Author Topic: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers  (Read 31013 times)

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Offline Loachman

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #200 on: July 05, 2018, 16:47:05 »
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/07/05/ford-government-is-ending-cooperation-with-ottawa-on-resettlement-of-asylum-seekers.html

Ford government is ending co-operation with Ottawa on resettlement of asylum seekers

By Robert Benzie Queen's Park Bureau Chief

Thu., July 5, 2018

“The federal government encouraged illegal border crossers to come into our country, and the federal government continues to usher people across the U.S.-Quebec border into Ontario,” said Jefferies.

“This has resulted in a housing crisis, and threats to the services that Ontario families depend on. This mess was 100 per cent the result of the federal government, and the federal government should foot 100 per cent of the bills,” he said.

Offline Larry Strong

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #201 on: July 05, 2018, 19:36:39 »
Excellent...The former substitute drama teacher caused the issue.....so let him deal with it.......


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Offline recceguy

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #202 on: July 10, 2018, 03:09:59 »
The grits all have their panties ina twist because, like a normal person, Ford called them what they are, 'illegal aliens'. Using real language, instead of the Trudeau Governments made up words and phrases, has given them the vapours.
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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #203 on: July 10, 2018, 06:34:11 »
Excellent...The former substitute drama teacher caused the issue.....so let him deal with it.......


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Larry
What does ‘former substitute drama teacher’ have to do with anything at all?


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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #204 on: July 10, 2018, 07:22:08 »
The grits all have their panties ina twist because, like a normal person, Ford called them what they are, 'illegal aliens'. Using real language, instead of the Trudeau Governments made up words and phrases, has given them the vapours.

I'm pretty sure that "asylum seekers" is an actual term used.  Using real language.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #205 on: July 10, 2018, 07:38:27 »

There does not seem to be a coherent plan.  Toronto has always been a magnet for immigrants, illegal and legal. 

The housing issue in Toronto began well before Trudeau made is ill advised welcome message.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #206 on: July 10, 2018, 08:00:47 »
I'm pretty sure that "asylum seekers" is an actual term used.  Using real language.

Yes, and some may be. Others are economic migrants.

The recent custom, however, is not to legally seek asylum at a port of entry, but to illegally cross our border elsewhere, be arrested, and then, most likely, be released into the general population awaiting their hearing. They may or may not show up for that hearing.

Anybody who illegally crosses our border, is, by definition, an illegal border crosser, illegal immigrant, or, to use the American term, illegal alien. Those are also actual terms used, and real language.

And more honest.

Permitting their uncontrolled mass entry has financial costs, detracts from services designed and funded to support Canadians, and delays immigration processes for those who chose to follow our laws and apply legally.

Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #207 on: July 10, 2018, 08:14:15 »
Yes, and some may be. Others are economic migrants.

The recent custom, however, is not to legally seek asylum at a port of entry, but to illegally cross our border elsewhere, be arrested, and then, most likely, be released into the general population awaiting their hearing. They may or may not show up for that hearing.

Anybody who illegally crosses our border, is, by definition, an illegal border crosser, illegal immigrant, or, to use the American term, illegal alien. Those are also actual terms used, and real language.

And more honest.

Permitting their uncontrolled mass entry has financial costs, detracts from services designed and funded to support Canadians, and delays immigration processes for those who chose to follow our laws and apply legally.

No argument there.  I never said that those terms weren't real.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #208 on: July 10, 2018, 08:30:07 »
Roger.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #209 on: July 10, 2018, 08:49:02 »
While this discussion mimics one we have on our southern border its a serious problem in Canada with your generous benefits that only a legal migrant might get and could be a drain on your government.

Offline Bluebulldog

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #210 on: July 10, 2018, 09:03:51 »
There does not seem to be a coherent plan.  Toronto has always been a magnet for immigrants, illegal and legal. 

The housing issue in Toronto began well before Trudeau made is ill advised welcome message.

Correct. Much of the housing issue in Toronto was created by his father in the early 70s....
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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #211 on: July 10, 2018, 09:12:22 »
Correct. Much of the housing issue in Toronto was created by his father in the early 70s....

