Author Topic: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers  (Read 50340 times)

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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #100 on: August 21, 2017, 12:59:23 »
We have that - it's called the RCMP.

The RCMP have a specific immigration control mandate? Someone should tell them they're operating outside their arcs.
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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #101 on: August 21, 2017, 14:05:32 »
The only people who can stop that are the Americans on their side of the border.  There's nothing we can do to stop them from illegally crossing, other than arresting them upon entry, which we already are.

Maybe I am ignorant of laws on this, but how can the Americans stop them from leaving?  If I try to cross the border at Houlton from Woodstock (which I have), the only thing really stopping me is the US Border folks...I am trying to get into the US, not out of Canada.  If the US doesn't let me in...guess what?  I don't get in!  Seems pretty simple to me.

There is nothing we can do to stop them from illegally entering Canada...what?  What do we have CBSA for then?  We stop them at the border crossing and process them like they do at airports, etc.  They turn people away who can't enter Canada for various reasons.  So unless I am missing something, we (Canada) are knowingly letting people enter our country, illegally, from the US.   ???
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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #102 on: August 21, 2017, 14:15:49 »
There is nothing we can do to stop them from illegally entering Canada...what? What do we have CBSA for then? We stop them at the border crossing and process them like they do at airports, etc.  They turn people away who can't enter Canada for various reasons.  So unless I am missing something, we (Canada) are knowingly letting people enter our country, illegally, from the US.   ???



This quote provides an answer to one of your questions:

Quote
[/What happens once they cross?

The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is in charge of enforcing Canadian legislation at designated ports of entry, while the RCMP are responsible for enforcing the law between ports of entry.

Anyone who is detected by the RCMP outside official points of entry will be warned they are entering the country illegally and advised of the nearest official border crossing point.
quote]
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #103 on: August 21, 2017, 14:17:26 »
Returning to Canada around 2006/7 or so, we were stopped by a Homeland Security patrol car about 200 meters South of the border. They asked questions, looked in the trunk and the rest of the vehicle. Not really a search. Also a Homeland Security helicopter was flying North along I-29. Shortly after we were stopped.

I think the US could stop the flow, but they don't want to. In a way it resolves some of their problems and dumps it on Canada.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #104 on: August 21, 2017, 14:23:14 »
Maybe I am ignorant of laws on this, but how can the Americans stop them from leaving?  If I try to cross the border at Houlton from Woodstock (which I have), the only thing really stopping me is the US Border folks...I am trying to get into the US, not out of Canada.  If the US doesn't let me in...guess what?  I don't get in!  Seems pretty simple to me.

The US has border zones set up within ~80 miles of their border.  They can stop you entering or leaving, and detain you.

The US couldn't do any more to stop you from entering illegally than Canada has done.  They would arrest you on entry, and return you to Canada.  The people entering illegally in the cases we're talking about don't usually have any legal status in the US.  We can't simply turn them around because of that.  The Americans don't want them and won't take them.

Quote
There is nothing we can do to stop them from illegally entering Canada...what?

We can't enforce Canadian law on the US side of the border, and we can't turn them around as the US won't take them back - they aren't Americans.  We can arrest and deport them, unless of course they request asylum.  As the Safe Third Country Agreement doesn't apply here, we have to process and have no grounds to refuse.

Quote
What do we have CBSA for then?

The CBSA work only at official border crossings. The RCMP do their part (advise, warn, and arrest) and then hand them over the CBSA for immigration processing.  At those crossings they can deny entry to Americans or hold people from other countries for return to the US (if they'll take them - the US took one of the people found with child porn and charged him, as it was at an official border crossing and they decided to take him).  If the US won't take them back, we can deport them to their country of origin (if it is deemed a safe country), or have them enter our court system by charging them.

It's not as simple as so many people want to believe.

I think the US could stop the flow, but they don't want to. In a way it resolves some of their problems and dumps it on Canada.

Exactly - all of the people are being searched by the US before illegally crossing.  They're happy to let them leave. 

