Topic: Politics in 2018

[Cloud Cover]

Which point- I said that valuable court time was being used up, not that the issue itself shouldn't have been heard. The gender pronoun and gender identification issues are rapidly adding to the complexity of some family law cases.  The Applicant (father) of course had an uphill battle, but the ongoing actions and the apparent toxic attitude of the "agender, non-binary Transgender" respondent who agreed to be referred to as "mother" surely made it easier for him to help out his child.   Of course costs are awarded every day. The motions judge limited the Respondent to 3 pages as a response to a Applicant's bill of costs including any offer to settle, and although brevity is preferred for those submissions that particular restriction in this case is not within the normal standard for Ontario courts and is a very strong hint that the court had heard enough of the matter.
 
I'm not going to litigate the fricking thing with you. I just posted it as an example of the complexity.

edit: added "toxic"

[Jarnhamar]

1. An order directing the party who infringed the right to pay monetary compensation to the party whose right was infringed for loss arising out of the infringement, including compensation for injury to dignity, feelings and self-respect.

2. An order directing the party who infringed the right to make restitution to the party whose right was infringed, other than through monetary compensation, for loss arising out of the infringement, including restitution for injury to dignity, feelings and self-respect.

So can I get restitution for someone calling me a Nazi and hurting my feelings?

[Journeyman]

So can I get restitution for someone calling me a Nazi and hurting my feelings?

It's only hurtful because we'll never have the Nazi's degree of governmental support and defence spending.   


Note: it's a joke.   Nazi = bad.   

[Jarnhamar]

Note: it's a joke.   Nazi = bad.   

I shouldn't mention my great uncle in the Fallschirmjäger airforce attacking the Greek and Allied forces on Crete enemies.

But a nice settlement sure would pay for some sweet riding gear....with skulls. 

[Journeyman]

But a nice settlement sure would pay for some sweet riding gear....with skulls.

Excellent.   

[Jarnhamar]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4066542/woman-arrested-window-damaged-following-protest-at-queens-over-controversial-lecture/

During the protest, a stained glass window at the historic building was smashed.  A 38-year-old Kingston woman was arrested and is facing a number of charges including mischief, assault police and carrying a concealed weapon.

According to police, the suspect, who is not a student, broke the window while standing on a ledge banging on it.  She then fled but was picked up not far from the demonstration by plainclothes officers.  Once handcuffed, police say the woman became violent and began kicking at one officer.  Police say the suspect also tried to kick out the window of a police cruiser.

Swipe left on this one fellas

[ModlrMike]

At the risk of sending this thread down the free speech rabbit hole, this should be interesting:

https://www.munkdebates.com/The-Debates/Political-Correctness

[ballz]

Well since we're on the topic... a black female Member of Parliament recently tried to marginalize a white man's opinion prior to telling him to be quiet...

https://globalnews.ca/news/4066282/maxime-bernier-liberal-mp-twitter-barb/

Seeing the error of her ways, she admitting telling him to be quiet was "not cool" in the weakest apology ever, while not batting an eyelash at the fact that she tried to marginalize his opinion due him being a white male ("check your privilege").

Max did the right there here by calling a spade a spade and not accepting that weaksauce apology.

[YZT580]

Max is far closer to the concept of equality than she will ever be.  A world where everyone is colourblind.  No wonder is refused the meeting: they are on opposite sides of a very wide divide.

[Altair]

Max is far closer to the concept of equality than she will ever be.  A world where everyone is colourblind.  No wonder is refused the meeting: they are on opposite sides of a very wide divide.

I wish max was leader.

[FJAG]

. . .
 
And that, FJAG, is the reason that certain people from Western Canada (we won't name him - OK, its Ezra Levant ) have referred to the various provincial human rights commission's investigators as the "Thought Police" and the Commission themselves as "Kangaroo courts".

. . .

Human Rights commissions are generally curious things which generally reflect the attitude of the prevailing legislature. When I was appointed to the Manitoba Human Rights Commission as a hearing officer it was by a Conservative Minister of Justice. When the NDP were voted in I dutifully tendered my resignation and, after a lengthy delay, it was dutifully accepted by the new Minister.

One thing was that while at the time all of the hearing officers were of the conservative persuasion, the permanent staff (which does much of the vetting and even pre hearing negotiations of the case) were fairly much of a kinder, gentler, more socialist bent.

In the end though it's the legislation that governs. As a hearing officer you have to follow the law as written and (to an extent) as decided by prior court or tribunal decisions. The trend is that the legislation continues to expand and makes more and more personal characteristics subject to protection. In my humble opinion, one needs to remember that there is absolutely nothing to stop a white male from seeking protection under the act. The last time I looked, white was a colour, European was a place of origin and ancestry, Caucasian a race and male a sex.

 

[Altair]

John Ivison: Trudeau's blunder-filled India trip sinks Liberals in the polls: http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/john-ivison-trudeaus-blunder-filled-india-trip-sinks-liberals-in-the-polls

On Wednesday Abacus Data released a huge poll of 4,023 Canadians that found Liberal support has dipped to 36 per cent, the lowest the company has measured since the 2015 election. The Conservatives were on 33 per cent, followed by the NDP on 18 per cent. Most of the Liberals slippage occurred in Ontario and, given the static impressions of Conservative leader Andrew Scheer and NDP leader Jagmeet Singh, it suggests the Liberal dip in support was self-inflicted — and linked to the Prime Minister’s trip to India.

The most telling statistic was the graph tracking Trudeau’s personal popularity, which has dipped from 47 per cent to 39 per cent in the last month, just as negative impressions have grown from 31 per cent to 38 per cent. In other words, as many people who have a positive view of Trudeau have a negative view.

That things could change so dramatically illustrates the perils of hitching a government’s wagon to a star prime minister.

In the Westminster system, party loyalties are traditionally more important than leaders when it comes to winning elections but the Liberals have taken presidential-style politics to new levels, making the leader synonymous with the party brand. At the height of Trudeau’s popularity it bolstered that brand, but we may now be seeing the inverse.

The Abacus polling makes it pretty clear that the catalyst is Trudeau’s ill-starred trip to India — his rating on how he has represented Canada internationally has dropped 16 points since October 2017, while the assessment of how he has handled other issues has been fairly constant.

But it takes more than a bad bhangra-dancing blunder to transition from lionized to ludicrous. It suggests something is going on that the polling hasn’t yet identified clearly.

Bruce Anderson, the Abacus chairman and a Canadian polling veteran, said he has noticed a “rising frustration” with the cost of living that is particularly acute in large cities, where the cost of housing has become a pain point.

“It seems especially noticeable for young people who are either rent- or mortgage-stressed, and who find it limiting their ability to enjoy other things in life,” he said.

This has not yet manifested itself in their political choices, but he noted it could have major implications for policies like carbon taxation and pharmacare.

The government appears to be alive to the prospect that its relentless proselytizing on progressive issues like gender and the environment has tried the patience of people who voted Liberal in 2015, but who now feel their wages are stagnating while their expenses are snowballing, with the government not doing much to help.

Funny that it could be a trip to India that sinks the LPC.

Maybe stay home next time?

He's losing young people,  people who will either vote NDP or greens or just stay home.

As long as the Conservatives don't touch legal weed they will ditch the liberals en mass and that makes for a easy win for scheer.

[Lumber]

I don't know... We were talking about this at work today. I have feeling for the parties and their platforms themselves which are different from the leaders that would lead the executive. Right now, I feel like even though Trudeau is losing popularity, the liberal party and their 337 other MPs are more enticing as a whole than Andrew Sheer and the CPC.

I like the CPC more than Trudeau (right now), but I like the liberal party way more than I like Sheer.

This may be a silly way of looking at things, but then again Politics is silly business.

[ModlrMike]

... the liberal party and their 337 other MPs ...

You do realize that there are only 338 total seats in the house?

[Lumber]

You do realize that there are only 338 total seats in the house?

Yes...

Sorry, I meant total candidates. Elected MPs and everyone else who ran but didn't win.

[Altair]

I don't know... We were talking about this at work today. I have feeling for the parties and their platforms themselves which are different from the leaders that would lead the executive. Right now, I feel like even though Trudeau is losing popularity, the liberal party and their 337 other MPs are more enticing as a whole than Andrew Sheer and the CPC.

I like the CPC more than Trudeau (right now), but I like the liberal party way more than I like Sheer.

This may be a silly way of looking at things, but then again Politics is silly business.

Yes, but how many people vote for the leader versus their individual MP?

[jollyjacktar]

With any luck Mr. Dressup will be moving to Stornaway in 19.  Or better still, Montreal.

[pbi]

Yes, but how many people vote for the leader versus their individual MP?

Good question. As I mentioned earlier, my reasons for going Liberal in the last Federal election had very little or nothing to do with Trudeau. I was never really certain about him from the get-go, but my other reasons outweighed that.

Now, I'm not so sure anymore, at all. He continues to disappoint and demonstrate lack of depth.

No doubt personalities of leaders have a big effect in voting: I think we live in an age of very superficial thinking, where image and noise are more important for many people than serious critical thinking about issues. An attractive, attention-grabbing leader can attract votes, even if there is little or no substance behind them. A less flashy leader may have the best judgement and the soundest policies but still not stand a chance.

[Journeyman]

.....my reasons for going Liberal in the last Federal election had very little or nothing to do with Trudeau.

