Author Topic: Politics in 2018  (Read 95649 times)

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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1225 on: April 12, 2018, 23:09:46 »
You mean, when neither Premier was in Ottawa? Seems ineffective to me.

On a related topic, do you  voluntarily forgo your short days before and after TD trips and exercises?

You mean when the future of Confederation is at stake? To head off a constitutional crisis?

I might give up a short day to handle that...

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1226 on: April 13, 2018, 07:48:43 »
You mean, when neither Premier was in Ottawa? Seems ineffective to me.

On a related topic, do you  voluntarily forgo your short days before and after TD trips and exercises?
You think those Premiers wouldn't have been in Ottawa if asked? Or met the PM in Sask when he was there inn the weekend?

I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the days I've been to work on a leave day. Or the unit shorts/stats/weekends worked without asking for ETO.

Probably too much to ask our Prime Minister to lead by example during a major crisis.

Offline MCG

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1227 on: April 13, 2018, 12:45:42 »
You think those Premiers wouldn't have been in Ottawa if asked? Or met the PM in Sask when he was there inn the weekend?
I am sure Notley would have been on a plane in an instant for this, but Horgan knows not being rushed is to his benefit and as a general rule premiers do not coming running when a prime minister snaps his fingers.  So, no.  I do not think anything necessarily would have happened should because the PM summoned them.  I would not assume that an invitation was not sent either.  In fact, that “personal day” was probably one of the dates that was discussed as the three leaders and their offices coordinated a meeting.  I don’t think Canadians would have looked too kindly upon this meeting being placed on the margins of the Humboldt vigil, but I don’t know that options were not discussed to make something work during that weekend.

The place he really skipped his opportunity/obligation was before KM even announced its current deadline.  His pipeline solidarity tour through Alberta & BC (like his earlier steel and aluminium solidarity tour) was a photo-op and campaigning-never-stops trip.  Why, when he was out on the mission to resolve the pipeline dispute, did he not conduct the meeting with the two people empowered to end it?

I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the days I've been to work on a leave day. Or the unit shorts/stats/weekends worked without asking for ETO.
I have no doubt that the PM could say the same thing.  Unlike the PM, you don't have an army of media and people on the internet bemoaning your scheduled day off while being oblivious to the work you are actually doing outside the view of watchful cameras.

[Pedantic aside: there is no such thing as "ETO" or “CTO” in the CAF.  You can use short for that purpose, and there is special relocation if the worked days were within a long enough period of travel]

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1228 on: April 13, 2018, 15:03:51 »
I have no doubt that the PM could say the same thing.  Unlike the PM, you don't have an army of media and people on the internet bemoaning your scheduled day off while being oblivious to the work you are actually doing outside the view of watchful cameras.

Unlike any PM (but seems to be this one more so than many of his predecessors) we also don't have the taxpayers swanning us and our families all over the globe at government expense,  the housing and other perks (solid gold pension etc) that come with the job.  He asked for the job as any of them do and thus if you want the slot then you can do the overtime that comes with it too.  I don't have too much pity (at the overtime) those political masters we have in the various institutions they inhabit may have to put in.
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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1229 on: April 13, 2018, 17:13:31 »
He must have time. He's seldom in the House. :whistle:
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1230 on: April 13, 2018, 17:51:49 »
Quote
...When Conservative MPs like Michael Chong and Brent Rathgeber went up against their own government during the Harper years, the murmurs from the inside generally weren’t that these guys were secretly adored as heroes. They were offside from consensus.

But when it comes to Trudeau, most Liberals you speak to in confidence will nod in agreement with critics from within the Liberal family.

It all seems to come down to respect. As one senior Liberal recently described it to me, the infighting during the Chretien-Martin era was about power. No one ever doubted the credentials of either man. That’s not the case with today’s grumblings. There’s a serious respect issue brewing, one that’s no doubt getting worse after the India mess.

http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/furey-a-growing-number-of-liberals-are-coming-out-of-the-woodwork-to-criticize-trudeau
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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1231 on: April 16, 2018, 12:36:27 »
Had the CPC allowed more internal opposition and criticism,they might still be in power. As for the Libs, they have a few respected Elders trying to hold the shitshow together. That's what you get when you buy something based on the paint job and not the mechanical bits.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1232 on: April 17, 2018, 11:50:20 »
A bit off topic.

I was recently told by someone that the company who makes our disastrous boots were on the list of party donators to the Liberals. Is there a way to verify that?
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1233 on: April 17, 2018, 12:17:33 »
I'm genetically programmed to despise the NDP and all that it stands for, however, this latest move by Notley shows some very non-NDPish realpolitik.