There are a few people, according to the articles, that have turned around after being told by the RCMP that what they're doing is illegal.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #105 on: August 21, 2017, 14:50:23 »
Just in from the Immigration Minister and Public Safety Minister (live right now) - they have added 20 Refugee officers to Montreal this week, and will add 10 more next week.  They will also add a team to Cornwall.  The current backlog is 5 months for processing, but it should come down with these changes.  They have instructed consular officials in the US to dispel myths about the refugee process in Canada.  Those found ineligible for refugee status will be removed, and people are being told that.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #106 on: August 21, 2017, 16:07:42 »
It's interesting reading up on the immigration process:

CBSA: Arrests, detentions and removals -  Removal from Canada

Government of Canada: Enforcement and violations

Government of Canada: Refugees and asylum

Government of Canada: Find out if you’re eligible – Refugee status from inside Canada

Quote
[/Your refugee claim may not be eligible to be referred to the IRB if you:
•have been recognized as a Convention refugee by another country that you can return to.
•have already been granted protected person status in Canada.
•arrived via the Canada-United States border.
•are not admissible to Canada on security grounds, or because of criminal activity or human rights violations.
•made a previous refugee claim that was not found eligible.
•made a previous refugee claim that was rejected by the IRB.
•abandoned or withdrew a previous refugee claim.

The IRB website has more about making an asylum claim in Canada.
quote]

Good points.

First off, these are not refugees, but migrants, illegally entering Canada from a Safe Third Country.

Second, they don't qualify for asylum according to any of the criteria laid out in any of the above links provided by Kratz, nor links on those links.

Canada and the US have almost identical policies reference the Haitians, and both consider Haiti to be a "Safe Country".  In fact the US had given the Haitians a longer period of time to remain in the US than Canada had for those who came to Canada  (also found within the links that Kratz posted).

Kratz also posted this, which would indicate that all these "illegals"  (NOT IRREGULAR FFS) should be transported to an official border crossing:

Quote
Anyone who is detected by the RCMP outside official points of entry will be warned they are entering the country illegally and advised of the nearest official border crossing point.

This should be the method by which they are either granted access or sent packing back the way whence they came.  Setting up a myriad of hostels for them and providing medical treatment, food and shelter of hundreds of thousands of illegals is frankly going to cost the Canadian tax payer BILLIONS, just to be added to the Trudeau Liberals INDEBTEDNESS.  Can Canada really handle this?
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #107 on: August 21, 2017, 16:21:40 »
Repeating the same false points doesn't make them correct.  They are not claiming asylum via the Canada US border.  That is only true if they arrive at the actual border point.  Read the Safe Third Country Agreement.

Once they illegally cross, they are arrested - inside of Canada.  At that point, their claim must be processed.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #108 on: August 21, 2017, 16:22:48 »
The RCMP have a specific immigration control mandate? Someone should tell them they're operating outside their arcs.

I missed this one - the RCMP is responsible for the security of the Canadian border.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #109 on: August 22, 2017, 16:55:57 »
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
It’s time we really took a look at Trudeau’s political philosophy
By Anthony Furey, Postmedia Network
First posted: Monday, August 21, 2017 03:30 PM EDT | Updated: Monday, August 21, 2017 03:49 PM EDT

Does Justin Trudeau support open borders? I can’t answer that question. Neither can most Canadians, including his colleagues in the Liberal caucus. I’m guessing only his closest friends can, if that.

This past weekend the prime minister once again sidestepped taking a firm stance against the illegal border crossings that have become precipitously worse in recent weeks.

Social service agencies are strained, regular Canadians are losing their faith in the system and we now have a de facto open border.

View the latest Government of Canada asylum claimant stats here

You’d think this mounting crisis would inspire strong words from the politician tasked with maintaining the integrity of the nation. Far from it.

“Canada is an open and welcoming country, but let me be clear — we are also a country of laws,” Trudeau said in Montreal on Sunday.

These were his toughest words so far yet still they never actually stated the basics: That these crossings are illegal and should not be happening.

Michelle Rempel, the Conservative critic on the file, recommended a number of social media postings Trudeau could make to set the record straight, like: “If you illegally enter Canada, you will be arrested and detained by the RCMP” and “I apologize for my #WelcomeToCanada tweet which may have made you think otherwise.”

[Tweet on LINK.]

Rempel’s right. But I don’t think it’s going to happen. Trudeau’s not shy about speaking up on issues when he wants to and believes it’s the right thing to do.

It looks like he just doesn’t want to this time. And why is this?

It’s almost an absurd question to be asking: Does the leader of the federal government care about the enforcement of the federal borders? But based on his troubling statements we’ve got to ask it.

[Tweet on LINK.]

And the very fact we do is a harsh reminder about just how poorly vetted Trudeau was back during the last election.

Politicos should ask themselves this: Just what exactly does this guy believe? I’ve followed him in great detail since the 2013 leadership race and really couldn’t tell you.



[Tweet on LINK.]

