Author Topic: All things Charlottesville (merged)  (Read 107085 times)

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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2017, 19:30:31 »
Kind of cute, but I'd actually call it "Centre, attacking first alt-right, then a year later, alt-left for the next 45+ years.  ;)

Regards
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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2017, 19:39:15 »
What's that catchy little phrase when comparing the two sides again? Oh, right, "false equivalency".  ::)
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline suffolkowner

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2017, 19:59:44 »
I said to myself the soviets had an amphibious landing against the germans? That whooshing sound above my head

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2017, 20:57:04 »
Here's the full transcript of the Trump speech/presser that is being spun in all sorts of directions by the media today:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article167364607.html

Offline jmt18325

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2017, 20:59:45 »
There's not much need to spin that. 

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2017, 21:32:41 »
There's not much need to spin that.

I mean, if you're looking for confirmation bias, absolutely no need to spin anything. You'll read what you want out of the text regardless of what words are on there.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2017, 21:42:19 »
I mean, if you're looking for confirmation bias, absolutely no need to spin anything. You'll read what you want out of the text regardless of what words are on there.

Anyone who can say that there are two sides when we're talking about an actual nazi rally, complete with white nationalist terrorism, goes far beyond confirmation bias.  When David Duke praises your assessment of events, it goes far beyond confirmation bias.  When you say 'what about the alt left?' (sic) when discussing what happened at an event where a your girl was murdered, you're beyond confirmation bias. 

Justin Trudeau deserves nuanced thinking.  Stephen Harper and Barack Obama deserved nuanced thinking.  Donald Trump is now far beyond that, despite his previous (sometimes, depending on the day) repudiations.

Offline QV

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2017, 21:45:41 »
You know, it is possible for there to be more than one bad guy in the room jmt.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2017, 21:47:02 »
You know, it is possible for there to be more than one bad guy in the room jmt.

Yup! Here I am!! :rofl:
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2017, 22:16:19 »
Anyone who can say that there are two sides when we're talking about an actual nazi rally, complete with white nationalist terrorism, goes far beyond confirmation bias ...
Remember, it's still ok to say there's more than one side.  That said, there's this ...
What's that catchy little phrase when comparing the two sides again? Oh, right, "false equivalency".  ::)
... and the fact that just because there's two sides, the shades of grey (ideally) pop out when discussing the legitimacy/tactics/"rightness" of the respective sides - including the most extreme examples of both sides.
... You'll read what you want out of the text regardless of what words are on there.
In fact, zackly how various media do it #CherryPickingWithDifferentGlassesOn
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2017, 22:26:49 »
You know, it is possible for there to be more than one bad guy in the room jmt.

Sure - in this case, one just happens to be a nazi.  Anyone who can hate another person for such vile reasons never deserves any benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned
.

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2017, 22:29:05 »
Sure - in this case, one just happens to be a nazi.  Anyone who can hate another person for such vile reasons never deserves any benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned
.
But it's wise to not let one's hatred keep one too blind to learn about the enemy, if nothing else to learn the weak points ...  ;)
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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2017, 22:41:46 »
Remember, it's still ok to say there's more than one side.  That said, there's this ...... and the fact that just because there's two sides, the shades of grey (ideally) pop out when discussing the legitimacy/tactics/"rightness" of the respective sides - including the most extreme examples of both sides.In fact, zackly how various media do it #CherryPickingWithDifferentGlassesOn