From what I've read it has to do with poor city planning and development over the last ten years. 
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #212 on: July 10, 2018, 09:44:24 »
I'm pretty sure that "asylum seekers" is an actual term used.  Using real language.

'Asylum Seekers' go to the embassy or regular border point and apply for entry, legally.

'Illegal Aliens' come into the country, well, illegally. Whether they use the services of smugglers, or use one of Trudeau's irregular border crossings (complete with RCMP baggage handlers.) It is still illegal and everyone doing it is a potential criminal.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #213 on: July 10, 2018, 10:10:07 »
'Asylum Seekers' go to the embassy or regular border point and apply for entry, legally.

'Illegal Aliens' come into the country, well, illegally. Whether they use the services of smugglers, or use one of Trudeau's irregular border crossings (complete with RCMP baggage handlers.) It is still illegal and everyone doing it is a potential criminal.

Actually legitimate asylum seekers are exempt.

“A person who has claimed refugee protection, and who came to Canada directly or indirectly from the country in respect of which the claim is made, may not be charged with an offence under section 122, paragraph 124(1)(a) or section 127 of this Act or under section 57, paragraph 340(c) or section 354, 366, 368, 374 or 403 of the Criminal Code, in relation to the coming into Canada of the person, pending disposition of their claim for refugee protection or if refugee protection is conferred,”

So even if the cross the border somewhere other than a port of entry, if they are in fact determined to be refugees then they are not criminals and won't be charged.
 

I totally get that not all asylum seekers are in fact legitimate.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #214 on: July 10, 2018, 12:09:37 »
'Asylum Seekers' go to the embassy or regular border point and apply for entry, legally.

'Illegal Aliens' come into the country, well, illegally. Whether they use the services of smugglers, or use one of Trudeau's irregular border crossings (complete with RCMP baggage handlers.) It is still illegal and everyone doing it is a potential criminal.

The law does not correspond with your opinion on the matter. Legally they are not presently able to apply for asylum at a regular land port of entry into Canada due to Safe Third Country. Many people have legally been in the US - or legally enter it on visa - but are neither asylum nor refugee claimants there. Some have indeed attempted to apply at land POE and have immediately been refused. Those who enter illegally elsewhere - eg, Lacolle, QC or Emerson, MB, have no less legitimate a claim by virtue of their method of entry. Now every single one is arrested, but Canada has not deemed it a wise COA to totally logjam Quebec’s criminal justice system by charging them under the Customs Act offence for which they are arrested on entry.

A portion of these claimants will indeed be granted asylum status because they have very valid claims. Another portion (probably the larger one) will not because they do not, and will eventually be repatriated. There is no single accurate sweeping generalization of who is coming across the border. Some are unquestionably economic migrants who are throwing a Hail Mary as they see the imminent end of Temporary Protected Status in the US. Others have left homes and towns that are utterly destroyed and do have legitimate fear for their life if they return, and they enter Canada as their intended destination, albeit via the US. There are lots of both.

The system as it presently exists has some huge problems, no question about it. But there are also a lot of people coming here whose claims fall exactly within what the asylum system is intended to address.

The problem is not going away quickly...
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #215 on: July 10, 2018, 18:13:49 »
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/07/09/most-canadians-dont-believe-government-has-a-clear-plan-for-border-crossers/

Border crossers: most Canadians don't believe government has a clear plan

by Dilshad Burman Posted Jul 9, 2018 5:00 am EDT Last Updated Jul 8, 2018 at 6:08 pm EDT

Offline Bluebulldog

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #216 on: July 12, 2018, 08:32:34 »
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/07/09/most-canadians-dont-believe-government-has-a-clear-plan-for-border-crossers/

Border crossers: most Canadians don't believe government has a clear plan

by Dilshad Burman Posted Jul 9, 2018 5:00 am EDT Last Updated Jul 8, 2018 at 6:08 pm EDT

Given the fact that many are being housed in college dorms, with the clock ticking, and no real alternative identified as to what happens in a few weeks when students are going to want the room they paid for, I'd say that assertion has merit.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #217 on: July 12, 2018, 09:44:13 »
Yup, I wouldn’t argue that either. On one hand, a bunch will be granted asylum status, and we’ll have to figure out how to integrate those into Canada. On the flip side, a bunch won’t, and will be subject to removal, and the government will face the mounting pressure that will come with the compulsory removal from Canada of potentially dozens of failed claimants per day. There will be activists seizing on that - and make no mistake, kicking someone out of here and sending them to Lagos or Port Au Prince will be dismal. We will probably start to see a few stories of those who were sent home and then came to harm. Against that, any criminal act alleged or proven to have been committed by anyone who claimed asylum will get trumpeted by others to drum up anti-immigration sentiment.

There is no political win here for the government. There’s no easy fix, maybe not even a difficult one. And while they keep kicking the can down the road, municipalities are facing a greater and greater burden from trying to accommodate these people. I believe this will get worse before it gets better.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #218 on: July 12, 2018, 13:36:49 »
It was my intent to only post key sections of this article, but I could not decide which bits to chop out. As it is a good summary of the whole problem, I elected to keep it intact.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly-mcparland-ford-is-telling-trudeau-what-needs-to-be-said-about-the-border

Kelly McParland: Ford is telling Trudeau what needs to be said about the border

July 12, 2018 10:57 AM EDT

Doug Ford’s only been in office a matter of days but his refusal to help Ottawa disperse a surge of asylum-claimants arriving from Quebec already has him taking some serious flak.

Much of it comes from the same camp that failed to foresee the problem, helped make it worse, hasn’t come up with a workable solution and still lacks a serious proposal for dealing with the cause. But never mind that. The charges against the new premier are that his reluctance to help ease the pressure on Toronto - where most of the claimants are landing after crossing the U.S. border in Quebec - is mean-spirited, unhelpful and contrary to Canada’s traditionally tolerant approach to refugees and immigrants.

It may indeed be unhelpful: to Ottawa, which has been slow to react and ponderous in approach, and to Toronto, which lacks the space, resources and finances to handle the inflow on its own. But there’s a reason for that, and the other complaints are open to question.

There’s no particular evidence to the charge that it’s mean-spirited. If Ford has dark and dirty thoughts about newcomers to Canada, he keeps it well hidden. He represents a typically diverse area of Toronto - the 2016 census gives Etobicoke North one of the city’s highest concentrations of visible minorities - where his family remains highly popular, to the bewilderment of many in the city’s higher-toned neighbourhoods. The worst that’s been dredged up since he became premier is his use of the term “illegal border crossers” to describe refugee claimants. The Toronto Star calls this “dangerous rhetoric” and quotes a lawyer arguing that the word “illegal” isn’t strictly accurate because their cases haven’t been heard yet.

Well, it’s true their ultimate status hasn’t been ruled on yet. But there’s a sign at the busiest Quebec border site that says: “It is illegal to cross the border here or any place that is not a Port of Entry.” The RCMP, which taken up a semi-permanent presence at the crossing, shouts out warnings to new arrivals that crossing there is illegal and they will be arrested.

So, strictly speaking and in the most exacting possible terms, the arrivals aren’t yet illegal, because it takes time for their cases to be heard. But they’re crossing at an illegal site in an illegal way, and being warned by police that they’re breaking the law. So suggesting they’re involved in an illegal act isn’t really a sign of manifest bigotry. It could similarly be noted that they aren’t refugees either - as their defenders casually term them - since that also hasn’t been ruled on.

What they are is a conundrum to which the federal Liberals have been slow in responding. The surge of asylum claimants was allowed to build to a crisis point in Quebec, where Premier Philippe Couillard complained it cost the province $146 million in 2017, and was only worsening this year. After being lectured by federal Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen, Couillard denounced Ottawa’s attitude as “unacceptable” and said it showed “a complete ignorance of the realities on the ground.”

The Liberals responded by agreeing to help shift some of the overflow to other provinces, Ontario being the most obvious. Hundreds of claimants thus began arriving in Toronto, which is no better equipped to deal with them than Montreal, and where Mayor John Tory soon began parroting Quebec’s demands for money and a workable strategy.

Again, the feds had nothing substantial to offer. Initially they insisted their hands were tied until the new provincial government took power. Then, when Ford revealed his refusal to play along, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau felt obliged to suggest he was too dim to appreciate the complexities of the asylum system, and revealed he’d spent time”explaining how the … system works.”