Quote
Bill 12, titled Preserving Canada's Economic Prosperity Act, gives the Alberta government the ability to retaliate against B.C. over any delays to the expansion by driving up gas prices or restricting shipments of other energy products.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-oil-gas-producers-support-notley-government-bill-12-1.4622717

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1234 on: April 17, 2018, 12:25:44 »
She has had to change her tune since becoming the bandmaster in the last election.  It's interesting to see two Dippers tearing into each other like this.

 :pop:
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Online PPCLI Guy

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1235 on: April 17, 2018, 13:11:41 »
A bit off topic.

I was recently told by someone that the company who makes our disastrous boots were on the list of party donators to the Liberals. Is there a way to verify that?

This is, indeed, searchable.  Here are all the corporate donors in Quebec who contributed to the Liberal Party.  Keep in mind that there are severe limitations on corporate donations in Canada...

http://www.elections.ca/WPAPPS/WPF/EN/CCS/ContributionReport?returnStatus=1&reportOption=5&queryId=bef12a6d202c4123b274373f9c9abe34&sortDirection=asc&sortOrder=0%2C1%2C2&totalRecordFound=1178&current200Page=1&total200Pages=6&reportExists=True&displaySorting=True
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1236 on: April 17, 2018, 13:23:51 »
Thanks a lot. I tried searching a bit but wasn't coming up with anything.
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Offline whiskey601

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1237 on: April 17, 2018, 13:43:50 »
I'm genetically programmed to despise the NDP and all that it stands for, however, this latest move by Notley shows some very non-NDPish realpolitik.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-oil-gas-producers-support-notley-government-bill-12-1.4622717

 :cheers:
Interestingly they are going about in the form of a licensing scheme for pipeline operators with a $10 million per day fine for corporate non-compliance.  BC says they will challenge the legislation in court, and it would be interesting to see if Alberta even bothers respond to that.   All of the operators could possibly voluntarily stop feeding oil into the existing pipelines by not renewing supply contracts.  Start shipping more south by rail... Mr. Trudeau has possibly triggered a constitutional earthquake in several dimensions. Good one JT.       

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1238 on: April 17, 2018, 15:01:35 »
It's a true popcorn moment watching a death match between 2 NDP governments and a centre-left Federal government run by enviro-clown over an oil pipeline. 

Offline Altair

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1239 on: April 17, 2018, 15:55:16 »
It's a true popcorn moment watching a death match between 2 NDP governments and a centre-left Federal government run by enviro-clown over an oil pipeline.
it really is.

I like it for it shows how much trouble the NDP is.

This civil war has been brewing for some time now,  the labour side of the party and the environmental fanatics.

Now you have the two NDP camps in open economic warfare and the federal NDP has pretty much tried to keep their head down.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Jed

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1240 on: April 17, 2018, 16:37:01 »
it really is.

I like it for it shows how much trouble the NDP is.

This civil war has been brewing for some time now,  the labour side of the party and the environmental fanatics.

Now you have the two NDP camps in open economic warfare and the federal NDP has pretty much tried to keep their head down.

Yep, a real live clown show. But it just isn’t funny.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1241 on: April 17, 2018, 18:58:34 »
This is, indeed, searchable.  Here are all the corporate donors in Quebec who contributed to the Liberal Party.  Keep in mind that there are severe limitations on corporate donations in Canada...

http://www.elections.ca/WPAPPS/WPF/EN/CCS/ContributionReport?returnStatus=1&reportOption=5&queryId=bef12a6d202c4123b274373f9c9abe34&sortDirection=asc&sortOrder=0%2C1%2C2&totalRecordFound=1178&current200Page=1&total200Pages=6&reportExists=True&displaySorting=True

The National Post recently created a searchable database where you can do the same thing, but for both Federal and Provincial. You can search by either the recipient or the donor.

http://special.nationalpost.com/follow-the-money/feature
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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1242 on: April 18, 2018, 23:38:59 »
Three socialists sit down in a room to discuss the economy. No punchline, that’s the joke.
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Offline Altair

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1243 on: April 19, 2018, 03:23:38 »
Had he kept all, or even most, promises (and I truly hope that he does not, and that he has no opportunity to do so after 2019), then I would also take that as an indicator that he is more likely to keep others. Past performance, you see.

Has anybody actually said "will break" in this context? I'm not bothering to go back and look. On the balance of probabilities, however, and given that letting pipelines proceed, or, especially, over-ruling BC, would cost him more votes than he would gain from Alberta, I doubt that he would - willingly and happily - force the issue. I expect him to delay and waffle until the company gives up in frustration.

You're the one saying
I, and others, lack your confidence in that "will".

It may happen. I won't say that it won't. He may become the Country's biggest pipeline enthusiast.

I'd not bet upon that, however, and neither should you.

It is hard to predict people with absolute accuracy.
I thought of this as I watched the news and saw Greenpeace protesters with a Crudeau oil pipeline mock up in London.

What a difference a few months make.

