Author Topic: Cadets and CADPAT in public  (Read 4724 times)

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Offline bark1231

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Cadets and CADPAT in public
« on: July 26, 2017, 03:36:24 »
I know some COs (not all) are fine with Cadets wearing CADPAT for things like FTXs, depending on who exactly the COs and the unit are, but that's besides the point here, anyways, if a cadet wearing CADPAT had no choice but to temporarily wear said uniform in public due to whatever circumstances (timing issues, transportation, etc.), do you think it would be disrespectful towards the CF? I know there are a lot of stolen valour issues, but if they were to say, wear a brassard that says "CADET", have the CADET rank slip-on, and directly state they are not a CF member, how would you feel about this?


Offline fake penguin

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 05:07:52 »
I been out for almost 5 years now so I don't know how the current members feel but I think it's silly to get upset over kids wearing cadpat.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 06:36:29 »
Isn't it only cic officers who are allowed to be issued and wear cadpat anyways?

They're adults who fall under the nda since they're a branch of the CAF.

Cadets wear old style olive green uniforms which are now specifically made for cadets.
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Offline TheFourSeasons

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 07:02:44 »
What do you mean by CADPAT? Canadian Pattern? Or are you referring to CADETPAT, a rendition of the MARPAT from the USMC which was phased out years ago? Army, Air and Sea Cadets never wear CADPAT, and as far as I know, do not wear CADETPAT anymore.

At least speaking in terms of Royal Canadian Army Cadets, they wear FTUs and DEUs.

I always wore my FTU and DEU in public if I was going to-and-from parade nights, optional activities, ceremonies and whatnot. I took public transit in the form of bus and train. When questioned about my affiliation, I would simply state that I was a member of the Royal Canadian Army Cadets. I was confused as being a Canadian Army soldier so much that I would have civvies salute me in public and thank me for serving. In these trivial instances, I never bothered to stop and correct them, but if I was in an actual dialogue with someone, I definitely would.

I also never claimed to be higher than the rank I was at the time of social interaction.

The corps that I were in didn't care about the issues which I've described above.

I told other cadets in my corps that I even went home in DEUs on one Remembrance Day, didn't change into civvies and instead went to a local dollar store in my uniform despite this usually being prohibited. None of them cared. The second Remembrance Day parade that I went on, I "stretched" my transportation out by leaving the public parade at the end, walking a few kilometers to a relative's house and finally back to my own house. Again, this time, nobody cared.

I was always told that wearing uniforms in public was prohibited UNLESS used for transporation purposes, tight time constraints and etc. The rules which are in place are there so that cadets can't roam the streets and act like their uniforms are a fashion item, as well as to lounge around in public places in order to casually socialize with civvies.

Civvies and cadets are the same, technically speaking, but I'm differentiating the two here for the sake of clarity.

However, nonewithstanding any of the above, I'm certain that each corps and squadron has different policies regarding public outings while in uniform. I would check with the chain of command if I were you, and if your chain of command is just as dysfunctional as the chain of commands in my corps were, then directly ask a CIC officer.

I aged out at 19 back in late 2016 anyway, so what I've said here may not be applicable to you on that basis alone.

In short, on that note: check with your CIC officers to see what the policy is.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 08:56:21 »
Probably real CADPAT that is abundantly available in surplus stores.

Online Chief Engineer

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 09:06:14 »
Most countries cadets wear the uniforms of the forces including camo. I see no problem with issuing cadpat to army cadets. Perhaps it will act as an incentive to keep them interested.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline mariomike

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 09:20:04 »
I know some COs (not all) are fine with Cadets wearing CADPAT for things like FTXs, depending on who exactly the COs and the unit are, but that's besides the point here, anyways, if a cadet wearing CADPAT had no choice but to temporarily wear said uniform in public due to whatever circumstances (timing issues, transportation, etc.), do you think it would be disrespectful towards the CF?

For reference to the discussion, see also,

Cadet Dress in Public 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=27617.75
6 pages.

Wearing Uniform in Public (Cadets)
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=104222.0
4 pages.

Cadpat Appropriate for Wear in Public?
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=36003.25
7 pages.

CADPAT for CIC 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=28335.0
3 pages.

CADPAT
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,16439.0/nowap.html
2 pages.
"Cadets with CADPAT?"

Cadet Kit 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=4358.250
17 pages.