The 2006 Liberal leadership, by contrast, was covered inside and out. By the end of it there was little we didn’t know about Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae, so thoroughly chronicled and vetted their lives and perspectives were.

We learned who their college roommates were (each other!). We even learned how they fit into Isaiah Berlin’s fox and the hedgehog paradigm (long story).

They gave extensive speeches on public policy issues. They’d written a number of books and papers on sundry issues. Rae had a long political career to draw on and Ignatieff had his academic work.

They didn't just come out of nowhere. You knew what you were getting with them.

Meanwhile, Trudeau seemingly drifted through life before becoming an MP in 2008, leaving few breadcrumbs to tell us what serious thoughts he had, if any.

And even then, once in the House of Commons, he failed to distinguish himself on any committees or by presenting robust private members’ bills. He had no history of giving keynote speeches at think tanks and associations, as most leadership-calibre politicians do.

So, sure, he’s the leader of something called the Liberals and, yes, he’s said a few times he’s a fan of Wilfrid Laurier. But that’s not really a window into a man’s mind.

Trudeau’s political philosophy appears more in line with the SJW blogger contingent than the socially liberal, fiscally conservative outlook of the Chretien/Martin-era that precedes him.

Maybe the prime minister does support open borders. And that would be a big problem. Too bad we didn’t ask him tough questions like this before he got into office.



Remember:  Canada was well ahead of Trump when it declared 4 Aug 2016 was the last date that Haitian refugees could declare Residency in Canada or be deported.

Tweets and more on LINK.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 16:59:53 by George Wallace »
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #110 on: August 22, 2017, 22:49:45 »
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450712/justin-trudeau-illegal-refugee-crackdown

Trudeau Cracks Down on Illegal Immigration

by Philip H. DeVoe August 22, 2017 4:42 PM

After reminding the world that Canada is “a country of laws,” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced the nation will no longer be ignoring refugees who enter the country illegally. Faced with a rash of border crossings from the U.S. and growing criticism of his quixotic approach to border control, Trudeau’s decision marks a major turning-point from his campaign.

Evidently, Trudeau is recognizing what any head of state who campaigns for radically loose immigration policies must at some point: Opening borders poses serious problems, both practical and political. Angela Merkel is facing pressure to accept an upper limit of refugees in Germany, and many see Britain’s exit from the European Union as a rebellion against the EU’s more liberal refugee policy.

Canada’s refugee problem has grown exponentially in the past few months. In all of 2015, only 2,900 crossed over the U.S. border into Quebec illegally. Since July 1 of this year, that number has reached 6,800. Over half of those account for the first two weeks of August alone. A large number of these have fled the U.S. in fear of Donald Trump’s aggressive stance on illegal immigration and his proposal to make legal immigration a more exclusive process. Trudeau has not been vague on social media in his criticism of Trump’s border control policies, tweeting in January that Canada welcomes all, because “diversity is our strength.”

Enforcement is enforcement, however, and no progressive message of inclusion could save Trudeau from having to uphold his country’s laws. He informed the refugees on Sunday that they would be expected to go through the country’s “rigorous” screening process, reminding them that illegal crossing doesn’t allow them to circumvent existing laws.

This shouldn’t surprise. Canada’s process is one of the most rigorous in the world. Refugees aside, those who wish to immigrate to Canada must contend with a merit-based system similar to the one Trump proposed earlier this month. Skilled labor, points for French- and English-language proficiency, and high levels of education are all pre-requisites. As Trudeau is discovering, tone does not an immigration policy make.

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #111 on: August 22, 2017, 23:08:05 »
Yet strangely anyone else who expressed the same sentiments was suddenly a racist.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #112 on: August 22, 2017, 23:22:36 »
That article was pretty slanted.  Nothing has changed, other than language.  That changed due to public perception.  Canada is just as open (and closed) as it was a few hours ago.

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2017, 10:19:18 »
...other than setting up RCMP greeting centres along the border where there are aren't any official border crossing stations manned by CBSA officers...

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2017, 11:00:17 »
...other than setting up RCMP greeting centres along the border where there are aren't any official border crossing stations manned by CBSA officers...

Said 'greeting centres' are where every person crossing illegally is arrested, given their charter rights, and subjected to an interview for a number of purposes related to our national security and public safety, and the integrity of our immigration system. Short of summarily shooting them when they cross the border, I don't know what else you propose. Canada is constrained by its laws, and the law in this case dictates that illegal entrants will be arrested and detained. The fact that it has become necessary to do so wholesale and with the aid of some infrastructure does not change the law on the matter. I'm not sure what different approach you would suggest RCMP and CBSA take? We as a country have no right to turn around and dump them back in the U.S. without American permission- and they would just come right back anyway.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2017, 11:03:54 »
Said 'greeting centres' are where every person crossing illegally is arrested, given their charter rights, and subjected to an interview for a number of purposes related to our national security and public safety, and the integrity of our immigration system. Short of summarily shooting them when they cross the border, I don't know what else you propose. Canada is constrained by its laws, and the law in this case dictates that illegal entrants will be arrested and detained. The fact that it has become necessary to do so wholesale and with the aid of some infrastructure does not change the law on the matter. I'm not sure what different approach you would suggest RCMP and CBSA take? We as a country have no right to turn around and dump them back in the U.S. without American permission- and they would just come right back anyway.

Exactly - we can not ignore our own laws and the agreed upon norms and laws of the international community just because we happen to not like a situation.  This situation is going on around the world right now (largest mass migration since WWII) orders of magnitude higher.

Offline GAP

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2017, 11:16:22 »
But we can make a big unapologetic deal of deporting a good chunk of them back to Haiti.

That, more than anything else will send a vibrant loud message that you are just speeding up your deportation to Haiti if you come to Canada
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2017, 12:04:54 »
If that is what due process dictates be done, then yes we can. But that due process has to be allowed to happen. That's what upholding the rule of law in a democratic nation means. We don't get to always like the short term result.
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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #118 on: August 23, 2017, 12:09:42 »
Rule of law? They have unlawfully entered the country at an unlawful border crossing from a lawfully safe country. Straight on to bluebird busses, straight to the airport, and straight back home.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2017, 12:13:22 »
Rule of law? They have unlawfully entered the country at an unlawful border crossing from a lawfully safe country. Straight on to bluebird busses, straight to the airport, and straight back home.

That's not what Canadian Law states, that's not what the Safe Third Country Agreement states, and that's not what international law states. 

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #120 on: August 23, 2017, 12:37:44 »
Said 'greeting centres' are where every person crossing illegally is arrested, given their charter rights, and subjected to an interview for a number of purposes related to our national security and public safety, and the integrity of our immigration system. Short of summarily shooting them when they cross the border, I don't know what else you propose. Canada is constrained by its laws, and the law in this case dictates that illegal entrants will be arrested and detained. The fact that it has become necessary to do so wholesale and with the aid of some infrastructure does not change the law on the matter. I'm not sure what different approach you would suggest RCMP and CBSA take? We as a country have no right to turn around and dump them back in the U.S. without American permission- and they would just come right back anyway.

Brihard, absolutely no issue at all with the RCMP conducting the processing of illegal entrants who have chosen to not enter legally at a CBSA-controlled border crossing point-of-entry -- in fact, the opposite, they are conducting their duties aptly, I would say.  That said, and from a level higher than the black-shirts, it appears that the establishment of significant semi-permanent presences by the RCMP messages, at the very least to the illegal entrants, implies a level of acceptability to their crossing.  That and "less than emphatic" Government messaging about illegality of the crossing shouldn't make the numbers of crossings come as any real surprise.

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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #121 on: August 23, 2017, 12:44:54 »
That and "less than emphatic" Government messaging about illegality of the crossing shouldn't make the numbers of crossings come as any real surprise.

Trudeau has repeatedly said that it's illegal.  Hussen and Goodale have gone further.  They're even putting out messages from MPs and diplomatic staff in Creole to make it clear.  This is a problem of US creation.  They could stop it, if they wanted to.

Offline MARS

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #122 on: August 23, 2017, 13:04:05 »
Trudeau has repeatedly said that it's illegal.  Hussen and Goodale have gone further.  They're even putting out messages from MPs and diplomatic staff in Creole to make it clear.  This is a problem of US creation.  They could stop it, if they wanted to.

An opinion piece about how the PM could step up even a little bit more in his messaging, in the same vein that he made his 'always a place' message

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/myth-refugees-canada-trudeau-1.4257696
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #123 on: August 23, 2017, 13:42:16 »
Quote from: jmt18325
This is a problem of US creation. 

Quote
"Regardless of who you are or where you come from, there’s always a place for you in Canada."

Seems like a pretty straight forward invitation.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2017, 14:02:04 »
Seems like a pretty straight forward invitation.

Yes, in fairness, he should have worded that better, and I'm sure that plays into it a bit.  He was attempting to contrast himself and Trump.  Maybe it's best not to do that in 140 characters.  Everyone is welcome, with a great many caveats.