Author Topic: Drugs thread - previous use, testing, etc..[MERGED]  (Read 573369 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1150 on: November 27, 2016, 10:11:48 »
.........  However, the CAF cannot break the law and start testing because it makes sense...

The CAF has been found exempt from certain Canadian Laws and Regulations under Federal Legislations.  Take UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE as one such example. 
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline Seize

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1152 on: November 28, 2016, 05:50:59 »
Because it's illegal?  Anonymous testing does happen but individual testing requires reasonable doubt and a bunch of hoops to jump through.

http://www.rbs.ca/newsroom-publications-Employee-Drug-Alcohol-Testing-Canada.html

ok so if blind random testing is illegal. why can't they do drug testing on all of us when we are enrolling ? ? weed out all the potheads etc

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1153 on: November 28, 2016, 08:06:47 »
ok so if blind random testing is illegal. why can't they do drug testing on all of us when we are enrolling ? ? weed out all the potheads etc

Quite possibly due to the cost involved.  I don't imagine there's many institutions that do drug testing during the hiring process.

So, Seize, did you finally get in the CF or is this just sour grapes?
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
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Offline mariomike

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« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 08:39:48 by mariomike »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1155 on: November 28, 2016, 09:03:05 »
Quite possibly due to the cost involved.  I don't imagine there's many institutions that do drug testing during the hiring process.

So, Seize, did you finally get in the CF or is this just sour grapes?

additionally,  applicants aren't yet members of the CAF, so things like the DAOD above wouldn't apply to them yet.
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1156 on: November 28, 2016, 09:18:44 »
additionally,  applicants aren't yet members of the CAF, so things like the DAOD above wouldn't apply to them yet.

True.  :nod:
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
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Offline Seize

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1157 on: November 29, 2016, 12:20:39 »
Quite possibly due to the cost involved.  I don't imagine there's many institutions that do drug testing during the hiring process.

So, Seize, did you finally get in the CF or is this just sour grapes?

I'm in the CF now. and i've worked at jobs where drug testing was mandatory

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1158 on: November 30, 2016, 12:23:21 »
I'm in the CF now. and i've worked at jobs where drug testing was mandatory

Then read the DAOD i linked earlier in the thread.  Blind testing is legal;  my Wing did it this past fall IAW CAF policy detailed in the DAOD.
Everything happens for a reason.

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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1159 on: November 30, 2016, 12:56:56 »
I'm in the CF now. and i've worked at jobs where drug testing was mandatory

Prior to hiring or after? Makes a big difference....
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
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Offline Seize

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1160 on: November 30, 2016, 17:26:09 »
Prior to hiring or after? Makes a big difference....

It was prior

unleashex

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1161 on: November 30, 2016, 19:14:59 »
Hi. A couple weeks back is when I started to fill out forms to enter the CAF reserves and I got as far as getting an appointment
for the aptitude and physical test at the last week of january. Point is I want to make is that I recently stopped smoking, cold turkeying
both weed and ciggarettes prior to becoming an applicant. Reading pages after pages makes me think maybe I should call my recruiter
to cancel my application because i have not met the requirements and it makes me reflect on what I've done baddly because it tells me
I have not been dedicated 6 months sober, so I can't deem myself worthy to join the army. Could I postpone my application for another 6months?
Or if I cancel my application to come back 6 months after will I be reflected poorly on my file? If its possible to know if I'd be able to continue where
I left off through the procedure? Or maybe its better to keep on going through the procedure until I've been told to wait for another 6 months?

unleashex

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1162 on: December 01, 2016, 09:14:46 »
Hi. A couple weeks back is when I started to fill out forms to enter the CAF reserves and I got as far as getting an appointment
for the aptitude and physical test at the last week of january. Point is I want to make is that I recently stopped smoking, cold turkeying
both weed and ciggarettes prior to becoming an applicant. Reading pages after pages makes me think maybe I should call my recruiter
to cancel my application because i have not met the requirements and it makes me reflect on what I've done baddly because it tells me
I have not been dedicated 6 months sober, so I can't deem myself worthy to join the army. Could I postpone my application for another 6months?
Or if I cancel my application to come back 6 months after will I be reflected poorly on my file? If its possible to know if I'd be able to continue where
I left off through the procedure? Or maybe its better to keep on going through the procedure until I've been told to wait for another 6 months?
My apologies for adding another post but i think i had just answered my own questions. Thank you, cheers.

Offline Seize

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1163 on: December 04, 2016, 12:03:30 »
Then read the DAOD i linked earlier in the thread.  Blind testing is legal;  my Wing did it this past fall IAW CAF policy detailed in the DAOD.

srry i didnt mean blind testing. i meant to say why cant they at least do random testing on ppl, or test ppl who they think may be on drugs

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1164 on: December 04, 2016, 17:20:22 »
The CAF has been found exempt from certain Canadian Laws and Regulations under Federal Legislations.  Take UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE as one such example.