What is wrong with CadetPat?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=79805.0

Speaking of combats for cadets..... 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=103131.0
2 pages.
"Why is that Cadet in the Cadetpat wearing a CANADA slip-on and crossed swords on his name tape?"

CadetPat field uniform 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=22875.350
17 pages.

etc...

Cadets wearing CADPAT in public,
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&biw=1280&bih=603&q=site%3Aarmy.ca++cadets+cadpat+public&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca++cadets+cadpat+public&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.17378.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D1%2Cnso-usnt%3D1%2Cnso-qnt-npqp%3D0-1%2Cnso-qnt-npdq%3D0-45%2Cnso-qnt-npt%3D0-09%2Cnso-qnt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mnp%3D0-045%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mxp%3D0-1125%2Cnso-unt-npqp%3D0-15%2Cnso-unt-npdq%3D0-25%2Cnso-unt-npt%3D0-06%2Cnso-unt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mnp%3D0-0075%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mxp%3D0-0525...0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.Cry0tWOtwXE

« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:43:56 by mariomike »

Offline bark1231

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 13:59:41 »
Isn't it only cic officers who are allowed to be issued and wear cadpat anyways?

They're adults who fall under the nda since they're a branch of the CAF.

Cadets wear old style olive green uniforms which are now specifically made for cadets.

Through the CF, yes. Although Cadets may get CADPAT through other means, generally surplus stores and whatnot. Yes, the ODs are issued (I believe they are the same as the CF was issued before they modernized the CF dress camo), although some Cadets may just prefer the camo. I don't wanna get too into discussion on it but as a para-military organization funded by the DND a lot of people just say something along the lines of "let the cadets have their fun. If they wanna play soldier, let them, they have only so much time to do so and if it means they look up to the people who ACTUALLY do that, that's a great recruiting method direct or not." Either way it's still up to the specific unit and their command, I know some are lenient versus some who just won't allow it.

Offline bark1231

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 18:08:44 »
What do you mean by CADPAT? Canadian Pattern? Or are you referring to CADETPAT, a rendition of the MARPAT from the USMC which was phased out years ago? Army, Air and Sea Cadets never wear CADPAT, and as far as I know, do not wear CADETPAT anymore.

At least speaking in terms of Royal Canadian Army Cadets, they wear FTUs and DEUs.

I always wore my FTU and DEU in public if I was going to-and-from parade nights, optional activities, ceremonies and whatnot. I took public transit in the form of bus and train. When questioned about my affiliation, I would simply state that I was a member of the Royal Canadian Army Cadets. I was confused as being a Canadian Army soldier so much that I would have civvies salute me in public and thank me for serving. In these trivial instances, I never bothered to stop and correct them, but if I was in an actual dialogue with someone, I definitely would.

I also never claimed to be higher than the rank I was at the time of social interaction.

The corps that I were in didn't care about the issues which I've described above.

I told other cadets in my corps that I even went home in DEUs on one Remembrance Day, didn't change into civvies and instead went to a local dollar store in my uniform despite this usually being prohibited. None of them cared. The second Remembrance Day parade that I went on, I "stretched" my transportation out by leaving the public parade at the end, walking a few kilometers to a relative's house and finally back to my own house. Again, this time, nobody cared.

I was always told that wearing uniforms in public was prohibited UNLESS used for transporation purposes, tight time constraints and etc. The rules which are in place are there so that cadets can't roam the streets and act like their uniforms are a fashion item, as well as to lounge around in public places in order to casually socialize with civvies.

Civvies and cadets are the same, technically speaking, but I'm differentiating the two here for the sake of clarity.

However, nonewithstanding any of the above, I'm certain that each corps and squadron has different policies regarding public outings while in uniform. I would check with the chain of command if I were you, and if your chain of command is just as dysfunctional as the chain of commands in my corps were, then directly ask a CIC officer.

I aged out at 19 back in late 2016 anyway, so what I've said here may not be applicable to you on that basis alone.

In short, on that note: check with your CIC officers to see what the policy is.

Yes, I'm referring to the Canadian Pattern (CADPAT) TWs. I'm referring to things like time constraints and transportation, not hanging out and waiting for people to come up and ask questions. That said, I am referring to if a Cadet in a unit where CADPAT is permitted for whatever reason on Cadets, say, in replacement for the OD FTUs, how they would feel about THAT in public. Given the same reasoning that any Cadet would wear the ODs in public like said time constraints or for transportation. The cadet slip-on, a "CADET" brassard, RCAC beret and etc. to distinguish them from CF, as well as vocally stating that they are only Cdt.