In the pocket of oil companies to the left,  anti pipeline alberta hater to the right,  I guess he's walking the middle ground of compromise.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 03:37:52 by Altair »
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline CBH99

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1244 on: April 19, 2018, 05:32:56 »
While she may be applauded for "bold leadership" against this "monumental challenge"...<cough>... I think Notley lost a lot of votes over how she conducted herself in this situation as a whole, specifically targeting the 'civilian population' if you will in order to ensure her own political goals are met.

I'm not debating whether the pipeline needs to be expanded or not.


But instead of keeping this a 'government to government' issue...she continues to target the lower to middle class residents of BC.  First, she limited the amount of wine that BC could export to Alberta.  This had a very real affect on small, family owned businesses including wineries, liquor stores, transport businesses, etc.

Now she wants to make gas so unbelievably expensive, that the residents of BC will FORCE their government to concede if for no other reason than people are going broke over just trying to drive to work, drive their kids around, and live normal lives.


I'm all for tough measures if governments disagree and, for some reason, can't come up with a solution that both parties can accept.  But deliberately making the lives of fellow Canadians difficult, and making them suffer financially - especially when it's the lower to middle class that will be affected the most - isn't very noble, honourable, or Canadian.

Canadian provincial governments should not be deliberately targeting & financially hurting other Canadians, just because they happen to reside in a different province.

As someone who lives in Alberta, I have absolutely zero motivation to see average people in BC suffering due to a political dispute.  It's one of the most un-Canadian things I can think of, and I know from discussing this around the water cooler, I'm not the only one that feels that way.

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Offline GR66

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1245 on: April 19, 2018, 06:57:51 »
And what exactly is BC’s attempt to stop the pipeline doing to the citizens of Alberta?

Taking away the ability to ship Albertan oil lowers the price per barrel they get, lowers the total volume they can sell, reduces investment in the industry, reduces the tax income received by the government thus reducing the services they can provide.

Blocking the pipeline is directly attacking the financial livelihood of every Albertan. Notley is simply retaliating in kind to what BC has started.

I don’t live in Alberta, but I imagine most of your fellow Albertans don’t share your sympathy with your BC neighbours when they are effectively crippling your economy.

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1246 on: April 19, 2018, 09:25:03 »
This whole pipeline fiasco is something that should have never even evolved in a modern, first world country.

The blame can be laid in equal measures at the feet of politicians at both the federal and provincial levels of government who listen to dogmatic, extremist activists rather than ordinary voters.

If polls are to be believed, more than half of British Columbians want to see the pipeline built. That number has actually increased in the past month.

John Horgan (BC premier) is no dummy. I believe he knows that he has not got a constitutional leg to stand in opposing the pipeline. But, he owes his very survival as premier to the Green Party. And they are absolutely beyond reason on the subject of petroleum products.

Rachel Notley is also no dummy. She knows that this is probably the last pipeline that will ever get built in Canada. If it fails, she is politically finished. She sold the oil industry the line that if they played ball on carbon pricing, the environmental movement would give them a pass on shipping oil. Unfortunately for her (and everyone else) the environmentalists in BC are a bunch of dogmatic absolutists and professional protestors who cannot see that they have largely won the war. By forcing Alberta in a corner, they are going to trigger a backlash.

If Alberta throttles petroleum shipments to BC, it will be an unholy mess and BC will grind to a halt inside of a week. There is no real infrastructure on the west coast to ship in refined petroleum from the US or abroad in any quantity. Not that there is much surplus supply to be had on the west coast of North America.

I do not wish to see a petroleum embargo come to pass, as tempers are high enough and none of this is good for Confederation (sidebar- why is there always a constitutional crisis when a Trudeau is the PM?). But if it does, maybe it would be instructive, if only to remind the average citizen just how reliant they are on petroleum and not to believe the Green Party that Canada can dump oil consumption, tomorrow.

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1247 on: April 19, 2018, 10:25:11 »
Meanwhile the Lax, a Northern Indian band that is suing the government on the oil tanker ban, is in talks to build a oil terminal at Hyder Alaska, about 3 km from Stewart BC. Life is never dull here. Currently I am reviewing a fuel bunkering facility, a Bulk liquid fuel facility, an LPG facility, with another LPG facility coming in. I just finished a smaller LPG loading facility, all in Prince Rupert. It also seems LNGCanada is closing in on a FID in Kitimat, fingers crossed.   

Online Rifleman62

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1248 on: April 19, 2018, 10:33:33 »
CBH99:
Quote
I'm all for tough measures if governments disagree and, for some reason, can't come up with a solution that both parties can accept.  But deliberately making the lives of fellow Canadians difficult, and making them suffer financially - especially when it's the lower to middle class that will be affected the most - isn't very noble, honourable, or Canadian.

Canadian provincial governments should not be deliberately targeting & financially hurting other Canadians, just because they happen to reside in a different province.