Okay, hold it right there.  Before the tragic events of last week, the principal offenders in muzzling anyone who dared not to engage in right-think were Antifa and BLM.  Rioting on college campuses and smashing people in the head with bicycle locks, burning and looting, and at least indirectly inciting the murder of cops and white folks in general, and overthrowing the government.  I IN NO WAY SUPPORT ANY SORT OF -ISM, except anti-assholeism, and there is plenty of that to go around.  Any time that the irony of Antifa taking it's tactics directly out of the Brownshirt's playbook from the 1933/34 season is shouted down as a false equivalency.  So is your picture.  To equate thugs on any side smashing up crap with those guys going up that beach, including three Great Uncles, only one of which came home, in order to stop a great evil in a DECLARED WAR with rules and everything, is in my opinion pretty ******* weak.  I get it, you educated guys are way smarter than us deplorables who swing shovels and whatnot for a living. It's your world, we just work in it. Shan't bother you any longer.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2017, 22:48:07 »
Okay, hold it right there.  Before the tragic events of last week, the principal offenders in muzzling anyone who dared not to engage in right-think were Antifa and BLM.  Rioting on college campuses and smashing people in the head with bicycle locks, burning and looting, and at least indirectly inciting the murder of cops and white folks in general, and overthrowing the government.  I IN NO WAY SUPPORT ANY SORT OF -ISM, except anti-assholeism, and there is plenty of that to go around.  Any time that the irony of Antifa taking it's tactics directly out of the Brownshirt's playbook from the 1933/34 season is shouted down as a false equivalency.  So is your picture.  To equate thugs on any side smashing up crap with those guys going up that beach, including three Great Uncles, only one of which came home, in order to stop a great evil in a DECLARED WAR with rules and everything, is in my opinion pretty ******* weak.  I get it, you educated guys are way smarter than us deplorables who swing shovels and whatnot for a living. It's your world, we just work in it. Shan't bother you any longer.
I'm gonna reel back in & rephrase, then - I'm NOT saying both sides are equal (hence your quote).  I'm just saying that you have to look at both sides to compare/contrast, nothing more.  I read your assessment & get it, 150%.  You're also likely to see assessments go the other way, but you have to consider both sides - like I also said later about "knowing your enemy".

Sincere apologies if you considered that a shot of ANY kind - not intended that way.  I respect your opinion as much as anyone's here, so I certainly don't think my glasses are better than yours.  Different, maybe, but not superior.  Mea culpa ...
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The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2017, 22:54:52 »
I barked. Fire, Ready, Aim. Been a crap day, apologies to all.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2017, 22:57:48 »
I barked. Fire, Ready, Aim. Been a crap day, apologies to all.
As I reread my bit, I could see you taking it that way - no harm, no foul  :salute:
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

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Offline Brihard

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2017, 23:04:03 »
Okay, hold it right there.  Before the tragic events of last week, the principal offenders in muzzling anyone who dared not to engage in right-think were Antifa and BLM.  Rioting on college campuses and smashing people in the head with bicycle locks, burning and looting, and at least indirectly inciting the murder of cops and white folks in general, and overthrowing the government.  I IN NO WAY SUPPORT ANY SORT OF -ISM, except anti-assholeism, and there is plenty of that to go around.  Any time that the irony of Antifa taking it's tactics directly out of the Brownshirt's playbook from the 1933/34 season is shouted down as a false equivalency.  So is your picture.  To equate thugs on any side smashing up crap with those guys going up that beach, including three Great Uncles, only one of which came home, in order to stop a great evil in a DECLARED WAR with rules and everything, is in my opinion pretty ******* weak.  I get it, you educated guys are way smarter than us deplorables who swing shovels and whatnot for a living. It's your world, we just work in it. Shan't bother you any longer.

Your critical failing is that you're trying to pick at this as a 'point in time' rather than looking at historical trajectories.

We are all well aware that we are not looking at the Alt-Right as contrasted with Nazis circa 1942... But rather circa 1922. Unfortunately, those of today are emboldened by seeing from history just what is possible when a group of people are riled up against a purported ethnic foe. We today are not dealing with trailbazing fascists, but rather those following on ground that has already been broken. Those today also have the ability to surround themselves with like minded individuals in a social media echo chamber- their thin dispersal across the country is no longer the weakness it once was. A critical mass is easier to assemble and concentrate.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2017, 23:05:42 »
I IN NO WAY SUPPORT ANY SORT OF -ISM, except anti-assholeism

Kat: Where can I sign up to join?

