Author Topic: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax  (Read 21570 times)

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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #175 on: July 08, 2017, 10:28:37 »
It appears that the proud boys are more inclusive to gays than the Catholic Church and Islam.

Ah, good.  Yes, missed that point.  No issue with that.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline The Baron

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #176 on: July 08, 2017, 16:23:48 »
I think you can apply that logic to all organizations, religions, societies, etc.  No one is exempt.

The majority don't act in quite the same provocative fashion though, with a "leader" deliberately stirring the pot wherever and whenever he can.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #177 on: July 08, 2017, 16:29:14 »
The majority don't act in quite the same provocative fashion though, with a "leader" deliberately stirring the pot wherever and whenever he can.

Hmmmm?  I don't know about that.  We have just witness a few leaders really "stirring the pot" in the past couple weeks.  Some recognize it.  Some people just ignore it, or accept it as part of their "leader's" position to do so.  Leaders quite often stir their followers on to do their bidding.
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Offline The Baron

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #178 on: July 08, 2017, 17:23:24 »
Hmmmm?  I don't know about that.  We have just witness a few leaders really "stirring the pot" in the past couple weeks.  Some recognize it.  Some people just ignore it, or accept it as part of their "leader's" position to do so.  Leaders quite often stir their followers on to do their bidding.

Really like who? I haven't seen any local legion halls, Shriners, Masons, Scout/Guide/St. John Ambulance Groups, Church/Mosque/Temple groups, YM/WCA groups, Rotary, Lions, etc. etc. (you see where I am going with this), making ANY news outside perhaps a local/community newspaper.

I think you can apply that logic to all organizations, religions, societies, etc.  No one is exempt.

Perhaps don't take half a quote, and reply to it out of context.

Go away for 2 years and things are still the same around here.
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Offline gryphonv

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #179 on: July 08, 2017, 17:29:20 »
Really like who? I haven't seen any local legion halls, Shriners, Masons, Scout/Guide/St. John Ambulance Groups, Church/Mosque/Temple groups, YM/WCA groups, Rotary, Lions, etc. etc. (you see where I am going with this), making ANY news outside perhaps a local/community newspaper.



See that is where this should of ended. This incident should of never made it past the local/community newspaper.

The proverbial 'mountain out of a molehill' applies here perfectly.

The ball of crap from this kept growing and could of been stopped at many levels before certain politicians decided to speak on it, making it national.

The 'damage control' from this has only empowered a very vocal minority.

 

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #180 on: July 08, 2017, 17:43:26 »
See that is where this should of ended. This incident should of never made it past the local/community newspaper.

The proverbial 'mountain out of a molehill' applies here perfectly.

The ball of crap from this kept growing and could of been stopped at many levels before certain politicians decided to speak on it, making it national.

The 'damage control' from this has only empowered a very vocal minority.

Possibly, however it still won't negate that the DAODs (likely) werent followed.  The DAOD's don't list exemptions either so I suspect there are probably quite a number of people who participate in those other community organizations who aren't in compliance either. Again (not that I like the thought), the DAOD's are pretty clear, and if the higher echelons are intent on making an example (which seems likely), that is the ammo they will use.

Common sense should also tell people, if a group is attracting controversy (rightly or wrongly), you are playing with fire, if you get involved with them.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #181 on: July 08, 2017, 18:02:51 »
Perhaps don't take half a quote, and reply to it out of context.

Just perhaps, that was the only part of a rant that I felt like replying to with that answer.  Nothing nefarious there.

Go away for 2 years and things are still the same around here.

I can guess what you are insinuating, but I will let you clear the air. 
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Offline gryphonv

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #182 on: July 08, 2017, 18:07:58 »
Possibly, however it still won't negate that the DAODs (likely) werent followed.  The DAOD's don't list exemptions either so I suspect there are probably quite a number of people who participate in those other community organizations who aren't in compliance either. Again (not that I like the thought), the DAOD's are pretty clear, and if the higher echelons are intent on making an example (which seems likely), that is the ammo they will use.

Common sense should also tell people, if a group is attracting controversy (rightly or wrongly), you are playing with fire, if you get involved with them.

I agree, there are many groups that participation in runs afoul of the DAODs, some of them are given a pass though.

Look at BLM and Gay Pride, to name a couple. Both are very political, both have many active military who are members. Hell even the  Mi'kmaq/Mi'gmaq protesters from that day have active military members in their group(one of the protesters facebook profile lists themselves as a RMC grad).

The problem that I see will arise from this, and if it actually goes to trial. Is a lawyer could argue that the DAODs are only applied when its convenient to do so.

I feel the most valid point made earlier was to do with our political climate. We have a party in power that is pro social justice. Our PM has embraced that side of the political spectrum to run a very successful campaign as they felt they were largely ignored during the Conservatives Government. It's really not unlike what happened with Trump in the US. Both applied their msg to a group who felt they were under attack from a government in power. 

On a side note, I find it hilarious that some of the 'Grizzly Mamma' supporters are now asking for financial compensation from the CAF. So far it is only posts on a facebook page, but that is how this all started was posts on a facebook page. It's going to be interesting to see if some SJW Lawyer picks this up and runs with it.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 19:10:14 by gryphonv »

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #183 on: July 08, 2017, 19:00:16 »
Why not?  it worked for Omar.....
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #184 on: July 08, 2017, 19:07:34 »
Why not?  it worked for Omar.....

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #185 on: July 08, 2017, 21:43:32 »
Quote from: gryphonv


On a side note, I find it hilarious that some of the 'Grizzly Mamma' supporters are now asking for financial compensation from the CAF. 

pavlov's law law of temporal contiguity.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 22:00:02 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Private_John_Winger

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #186 on: July 08, 2017, 22:40:02 »
Surprised no one has posted or mentioned these....

QR&O
19.14 - IMPROPER COMMENTS

(1) No officer or non-commissioned member shall make remarks or pass criticism tending to bring a superior into contempt, except as may be necessary for the proper presentation of a grievance under Chapter 7 (Grievances).

(2) No officer or non-commissioned member shall do or say anything that:

if seen or heard by any member of the public, might reflect discredit on the Canadian Forces or on any of its members
; or
if seen by, heard by or reported to those under him, might discourage them or render them dissatisfied with their condition or the duties on which they are employed.

DAOD 7021-1, Conflict of Interest (relevant sections, its long)

outside activity (activité extérieure)

Any employment, political or charitable activity, whether remunerated or not, that is conducted outside the official working hours of a DND employee or the authorized hours of duty or service of a CAF member.

Requirement

3.2 All DND employees and CAF members must conform to the following principles in their public roles as well as in their outside activities

Outside Activities   
Only pursuing an outside activity that does not create a COI or a potential for adverse public perception, and that does not otherwise contravene a federal, provincial or territorial act or regulation, or a DND or CAF directive, order or policy.

Participation in Public Events

Not identifying oneself as a DND employee or CAF member when participating in public events held by for-profit or non-profit entities without the prior written consent of the DM or the CDS or their delegates, as applicable, except in the course of the official duties of the DND employee or CAF member.
Note – During participation in public events, DND employees and CAF members must remain aware of their obligation of loyalty to the GC. Also, QR&O articles 19.14, Improper Comments, and 19.36, Disclosure of Information or Opinion, have application to the comments and disclosures of CAF members during their participation.

Social Media and the Internet   
Remaining aware of their obligation of loyalty to the GC and remaining particularly sensitive to COI or the potential for adverse public perception that may arise from the creation, sharing or discussion of information on social media and other Internet sites.

Limitations on Civil Employment or Undertakings

4.1 QR&O article 19.42, Civil Employment, sets out limitations on the civil employment or undertakings of a CAF member who is on full-time service. To ensure any proposed civil employment or undertaking is not contrary to this article, a CAF member must submit a completed form DND 2839-E, Confidential Report, to their commanding officer (CO), requesting permission to engage in the civil employment or undertaking.

Note – A member of the Regular Force is on full-time service at all times, and a member of the Reserve Force is on full-time service when on Class “B” or Class “C” Reserve Service, in accordance with QR&O Chapter 9, Reserve Service.

Factors for a CO to Consider

4.2 When reviewing a form DND 2839-E submitted under paragraph 4.1 by a CAF member, a CO should take into consideration the following:

whether the proposed civil employment or undertaking will only occur during approved leave or outside the authorized hours of duty or service of the CAF member;
whether or not the potential clients of the CAF member will be primarily DND employees, other CAF members and their family members;
the risk that the CAF member will be placed in a position which is not consistent with the principles of conduct set out in paragraph 3.2;
the general practice in the CAF regarding the approval of this type of civil employment or undertaking; and
any other factors that the CO considers to be relevant to the situation.

Review of COI by the DDEP

4.6 Once a CO has confirmed that the proposed civil employment or undertaking is not contrary to QR&O article 19.42, the CAF member must send the completed form DND 2839-E, along with the confirmation of the CO, to the DDEP in order to confirm that a COI does not prevent the CAF member from engaging in it.

5. Criteria Applicable to DND Employees and CAF Members
Applicable Criteria

5.1 In evaluating situations of COI, the permissibility of the holding of a non-exempt asset or liability, the permissibility of the conduct of an outside activity, or any action or decision of a DND employee or CAF member under this DAOD, the DDEP must consider the following:

whether the holding of the non-exempt asset or liability, the conduct of the outside activity or other action or decision of the DND employee or CAF member under this DAOD complies with the principles of conduct in paragraph 3.2, the ethical principles and specific values of the Department of National Defence and Canadian Forces Code of Values and Ethics and, in the case of a DND employee, the Treasury Board (TB) Policy on Conflict of Interest and Post-Employment, as they apply in their public roles;
whether the outside activity involves the use of GC property, including intellectual property;
whether the outside activity is in fact to be conducted outside the official working hours of the DND employee or the authorized hours of duty or service of the CAF member;
whether the holding of the non-exempt asset or liability, proposed outside activity or other action or decision of the DND employee or CAF member creates the potential for adverse public perception;
whether the non-exempt asset or proposed outside activity of the DND employee or CAF member will have the GC, DND or CAF as a user or client;
whether the non-exempt asset or proposed outside activity of the DND employee or CAF member will have other DND employees, other CAF members or their family members as users or clients; and
any other factors relevant to the situation.
Note – In this paragraph, “outside activity” includes any civil employment or undertaking or political activity of a CAF member.

5.2 In reaching a determination, the DDEP must always defer to the broader public interest above that of the personal interest of the DND employee or of the CAF member, or the interest of the DND or the CAF.

There is also DAOD 7023-1 and the The DND and CF Code of Values and Ethics, specfically from the latter

Table 1 - Ethical Principles of DND and CF

ETHICAL PRINCIPLES   EXPECTED BEHAVIOURS
1. RESPECT THE DIGNITY OF ALL PERSONS   

At all times and in all places, DND employees and CF members shall respect human dignity and the value of every person by: 

1.1  Treating every person with respect and fairness.
1.2  Valuing diversity and the benefit of combining the unique qualities and strengths inherent in a diverse workforce.
1.3  Helping to create and maintain safe and healthy workplaces that are free from harassment and discrimination.
1.4  Working together in a spirit of openness, honesty and transparency that encourages engagement, collaboration and respectful communication.
2. SERVE CANADA BEFORE SELF   
At all times and in all places, DND employees and CF members shall fulfil their commitments in a manner that best serves Canada, its people, its parliamentary democracy, DND and the CF by:

2.1   Making decisions and acting at all times in the public interest.
2.2   Performing their duty or their responsibilities to the highest ethical standards.
2.3   Avoiding or preventing situations that could give rise to personal or organizational conflicts of interests.
2.4   Providing decision-makers with all the information, analysis and advice they need, always striving to be open, candid and impartial.

Table 2 - Values and Expected Behaviours of DND Employees and CF Members

SPECIFIC VALUES   EXPECTED BEHAVIOURS
1. INTEGRITY   
DND employees and CF members shall serve the public interest by:

1.1  Acting at all times with integrity, and in a manner that will bear the closest public scrutiny; an obligation that may not be fully satisfied by simply acting within the law.
1.2  Never using their official roles to inappropriately obtain an advantage for themselves or to advantage or disadvantage others.
1.3  Taking all possible steps to prevent and resolve any real, apparent or potential conflicts of interest between their official responsibilities and their private affairs in favour of the public interest.
1.4  Acting in such a way as to maintain DND’s and the CF’s trust, as well as that of their peers, supervisors and subordinates.
1.5  Adhering to the highest ethical standards, communicating and acting with honesty, and avoiding deception.
1.6  Being dedicated to fairness and justice, committed to the pursuit of truth regardless of personal consequences.

7. Failure to Comply


7.2 For CF members

7.2.1 A CF member who fails to comply with ethical principles, values, expected behaviour or the policies of the DND and CF Code of Values and Ethics, or fails to comply with the DAOD 7023 series, may be subject to one or more of the following: 

change of duties;
release or other administrative action as set out in the Administrative Review (AR) Career Decisions block of DAOD 5019-2, Administrative Review; and/or
disciplinary action under the National Defence Act.

So yeah, I think these guys are up schitts creek on this one, particularly in regards to their association with "The Proud Boys" and my doubts that they went through the necessary steps outlined in DAOD 7021-1 to get approval.

The only thing you have demonstrated here Baron is that you are familiar with Microsoft's cut and paste function. Anyone with a passing familiarity with law understands that codified law is a starting point, not the final word. There is an abundance of employment law which also applies to the police, emergency services and the military which articulates the nexus that can be drawn between a member's off-duty conduct and their professional obligations. I suspect that your familiarity with that case law may be less profound than your ability to cut and paste sections of QR and O's from Canlii.

Suffice to say this. If the military attempts to discipline these members, I believe they would have a legitimate defence. I saw nothing in that video that indicates they brought the Canadian Forces into disrepute. They did not wear their uniforms, identify themselves as members of the forces, use profane, abusive or vulgar language or otherwise cause a disturbance. All I saw was a group of young men who engaged a group of activists in a discussion in a public place. As I mentioned before, people do not surrender their basic Charter rights as Canadians to engage in a public debate just because they join the forces. It is not enough for the military to say they have brought the service into disrepute. The prosecution still has to establish that they had some intent to disobey, or at least displayed a level of disregard for, established codes of conduct. None of that occurred here. If they are forced out administratively, I hope they sue. If they are court martialled, I hope they fight it tooth and nail.

This whole situation is a strong argument for some type of unionization in the military. I'm not personally in favour of that kind of a system, but at least it would ensure that these troops were treated a little more fairly and it would force the senior command to put a little more thought into their actions before kicking them to the curb.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #187 on: July 08, 2017, 23:08:24 »
There is an abundance of employment law which also applies to the police, emergency services and the military which articulates the nexus that can be drawn between a member's off-duty conduct and their professional obligations.

For reference to the discussion,

Forces.ca
"The Code of Service Discipline and Me"
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-reports-pubs-military-law/code-of-service-discipline.page

If you are a member of the Regular Force you are always subject to the CSD, both inside and outside Canada.

If you are a member of the Reserve Force, you are subject to the CSD:
•while undergoing drill or training (whether you are in uniform or not)
•whenever you are in uniform
•while on any military duty
•24 hours a day, 7 days a week during any period of full time service (Class "B" or "C" service)
•whenever you are present on defence property
•whenever you are in a vehicle, ship or aircraft of the CF.

This whole situation is a strong argument for some type of unionization in the military.

See also,

"Unionizing" the CF (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=1294.200
11 pages.


 




« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 11:47:04 by mariomike »
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Offline The Baron

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #188 on: July 09, 2017, 07:37:24 »
The only thing you have demonstrated here Baron is that you are familiar with Microsoft's cut and paste function. Anyone with a passing familiarity with law understands that codified law is a starting point, not the final word. There is an abundance of employment law which also applies to the police, emergency services and the military which articulates the nexus that can be drawn between a member's off-duty conduct and their professional obligations. I suspect that your familiarity with that case law may be less profound than your ability to cut and paste sections of QR and O's from Canlii.