Some, not all.  As it stands, random drug testing in the CAF is not allowed by law.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: how come they don't do drug testing on everyone or random drug testing?
« Reply #1165 on: December 04, 2016, 23:57:47 »
srry i didnt mean blind testing. i meant to say why cant they at least do random testing on ppl, or test ppl who they think may be on drugs

Have a read thru this DAOD I posted earlier.   http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-3.page#dd

The Canadian Forces Drug Control Program (CFDCP)

3.2 QR&O Chapter 20, Canadian Forces Drug Control Program, sets out the essential elements of the CFDCP and provides the legal authority for testing for drug use by CAF members.

5. Deterrence and Detection

General

5.1 The chain of command and individual CAF members are responsible for the deterrence and detection of prohibited drug use and other involvement with drugs by CAF members.

Range of Actions

5.3 The range of actions employed by the CAF to deter and detect prohibited drug use and other involvement with drugs, as described in detail in the Education map and other blocks, includes:
a.education;
b.CFDCP implementation;
c.individual reporting;
d.enforcement;
e.investigation;
f.notification of DMCA;
g.review of duties;
h.drug testing; and
i.other appropriate administrative or disciplinary action, or both.

Drug Testing

5.13 To monitor and detect drug use, QR&O Chapter 20 authorizes mandatory drug testing for specific purposes in defined circumstances.

5.14 DMCA shall be consulted for any clarification of drug testing under QR&O Chapter 20.

5.15 A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 sets out detailed testing procedures and standards for drug testing. Testing procedures and standards are modelled on the Mandatory Guidelines for Federal Workplace Drug Testing Programs, published by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration of the Department of Health and Human Services of the United States of America.

CO Authority to Order Testing

5.16 A CO is authorized under QR&O Chapter 20 to order any of the following drug testing:
a.QR&O article 20.10, Accident and Incident Related Testing;
b.QR&O article 20.11, Testing for Cause; and
c.QR&O article 20.12, Control Testing.

Testing for Cause

5.23 QR&O article 20.11 sets out the conditions under which a CO may order a CAF member to undergo drug testing when there are reasonable grounds to believe that the CAF member has used a prohibited drug.

5.24 The information used by the CO as the basis to decide if reasonable grounds exist to order a test for cause may come from a variety of sources.

Deterrent Testing

5.30 QR&O article 20.08 sets out the conditions under which deterrent testing may be ordered to detect CAF members using drugs contrary to QR&O article 20.04.

5.31 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on deterrent testing.

High Risk Safety Sensitive Testing

5.32 QR&O article 20.09 sets out the conditions for the testing of CAF members in any occupation or position designated by the CDS where, in the CDS's opinion, a high risk to the safety of individuals would be created if a CAF member in the occupation or position were under the influence of a drug while on duty.

5.33 Designating an occupation or position requires a balancing of the CAF's interest in safety with the CAF member's privacy interest and right to security of person. If the risk to safety in an occupation or position is high should there be prohibited drug use, the more likely that the occupation or position will be designated as safety sensitive.

5.34 When determining if an occupation or position should be designated, the CDS assesses all relevant considerations leading to a high risk to the safety of individuals (see paragraph 9 of the CDS letter dated 30 July 2007, Expansion: Safety Sensitive Drug Testing, for a list of considerations).

5.35 The CDS expects that all CAF members in designated safety sensitive occupation or position shall be tested at least once every year.

5.36 See the DMCA web site for the current list of designated occupations and positions and the list of officers who may order safety sensitive drug testing.

5.37 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on the ordering of drug testing of CAF members in designated occupations or positions.

Blind Testing

5.38 QR&O article 20.13 sets out the conditions for the ordering of a CAF member to provide a sample of urine on an anonymous basis. Such testing may be used to determine:
a.the prevalence of prohibited drug use in the CAF; and
b.the requirement for possible changes in programs or policies.

5.39 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on blind testing.

5.25 See A-AD-005-DCP/AG-000 for guidance on testing for cause.

Control Testing

5.26 QR&O article 20.12 sets out the conditions under which a CO may order a CAF member to undergo drug testing for control and the frequency of such testing.

Link to the QR & O:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-20.page

Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline fkjRxAYEDs

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Inaccurate drug use information
« Reply #1166 on: January 22, 2017, 16:36:10 »
Medical and interview coming this week. Very happy. Though I am in a sketchy situation where I denied drug use during application process. Not because I lied, but simply because I've consumed a small amount of "x drug" in the past and forgot about it.

Also do you guys think this could delay my recruitment? I don't know if the paperwork would have to be reviewed again because of this.

Any advice on how I should deal with this? Should I wait until the medical to talk about the issue? It's this Friday.

Thanks

-micro
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 16:53:16 by micro461 »

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Inaccurate drug use information
« Reply #1167 on: January 22, 2017, 16:51:03 »
Medical and interview coming this week. Very happy. Though I am in a sketchy situation where I denied drug use during application process. Not because I lied, but simply because I've consumed a small amount of "x drug" in the past and forgot about it.

Any advice on how I should deal with this? Should I wait until the medical to talk about the issue? It's this Friday.

Thanks

-micro

Just declare it, be honest.

They'd rather that than find out you withheld that information.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline mariomike

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Re: Inaccurate drug use information
« Reply #1168 on: January 22, 2017, 16:55:11 »
I've consumed a small amount of "x drug" in the past and forgot about it.

Any advice on how I should deal with this?

Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.) 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=12779.0
47 pages.

As always,  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 17:16:49 by mariomike »

Offline fkjRxAYEDs

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Re: Inaccurate drug use information
« Reply #1169 on: January 22, 2017, 17:30:09 »
Thank you for your helpful replies  :salute:

Offline Thecamman

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1170 on: February 19, 2017, 22:10:41 »
Hello everyone

I did my CFAT and passed and when it came to my drug use application, I told them everything regarding my Marijuana and alcohol use. What I did NOT tell them was my use regarding some other substance. I feel pretty bad about this (I lied to people that need to trust me) and I also don't want to get in trouble. My application was closed and set to resume in October (year long clean period). Should I tell them then or now? This use was 5+ years ago so it seems well passed any time that would prompt another (or extend the current) clean period.

Offline JesseWZ

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1171 on: February 19, 2017, 22:59:18 »
So... during your very first opportunity to prove to the Canadian Forces you are a person of honour and integrity, you chose to lie (a lie of omission is still a lie).

Ask yourself the following questions...

Why should we trust you with a weapon?
 Why should we trust you to follow orders?
Why should we accept you into our ranks?

The going wasn't even tough, and already you start with lying. When IF you are accepted, you will face much more difficult trials in your career then a simple drug questionnaire...
You had the opportunity to start with a clean slate, and now, no matter how you choose to proceed, you are a liar.

And if it were a substance other than alcohol or marihuana (ie a "hard drug") , good luck. I'm reading between the lines, but since you easily admit to other illegal drug use (marihuana), and don't wish to nail down the "other substance," I'm going to assume its pretty frowned upon. Between that and your willingness to lie to cover it up, I'd say we are better off without you.

But by all means, continue your application...  I strongly encourage you to pony up an ounce of courage and tell the recruiters you lied, and what substances you actually consumed.
I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard...

Offline Thecamman

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1172 on: February 19, 2017, 23:08:54 »
And if it were a substance other than alcohol or marihuana (ie a "hard drug") , good luck. I'm reading between the lines, but since you easily admit to other illegal drug use (marihuana), and don't wish to nail down the "other substance," I'm going to assume its pretty frowned upon. Between that and your willingness to lie to cover it up, I'd say we are better off without you.

But by all means, continue your application...  I strongly encourage you to pony up an ounce of courage and tell the recruiters you lied, and what substances you actually consumed.

The other drugs were LSA (a really weak form of LSD), Salvia, and Mushrooms.

I'm not sure if this is considered "hard". I guess was concerned about coming off as some chemical tweaking guy. I do plan to reveal this information. Thank you for your response.

Offline MedCorps

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1173 on: February 20, 2017, 12:56:46 »
The other drugs were LSA (a really weak form of LSD), Salvia, and Mushrooms.

I'm not sure if this is considered "hard". I guess was concerned about coming off as some chemical tweaking guy. I do plan to reveal this information. Thank you for your response.

I think it is important to remember that the staff at the CFRC are experts at what they do.  They get a sound amount of training in drugs and society and then gain experience every time they conduct an applicant interview. They know the difference between someone who has experimented with drugs and is honest and up front about reasons for use and time since last use and the person who is the "chemical tweaking guy". They also after working in the CFRC for sometime have a pretty good BS detector.

One of my good friends worked the CFRC in Ottawa and if I ever suspected my son was on drugs and was being dishonest with me I would bring her over to the house for dinner for some cross the dinner table casual conversation (read: targeted interrogation).

MC



 

Offline Thecamman

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Re: Merged drugs thread (previous use, testing, etc.)
« Reply #1174 on: February 20, 2017, 15:24:09 »
I think it is important to remember that the staff at the CFRC are experts at what they do.  They get a sound amount of training in drugs and society and then gain experience every time they conduct an applicant interview. They know the difference between someone who has experimented with drugs and is honest and up front about reasons for use and time since last use and the person who is the "chemical tweaking guy". They also after working in the CFRC for sometime have a pretty good BS detector.

One of my good friends worked the CFRC in Ottawa and if I ever suspected my son was on drugs and was being dishonest with me I would bring her over to the house for dinner for some cross the dinner table casual conversation (read: targeted interrogation).

MC



 

Thank you for the insight. It appears I was afraid of nothing. I don't know what my fate will be when I tell the recruiter, but hopefully there will be mercy. If not, well then it is what it is I suppose.