I live in BC now, the Okanagan Valley. What the government of BC is doing is targeting Canada. Where do you think the equalization payments paid to 'have not" provinces come from in part? How do you think that revenue is generated? Have you read how much AB oil is discounted? Have you read how much tax revenue and how much the Canadian economy loses because we cannot get our products to other markets? Also, Quebec supports BC's position and stopped the Energy East project.

Have you heard of the BC Speculation Tax (https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FIN0009-000501) ? 1% for Canadian citizens and permanent residents who do not live in British Columbia. Thus if you are from e.g. Alberta and own a vacation or future retirement home in Kelowna, besides annual property taxes on your $700K house you will pay annually an additional $7000.

A lot of Albertans own houses in the OK valley. A $700K house is not a luxury property. Of course, to the NDP, nobody should own two properties. Tax the rich, (unlike the federal Liberals tax anything and everything and spend, spend, spend).

I hope AB shuts off POL to BC.
,
http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/morton-equalization-payments-have-always-been-about-keeping-quebec-happy

Morton: Equalization payments have always been about keeping Quebec happy
- 7 Apr 18

Extract: In 2018-19, equalization payments will rise to a new high of $19 billion. Sixty-two per cent will go to Quebec, while Alberta taxpayers will contribute about $3 billion. This amount is actually only a portion of approximately $20 billion of net federal transfers out of Alberta this year. Two other federal programs — the Canada Health Transfer and Canada Social Transfer — have a transfer effect. The same is true for federal benefit programs such as employment insurance, Old Age Security and the Canada Pension Plan.

Each year, Albertans collectively pay in much more in that we receive back. Understanding the transfer effects of these other federal programs explains how it is that between 2007 and 2015, Alberta’s net contribution to the federal government was $221 billion, or an average of over $24 billion a year.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada

Quebec will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2018-2019 year.[1] However, per capita, PEI benefits the most.

In the 2018–2019 year, the following provinces will receive equalization payments:[1]

Quebec ($11.732 billion)
Manitoba ($2.037 billion)
Nova Scotia ($1.933 billion)
New Brunswick ($1.874 billion)
Ontario ($963 million)
Prince Edward Island ($419 million)
Equalization per citizens 2016-2017

Provinces / Per Citizen / Total

PEI / $2,573 / $380 million
NB / $2,259 / $1.708 billion
NS / $1,822 / $1.722 billion
Manitoba / $1,328 / $1.736 billion
Quebec / $1,206 / $10.03 billion
Ontario / $166 / $2.304 billion
Source: Government of Canada (http://blogues.radio-canada.ca/geraldfillion/tag/perequation/)

The following provinces will not qualify for equalization payments in 2018–2019:[1]

Alberta
British Columbia
Newfoundland and Labrador
Saskatchewan
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 10:45:18 by Rifleman62 »
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Politics in 2018
« Reply #1249 on: April 19, 2018, 10:53:45 »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/colten-boushie-family-united-nations-study-systemic-racism-1.4625818

Sorry to distract you from your pipeline debate...

I feel like I would get crucified if I shared on Facebook the following comments, but I am honestly getting extremely frustrated with the way this case has blow up. It irked me enough I felt the need to share my thoughts here.

I honestly feel somewhat embarrassed for the country at some of the comments that Boushie's family just made to the UN. Maybe I'm putting too much stock into their presence at a UN forum, but I feel like what they said about Canada and our justice system are just not true, and is therefore embarrassing to be said in front of the whole UN. One line in particular:

Quote
"Colten was not a thief. He was a kind and generous young man," she told the forum."

I read the entire judges decision. A "thief" is exactly how I would describe Colten Boushie, at least on the day of the incident. Could you come to any other conclusion if you actually read the facts of the case?

Another quote:

Quote
"The systemic injustices, the acquittal and the decision not to appeal show that justice is not equally applied to Indigenous people in Canada."

The whole thing, but specifically the part in yellow, does not demonstrate discrimination in the justice system. It simply shows that the prosecution was not able to provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the trial was conducted without any errors, eliminating the possibility of an appeal. Again, read the judgment.

Perhaps it's the fact that I'm a white cis-gendered male from an upper-middle class family of European ancestry who's never had to deal with discrimination or poverty, but I feel like I'm a pretty good critical thinker, and I see absolutely no reason case necessitating a UN investigation, a Royal Commission, and an overhaul of our criminal justice system.

Final note, I'm getting tired of being referred to as a "settler" or a "colonist". I was born here. My parents were born here. All of my family was born here. I don't have any close relatives in the "old" country, and that's only on one side of the family, the rest have been here for 3 hundred years.

I don't know any other home than here, this is my home. Stop grouping me with those who showed up 300 years ago to sell bibles and buy beaver pelts.

/endrant
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