Suffice to say this. If the military attempts to discipline these members, I believe they would have a legitimate defence. I saw nothing in that video that indicates they brought the Canadian Forces into disrepute. They did not wear their uniforms, identify themselves as members of the forces, use profane, abusive or vulgar language or otherwise cause a disturbance. All I saw was a group of young men who engaged a group of activists in a discussion in a public place. As I mentioned before, people do not surrender their basic Charter rights as Canadians to engage in a public debate just because they join the forces. It is not enough for the military to say they have brought the service into disrepute. The prosecution still has to establish that they had some intent to disobey, or at least displayed a level of disregard for, established codes of conduct. None of that occurred here. If they are forced out administratively, I hope they sue. If they are court martialled, I hope they fight it tooth and nail.

This whole situation is a strong argument for some type of unionization in the military. I'm not personally in favour of that kind of a system, but at least it would ensure that these troops were treated a little more fairly and it would force the senior command to put a little more thought into their actions before kicking them to the curb.

The only thing you have demonstrated is glossing over the part that CAF members are "suppposed" to get APPROVAL for outside activities PRIOR to getting involved. Which if you had read my follow on posts, that is where I think these guys are going to get in crap, since that part is fairly straight forward and unambiguous (enforcement of that provision may be spotty and THAT might be an issue down the road as mentioned a few posts up). But hey thanks for coming out and showing you are also adept at just using the quote button and not reading further posts.
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #189 on: July 10, 2017, 08:24:23 »
The only thing you have demonstrated is glossing over the part that CAF members are "suppposed" to get APPROVAL for outside activities PRIOR to getting involved. Which if you had read my follow on posts, that is where I think these guys are going to get in crap, since that part is fairly straight forward and unambiguous (enforcement of that provision may be spotty and THAT might be an issue down the road as mentioned a few posts up). But hey thanks for coming out and showing you are also adept at just using the quote button and not reading further posts.

I've had a read of that post I wrote that offended you and you're right Baron, it was vituperative. As I wrote it it sounded like a bit of soldierly banter, but having read it over it actually comes across and snide and nasty. I'll avoid doing that in the future.

That said, I believe these guys are being treated unfairly and that's fundamentally wrong.

That's my last word on the topic.

Cheers.
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Offline Shrek1985

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #190 on: July 11, 2017, 14:30:46 »
Just a few points, but first a big thank you to everyone who posted; this thread has been an excellent source of "One stop shopping" with all the links and references needed to understand just what the hell went on here.

Looks like another example of what defeat looks like and with some clues on how to avoid it for future civilizations to consider.

Questions.

1. Does anyone else ever look at some of the QR&Os...such as those cited and get disturbed by how subjective they are? Crossing the QR&Os can easily end your career, if not your professional life and It bothers me deeply that such poorly and flexibly worded regulations dictate our lives in the CF. Weasel words bother me in all laws, but I find them especially disturbing here.
2. A chaser to the above; so if I do not "Value Diversity"; a thought-crime, but one bounded in a lot of defensible philosophy and historical precedent, am I; in fact in violation of the QR&Os and subject to discipline for my personal opinion, whether I state it, or not? Should the COC come across a personal diary of mine, containing my most deeply held thoughts and feelings and including a historically sourced and referenced essay on the subject and stating in no uncertain terms my thoughts on the subject; might I be subject to discipline, if someone in my COC felt like it?
3. Had these individuals not been outed as military, would the CF have investigated nonetheless, just to ensure their bases were covered, just in case? Is this done with any and all suspect incidents? Or does any and all claim of CF membership compel the forces to investigate?
4. How is it, with all this sensitivity to the political activity of Canadian Forces members that it is that we are allowed to vote and even, under very limited circumstances; hold elected office? Accepting that humans aren't logically consistent creatures, it still seems rather glaring that as a CF member, I can vote, but not be a member of any political movement or party. Is that not the ultimate political expression? I wonder how far I would have to go to find individuals in the chain of command, who do not think we *should* be allowed to vote while serving in the CF?

Observations.

1. To the extent the QR&Os are objective, I think they should not be applied subjectively and I would doubt the integrity of any leadership structure which did so. As such; as they deal with politically inconvenient groups, such as the Proud Boys and those members who are a part; so too should they deal with any forces members who are part of such as Pride, Idle No More and BLM. Naturally, since Gay Pride is a political movement and the CF is barred from taking official or unofficial part in political activities, either as a force or within it's members, I think that any attendance of on or off-duty CF members at Pride events should be curtailed completely. I think the QR&Os were quite refreshingly clear on that point.
2. Since the QR&Os are quite clear on what I can and cannot say about my leaders and in the finest tradition of internet forums; that's not how I was taught, how I teach others or how I would have done it and I think that's about all I'm allowed to say on the matter.
3. However. If anyone under me ever doxed one of my troops, I would not rest until they were professionally destroyed. These individuals literally betrayed one of their own to those who would do them harm. Don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from; we're sworn to never leave a comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy. I cannot imagine what use their is for such a person in the Forces, but surely, wiser than me must be able to find something. I think that's about all I can say there too. All wholly hypothetical, mind you.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #191 on: July 12, 2017, 11:31:28 »
Curious:  blue golf shirts with gold collar/sleeve trim - an RCN thing or something else?
FYI, NOT an RCN thing ...
Quote
Fred Perry's classic laurel wreath polo is instantly recognizable—a staple of men's closets since the brand debuted in 1952. Though they were regularly sported by the likes of JFK, they also have a history of being co-opted by the darker side of skinhead culture, particularly the sect of skinheads who aligned themselves with the far-right extremist group called the British National Front in the 1970s. Since then, Fred Perry has worked hard to escape this image by recruiting brand partners such as tennis star Andy Murray and the late great singer Amy Winehouse. But in the era of Trump, with a bolstered far-right movement, a new chauvinistic group called the Proud Boys—which is basically a fraternity of white guys who like to punch each other and harass peaceful protestors—has adopted the Fred Perry polo as a part of its unofficial uniform, much to the chagrin of the label ...
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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #192 on: July 12, 2017, 12:42:10 »
FYI, NOT an RCN thing ...

Similar to how the Red Ensign seems to have been co-opted by the Canadian far right. Hence the accusation during the Cornwallis incident of the young lady calling the Red Ensign a "Confederate Flag".

I personally feel that the government should get ahead of this and state in no uncertain terms that the Red Ensign was the former national flag of Canada and therefore is a legitimate symbol of this country. Sadly I doubt that many in our current government give a hoot.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #193 on: July 12, 2017, 14:39:20 »
I guess they are emboldened with all the publicly. How much you want to be a email comes out forbidding any RCN from coming with 5 miles of the place. Notice the Idle no more hashtag.


Mi’kmaq in Nova Scotia split with leadership over Edward Cornwallis statue and Saturday’s ceremony


http://aptnnews.ca/2017/07/12/mikmaq-in-nova-scotia-split-with-leadership-over-edward-cornwallis-statue-and-saturdays-ceremony/

"Come join us JULY 15th @ 12pm for the historical take down of the Cornwallis statue. We the people have had enough with genocidal symbols of colonialism being venerated. To stand in solidarity create an action in your community and call the Mayor’s office in Halifax to demand the removal and to make your statement of solidarity with the Mi’kmaq! Bring your rope, your regalia, your songs, your dances, your medicine, your prayers, and your presence. Calling all peoples to come join in this Historic event! #DownWithCornwallis Idle No More @IdleNoMore4"
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline gryphonv

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #194 on: July 12, 2017, 15:48:25 »
I guess they are emboldened with all the publicly. How much you want to be a email comes out forbidding any RCN from coming with 5 miles of the place. Notice the Idle no more hashtag.




Yeah, ever since this started, I've done a lot of snooping through their facebook profiles.

A large amount of these people are what I called before 'professional protesters'. They been at protests for many things, not just Native Issues. I've seen them linked to Idle no more, the Occupy movement, various Anonymous protests, One even had a big thing about boycotting Starbucks. There have been many videos of them posted being arrested by police, sometimes wearing the Guy Fawkes mask, one video of a guy getting arrested was during the Bill C-51 protests. Many of them have a very clear hatred for anything that represents institutions, military included (this goes back farther then when the proud boys incident happened)

A lot of them fit the stereotype of disenfranchised millennials who are attending universities with little to no personal resources. They show up at events, with cameras in hand hoping for an incident to try to further their cause. Look at how often a video garners a public opinion, when it rarely shows what accurately happened.

I honestly feel the event Saturday is going to blow up, a few hundred have said they are going to the event through Facebook,  Over a 1000 are interested. Its not hard for mob mentality to take over if there are a few people brazen enough to start something. And I definitely feel a few of these are brazen enough.

I'm no longer in the forces, but I would imagine people in are being encouraged to avoid the area over Saturday. Nothing good can come from it if these people get you on video doing anything they can make you look culpable of something. Even worse if they find out you are military.

I'm defend the right of people to protest peacefully (though personally I dislike any sort of protester), but often a lot of this group crosses that line. I look at them as social terrorists, as their main goal isn't the protest (seen by their variety of protests) it's to cause anarchy and fight the 'institution'.

I don't envy the Mayor or the HRP in this event. Although I feel the Mayor has approached this very well. The HRP are going to have a tough job Saturday. This is like watching a train wreck from a week before it happens.

In the end, I think the 'Proud Boys' incident and all the public attention that came from that has empowered this group. One thing I am happy for though, even though the public sentiment towards the 'Proud Boys' incident was mostly condemnation for the 5 men(which I'm sad for), that hasn't seem to carry over for support to remove the statue like they plan on.

One thing I hope, is if anything Illegal happens this weekend, either through mischief or assaults. I hope each and every one is arrested and charged with the full weight of the law. Especially the organizers.


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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #195 on: July 20, 2017, 08:38:21 »

Alt-right group posts names, photos of 'potentially dangerous' Cornwallis protesters

28 people 'doxed' by national socialist group, some labelled as mentally ill


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/doxing-list-antifa-alt-right-cornwallis-statue-protest-1.4210331

Looks like things are going to get interesting between the two sides now.   :pop:
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #196 on: July 20, 2017, 08:57:22 »

Alt-right group posts names, photos of 'potentially dangerous' Cornwallis protesters

28 people 'doxed' by national socialist group, some labelled as mentally ill


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/doxing-list-antifa-alt-right-cornwallis-statue-protest-1.4210331

Looks like things are going to get interesting between the two sides now.   :pop:

Certainly don't condone this behavior, but the other side had no problem doing the same to the 5 "proud boys"
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #197 on: July 20, 2017, 09:33:25 »
Certainly don't condone this behavior, but the other side had no problem doing the same to the 5 "proud boys"

What goes around, comes around it seems.  Karma is a *****.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline gryphonv

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #198 on: July 20, 2017, 10:47:10 »
What goes around, comes around it seems.  Karma is a *****.

I'm not surprised but CBC fails to mention anything about the Doxing of the 5 soldiers/sailors but asked the Lawyer about his opinion on the legality of this 'doxing'.

I think both examples are pretty bad, though the 5 guys had it done a bit worse IMO. As the protesters actively encouraged people to call certain phone numbers.

The person who doxed the protesters twitter is a cesspool. I went over a few of the tweets, and they are pretty much the new way of Nazism. Both sides are extremes that we don't need in our society.

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Re: 'Confrontation' with Mi'gmaq ceremony/protest in Halifax
« Reply #199 on: July 20, 2017, 12:56:28 »

Alt-right group posts names, photos of 'potentially dangerous' Cornwallis protesters

28 people 'doxed' by national socialist group, some labelled as mentally ill


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/doxing-list-antifa-alt-right-cornwallis-statue-protest-1.4210331

Looks like things are going to get interesting between the two sides now.   :pop:

Not accounting for the character of who did this I think this is absolutely great, and not (just) because I'm an *******.

These professional protestors have zero problems with doxing their weekly targets and turning peoples lives upside down through targeted online harassment which includes threats of violence. If giving them their own medicine is what it takes to cure them of that behavior then it's perfect.

If it's not a deterrent then at least it's a level playing field for their stupidity.
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