LightFighter

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2017, 18:21:54 »
RCAC beret and etc. to distinguish them from CF

Don't a majority of Cadet units wear the cap badge of their affiliated regiment or corps?  Seen plenty of Cadets with PPCLI, MP, RCEME, etc cap badges.

Most countries cadets wear the uniforms of the forces including camo. I see no problem with issuing cadpat to army cadets. Perhaps it will act as an incentive to keep them interested.

Do we have an excess amount of CADPAT available, so this wouldn't have any effect on CAF members able to get their initial issue and replacement CADPAT without issues/longer wait?

« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 18:28:47 by LightFighter »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2017, 18:40:17 »
It sounds like a lot of parents are trying to distance the army/air/sea cadets from the military as much as possible. Not really sure what goes through some parents heads when they sign their kids up for cadets.
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Offline Inspir

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2017, 18:50:30 »
Maybe Scouts would be better if they want to have that type of distance.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2017, 19:28:37 »
Genuine CAnadian Disruptive PATtern clothing is controlled and should not be turning up in Surplus Stores (but, yes, sometimes does). It is supposed to be rendered unusable prior to disposal. I have seen many different imitations of varying quality.

Offline 123zxy

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2017, 20:41:43 »
Please note that cadets are not to be wearing CADPAT, they follow CATO's and from cadet 46-01 (the Army cadet dress instructions), the Sea and Air also have this in the dress instructions.

UNAUTHORIZED UNIFORMS

46.     This CATO details the dress policy and authorized items of dress.  If an item of wear is not included in this CATO, it is not authorized and shall not be worn. Corps CO are responsible for ensuring that the dress policy is known and followed. The following are not authorized:

a.       any form of CF uniform or cadet uniform, past or present, not described in this CATO, including the CADPAT;

b.       any form of CF Mess Dress, past or present;

c.       badges of rank or insignia of the CF other than authorized cadet rank and insignia;

d.       crest and insignias that are produced by corps and CSTCs and which are not specifically authorized by the SSO Army cadets; and

e.       pins and logos of other civilian associations and organisations except for those that are specifically identified in CATOs.

Offline Downhiller229

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2017, 21:13:52 »
Oh man, you guys should have seen Pearson the other day. I was probably the only one not wearing a cadpat item of some sort. Suprised the locals didn't feel like they were being invaded.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2017, 22:17:33 »
Genuine CAnadian Disruptive PATtern clothing is controlled and should not be turning up in Surplus Stores (but, yes, sometimes does).

Sometimes does, from what I have read,

CADPAT, Civilian use/sale & the Law (merged).
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=16339.475
21 pages.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 22:22:19 by mariomike »

Offline bark1231

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2017, 23:59:52 »
Genuine CAnadian Disruptive PATtern clothing is controlled and should not be turning up in Surplus Stores (but, yes, sometimes does). It is supposed to be rendered unusable prior to disposal. I have seen many different imitations of varying quality.

I am aware. I'm referring to imitation CADPAT.

Offline Kyle Burrows

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2017, 00:55:19 »
Current CATOs governing Cadet uniform regulations, specifically 46-01 (Army), 55-04 (Air), and 36-01 (Sea), all expressly prohibit the wearing of CADPAT by cadets.  Additionally, the regulations stipulate that any civilian purchased field clothing cannot display any rank insignia or be worn with parts of the uniform.

However, the Army Cadet Program currently provides all cadets with an issued Field Training Uniform (FTU) that is almost identical to the old OG 107 Combat Shirt and Pants (Changes include - if I am recalling correctly: no inside breast pocket, no waist pocket nylon, slip-on placement on chest).

The FTU is currently authorized for wear during field training by all three branches (ref the above referenced CATOs) with complete uniform instructions for each.

It may not be CADPAT, but it is functional, effective, and fits the needs and aims of the program by providing attire appropriate for field training.
Junior officers and NCOs who neglect to guide the thinking of their men are shirking a command responsibility.
-- February 1955 Combat Forces Journal


Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: Cadets and CADPAT in public
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 17:30:10 »
It sounds like a lot of parents are trying to distance the army/air/sea cadets from the military as much as possible. Not really sure what goes through some parents heads when they sign their kids up for cadets.

Two words, 'free daycare'