Interesting. We're in the same riding, and our Liberal candidate/member was a much  better choice than the other options, yet I cast my vote solely against his party because of Trudeau. I feel vindicated on an almost daily basis.

I think we live in an age of very superficial thinking, where image and noise are more important for many people than serious critical thinking about issues.

  Often, superficial to the point of absence when discussing politics/economics.  Pavlov, and his dog, should have been political theorists.

[Jarnhamar]

Interesting. We're in the same riding, and our Liberal candidate/member was a much  better choice than the other options, yet I cast my vote solely against his party because of Trudeau. I feel vindicated on an almost daily basis.

Myself as well. My local liberal candidate was a really cool guy, pro firearms, wanted a smart and thoughtful approach to immigration and a few other key points for me. Liked him a lot. More than the Conservative candidate. I couldn't justify voting for him if it meant Trudeau getting elected though.

[Remius]

So the shine is coming of the PM (much sooner than I thought I must admit) and the polls seem to be reflecting that.  Still plenty of time to get through it or to make it worse.  Given the PMOs lacklustre ability to manage damage control and poor judgement calls I think it will actually get worse.

That being said, I never thought that Scheer stood a chance and to be frank I still believe Trudeau will win the next election (likely a minority though).

But...

What would happen if Mr. Scheer wins or even if he manages to get the Trudeau Liberals into a weak minority situation?  I can't see him stepping down even in the latter scenario.  This would certainly foil the plans of many conservatives who were waiting in the wings thinking that Scheer would lose and step down.

[FJAG]

Just to complete my prior post on the Ontario Human Rights Code, the Canadian Human Rights Code and the Criminal Code in their most recent amendment (assented to June 19th, 2017) added "gender identity or expression" to it's list of prohibited grounds and hate crimes:

An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code
S.C. 2017, c. 13

Assented to 2017-06-19

An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code

SUMMARY
This enactment amends the Canadian Human Rights Act to add gender identity and gender expression to the list of prohibited grounds of discrimination.

The enactment also amends the Criminal Code to extend the protection against hate propaganda set out in that Act to any section of the public that is distinguished by gender identity or expression and to clearly set out that evidence that an offence was motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on gender identity or expression constitutes an aggravating circumstance that a court must take into consideration when it imposes a sentence.

Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate and House of Commons of Canada, enacts as follows:

R.S., c. H-6
Canadian Human Rights Act
Marginal note:
1998, c. 9, s. 9; 2012, c. 1, s. 137(E)
1 Section 2 of the Canadian Human Rights Act is replaced by the following:

Marginal note:Purpose
2 The purpose of this Act is to extend the laws in Canada to give effect, within the purview of matters coming within the legislative authority of Parliament, to the principle that all individuals should have an opportunity equal with other individuals to make for themselves the lives that they are able and wish to have and to have their needs accommodated, consistent with their duties and obligations as members of society, without being hindered in or prevented from doing so by discriminatory practices based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, marital status, family status, disability or conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted or in respect of which a record suspension has been ordered.

Marginal note:
1996, c. 14, s. 2; 2012, c. 1, s. 138(E)
2 Subsection 3(1) of the Act is replaced by the following:

Marginal note:Prohibited grounds of discrimination
3 (1) For all purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted or in respect of which a record suspension has been ordered.

R.S., c. C-46
Criminal Code
Marginal note:
2014, c. 31, s. 12
3 Subsection 318(4) of the Criminal Code is replaced by the following:

Marginal note:Definition of identifiable group
(4) In this section, identifiable group means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, national or ethnic origin, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or mental or physical disability.

Marginal note:
1995, c. 22, s. 6
4 Subparagraph 718.2(a)(i) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(i) evidence that the offence was motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression, or on any other similar factor,

 

[Lumber]

Just to complete my prior post on the Ontario Human Rights Code, the Canadian Human Rights Code and the Criminal Code in their most recent amendment (assented to June 19th, 2017) added "gender identity or expression" to it's list of prohibited grounds and hate crimes:

 

Right, that's pretty clear, you can't discriminate against someone based on their gender identity or expression, and I'm behind that 100%.

Is it considered discriminatory, though, to refuse to use someone's preferred pronoun?

Rude; yes. That's like the course instructor choosing to call you Sally because he doesn't want to have to pronounce Zalachenko every time you F*** up. Is that considered discriminatory?

I'm not making a point, I'm legitimately asking. If someone informed me, after calling them "Sir" that they preferred to be call "Mx", I'd oblige. If the guy I was standing next to said "screw that, you look like a Sir, I'm calling you Sir", I'd call that guy and ******* and think less of him, but I'm not convinced, yet, that that should be a human rights violation.

[Good2Golf]

...or, use the person's name, not a pronoun. 

[Loachman]

"It" - The original gender-neutral pronoun.