Ontario voters might submit that treating their newly elected premier as a dunderhead is not the epitome of helpfulness. Liberals were miffed in turn that Ford put the blame for the situation “100 per cent” on them, and suggested “the federal government should foot 100 per cent of the bills.”

But Ford’s not far wrong in that; when the surge began it was put down to fear in the U.S. that the Trump administration would end their protected status and send them home. Trudeau unquestionably encouraged their hopes when he tweeted that Canada would welcome all those “fleeing persecution, terror & war,” which reflected Canada’s traditional generous spirit but also signalled to tens of thousands of potential arrivals that Canada had thrown open its doors to all comers.

Most arrivals at that point were Haitians, but the makeup has changed and many now are Nigerians who first gain entry to the U.S., then head quickly to the Canadian border. There is little doubt many are exploiting a loophole in Canada’s Safe Third Country Agreement with Washington that makes entry easier as long as they do it at an illegal crossing. Trudeau’s government recognized this reality when it sent federal representatives to Nigeria to stem the flow.

It’s fair to say Ford isn’t being polite and co-operative. Instead he is calling attention to the starkness of the problem by asserting - bluntly, admittedly - that Ottawa’s dithering and delay has given a difficult situation time to build to a crisis that is now troubling two of the country’s biggest cities.

Ottawa hasn’t shown itself to be either capable or competent in handling the file. It still has no proposal for remedying the cause of the dilemma; instead it’s focused on trying to disperse those who have already managed to make their way across the border. Having been elected on a promise of fiscal restraint, Ford doesn’t want to get stuck with bills Ottawa would prefer to offload. Ontario can’t afford it in any case, thanks in large part to the profligate borrowing and spending habits of Ford’s Liberal predecessors.

All the tisk-tisking about the new premier’s manners misses the point. When Ottawa shows it has a concrete idea on how to move forward to address the core of the issue, it will have earned a more co-operative response. Until then, it can point its fingers elsewhere.

Offline Altair

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #219 on: July 12, 2018, 15:30:44 »
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-rock-on-the-rocks-newfoundland-labrador-bankruptcy

Meanwhile Newfoundland and Labrador is going bankrupt, in part because
Quote
“It is becoming a very hard sell to bring people there and keep people there.”

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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #220 on: July 12, 2018, 15:50:15 »
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-rock-on-the-rocks-newfoundland-labrador-bankruptcy

Meanwhile Newfoundland and Labrador is going bankrupt, in part because
Quote
“It is becoming a very hard sell to bring people there and keep people there.”

Hmmm. I think I can see a solution to our problems.
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Offline Altair

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #221 on: July 12, 2018, 15:58:39 »
Maybe a wise individual would look at the two situations and come to the conclusion that asylum seekers must live in Newfoundland and Labrador for 10 years if they want to come to Canada.

One of two things will happen.

One, they happilly live in NFL and LBD or two, they decide the violence, poverty, poor living conditions and corrupt politics of whatever country they came from is better than a Newfoundland winter, and leave of their own accord.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #222 on: July 12, 2018, 16:05:11 »
Quote from: Retired AF Guy
Hmmm. I think I can see a solution to our problems.
I saw the same solution for 5 seconds.
Unless it comes with a free house, free car and spending money it's not going to work.

When the government contacted those 20'000 or 30'000 refugees to try and coax them to coming to Canada we had what, 3000 people interested? Can't see many of our new guests excited at the prospect of heading out that way. Which is unfortunate for them because it's such a beautiful part of our country.
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Offline Altair

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #223 on: July 12, 2018, 16:53:42 »
I saw the same solution for 5 seconds.
Unless it comes with a free house, free car and spending money it's not going to work.

When the government contacted those 20'000 or 30'000 refugees to try and coax them to coming to Canada we had what, 3000 people interested? Can't see many of our new guests excited at the prospect of heading out that way. Which is unfortunate for them because it's such a beautiful part of our country.
you're making that sound a lot more voluntary than it needs to be.
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Offline Furniture

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Re: Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers
« Reply #224 on: July 13, 2018, 07:22:33 »
you're making that sound a lot more voluntary than it needs to be.

How long would forcing someone to live in a particular part of the country stand up in court?