Just love that statement: Milpoints inbound.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2017, 23:16:03 »
Sure - in this case, one just happens to be a nazi.  Anyone who can hate another person for such vile reasons never deserves any benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned
.

Did you forget to mention ANTIFA, BLM, Black Panthers...............George Soros, etc, or don`t they count `as anyone who can hate another person for such vile reasons never deserves any benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned`
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2017, 23:32:17 »
I barked. Fire, Ready, Aim. Been a crap day, apologies to all.

No need. Too many people start reading, lock onto a phrase, word or idea of a narrative. They type like they think they would be saying things.

Well, they hit that spot, stop reading the whole narrative so they can understand what`s being said, butt in and go after you for it. Sometimes, people post as if  they are talking to themselves, and expect everyone to understand them completely. Myself, along with hundreds of people just in this forum, seldom ask for clarification if they misunderstand. Instead of realizing it may be questionable, or downright stupid and asking to clarify, they take it as fact and attack, engage, use whatever word you want.

Then there`s the odd person who will critique your, spelling, grammar, don`t forget syntax, etc to show your dealing, out of your depth, with their superior intellect, but never get around to answering your question.

In the end, in accordance with Mikes wishes, lots of us have to start being more careful about how we deal with each other.

 :2c:
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2017, 23:39:46 »
Did you forget to mention ANTIFA, BLM, Black Panthers...............

That's not even close to the same thing.  BLM and ANTIFA exist precisely because of groups like the KKK.  Black people in America have undergone repressions that most of us can't even imagine.  It's not the same as white supremacy.

Quote
George Soros, etc, or don`t they count `as anyone who can hate another person for such vile reasons never deserves any benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned`

George Soros doesn't count to me because I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

Offline Lumber

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2017, 23:41:26 »
From Twitter

Alt-left, violently coming at the alt-right, circa 1944.



I can't get on twitter right now, so I don't know if there's context here, but on the face  of it, the caption to this picture upsets me.

This is not the alt-left attacking the alt-right. This is the moderate, majority centre attacking the alt-right.

Protests, riots, civil unrest and and terrorism are what happens when you galvanize the alt-right and alt-left.

War, and what you see in this picture, is what happens when you piss of and galvanize the rest of us.

Don't group our veterans relatives into the same group as those alt-left neo-social-Marxist a$$holes.



P.S. Hey Mods, can I change my username to "George Soros" just so I can report RG for personal attacks and get him to stop bringing up George Soros?
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2017, 00:05:54 »
Your critical failing is that you're trying to pick at this as a 'point in time' rather than looking at historical trajectories.

We are all well aware that we are not looking at the Alt-Right as contrasted with Nazis circa 1942... But rather circa 1922. Unfortunately, those of today are emboldened by seeing from history just what is possible when a group of people are riled up against a purported ethnic foe. We today are not dealing with trailbazing fascists, but rather those following on ground that has already been broken. Those today also have the ability to surround themselves with like minded individuals in a social media echo chamber- their thin dispersal across the country is no longer the weakness it once was. A critical mass is easier to assemble and concentrate.

Ever see some major event happen and think, "gee I feel like I've seen this all before?"

These aren't new problems, they are problems we've always faced and they come in waves.  The means are different but the ends are the same.  It's called social cycle theory.   ;)

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2017, 00:12:22 »

P.S. Hey Mods, can I change my username to "George Soros" just so I can report RG for personal attacks and get him to stop bringing up George Soros?

Why should I? His hands are all over this stuff. You don`t agree with me, so you want to censure me?  That's a little far left there, isn't it? :dunno:    :)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 00:15:44 by recceguy »
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

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Re: All things Charlottesville (merged)
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2017, 00:53:06 »
Can we get back on topic and have whom ever is involved in this pissing contest take it to PM's
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe