, 14:37:06 »
you're a patriotic proud white Canadian?

You must be the last one! Good on you, you have now also achieved being special in your membership of a single individual category.   ;D

And when every body is special ... then nobody will be. (dixit Syndrome, in "The Incredibles").

Offline Journeyman

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #343 on: December 21, 2017, 17:20:24 »
What happens if you start posting that you're a patriotic proud white Canadian?
I happen to be all four of those adjectives;  I just never felt a need to make posts about it, wear a t-shirt proclaiming it, or hassle other people for lacking those attributes.

   :dunno:

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #344 on: December 21, 2017, 17:22:25 »
...or that any of them need to be intrinsically linked.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 17:39:01 by Infanteer »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #345 on: December 21, 2017, 17:29:13 »
hey, no one likes a xenophobe man!!  not cool!!  you should be discharged for that!   ;D

Holy crap I didn't mean me. Don't send the GBA QRF!  I think it's silly to be proud of your race because you have absolutely no control over it. 

I'm saying if someone  started posting they're proud of being white you better believe people will label them a racist. It's a double standard.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #346 on: December 21, 2017, 17:35:25 »
I happen to be all four of those adjectives;  I just never felt a need to make posts about it, wear a t-shirt proclaiming it, or hassle other people for lacking those attributes.

   :dunno:

Hummmmm, no Canadian flags or maple leaf tattoos? Truly?    ;D
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #347 on: December 21, 2017, 21:34:14 »
"An investigation by Radio-Canada found about 75 members of La Meute's private Facebook group are part of the Armed Forces, with some visibly identified by their military uniform."

Regarding Facebook, if applying to certain employers,

"Oakville ( ON ) resident Rob MacLeod had breezed through the early stages of the interview process and become a finalist for a police job when he was lobbed a question he hadn’t anticipated:

What is your Facebook password?"
https://www.thestar.com/business/2012/03/20/would_you_reveal_your_facebook_password_for_a_job.html

"So when the request came, MacLeod offered to log in to his Facebook account and then leave the room so the interviewer could browse his page.

But he says the interviewer remained firm — he wanted the password. After a few minutes, MacLeod gave it to him."

I've also heard of some emergency services interviewers asking applicants to "friend" them on Facebook.

I'm a bit dubious about the legality of asking for a password on a personal, non work account, or for having anyone demand you "friend" them as a condition of employment. Since I don't partake of social media like Facebook, I don't have to worry too much, but I'd certainly change the password immediately upon leaving the interview, and use whatever minimalistic security features exist on FB if someone demanded to be placed on my page to isolate them as much as possible were that to be the case.

I have no illusions that anything done on a work computer cam be monitored, and social media is open enough that anyone can "drop in" and view your page at will without being a friend or having your password, so if you choose to be stupid (i.e. posting your amazing rock climbing adventure on the same day you called in sick to work) then you will bear the consequences.

WRT freedom of speech, if you are willing to say something, then you should also have the arguments to back it up. If you disagree with something, then you also should have the arguments to refute the issue in dispute. London's Mayor Matt Brown used the opposite approach by essentially calling out a mob to shout down a Free Speech rally in London, which was cowardly (he didn't have the arguments to refute the free speechers), and stupid (now the bar is lowered, what happens when a mob decides they don't like what Matt Brown is saying?).

This should also be true for employment. Obviously shilling for a competitor or saying or doing something to hurt your company's reputation (narrowly defined) is wrong, and should get you fired, but political speech outside of the workplace isn't one of those areas IMO. The CF and Public Service is the one exception where political speech is exempt, since we work for the Government. If we disagree with Government policy, we are always free to resign and speak publicly as citizens.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline mariomike

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #348 on: December 21, 2017, 21:45:24 »
I'm a bit dubious about the legality of asking for a password on a personal, non work account, or for having anyone demand you "friend" them as a condition of employment.

"There are currently no laws in Ontario prohibiting employers from asking job candidates for Facebook passwords."
https://www.thestar.com/business/2012/03/20/would_you_reveal_your_facebook_password_for_a_job.html

It's just a municipal job interview. You don't have  to give them your password, or "friend" them.

And they don't have to offer you a job either.  :)

The CF and Public Service is the one exception where political speech is exempt, since we work for the Government.

If you do get the job, you can get involved in federal and provincial campaign activities. ( When off-duty and not in uniform. ) But, not elections for the municipal government you are employed by.


If we disagree with Government policy, we are always free to resign and speak publicly as citizens.

 :goodpost:

"If you work for a man, in heaven's name work for him, speak well of him, and stand by the institution he represents. Remember, an ounce of loyalty is worth a pound of cleverness. If you must growl, condemn, and eternally find fault - resign your position, and when you are outside, damn to your heart's content - but as long as you are part of the institution, do not condemn it. If you do, the first high wind that comes along will blow you away, and probably you will never know why."

E. Hubbard
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 22:14:18 by mariomike »

Offline Brihard

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Re: "Canadian Forces warns members affiliated with radical groups"
« Reply #349 on: December 21, 2017, 22:29:10 »
I'm a bit dubious about the legality of asking for a password on a personal, non work account, or for having anyone demand you "friend" them as a condition of employment. Since I don't partake of social media like Facebook, I don't have to worry too much, but I'd certainly change the password immediately upon leaving the interview, and use whatever minimalistic security features exist on FB if someone demanded to be placed on my page to isolate them as much as possible were that to be the case.

Police services are able to justify a lot in the context of determining reliability and suitability. There are unique demands and expectations applied to police officers by virtue of their need to retain their credibility in all manners of enforcing the law and protecting the public as well as abiding by their responsibility as agents of the state to respect rights of individuals and groups.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.