Author Topic: The US Presidency 2018  (Read 38907 times)

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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #150 on: July 08, 2018, 14:15:36 »
But his regime is legitimate, in the sense that he has a solid grip on power in North Korea.

He may be an odious, tryannical  beast of a human being, but I don't think too many people question who is in charge up there.

The same was true of the Taliban.....and ISIS in its caliphate
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Online Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #151 on: July 08, 2018, 14:17:43 »
The same was true of the Taliban.....and ISIS in its caliphate

Or Castro, or Mugabe etc etc
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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #152 on: July 08, 2018, 15:27:50 »
Being in charge does not equate to legitimacy.  On the international stage NK is isolated with limited trade and diplomatic relations. 

Meeting with the Trump gave them a perception of more legitimacy. It's what they wanted and what they got.  He got the US to stop their exercise, got them to pull more troops from Seoul and a beautiful photo op and Trump saying wonderful things about Kim and bought more time.  The US got nothing in return. 

What was touted as one of his signature accomplishments will likely go down as a blunder. 

Remember that the DKPR thinks it is the legitimate government of all of the Koreas.

Sorry guys, you can't sugar coat this or brush it off as nothing.

Who said I was sugar coating anything? Re-read what I wrote.

If one intends on negotiating with North Korea, I am simply positing that one has no choice but to negotiate with Kim.

I make no comment on how effective this round on negotiations has been.

Offline kkwd

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #153 on: July 08, 2018, 19:52:19 »
According to rumours President Trump is not a legitimate president in the view of much of the world. Then how can he giving legitimacy to a regime if he is not legitimate himself?
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #154 on: July 08, 2018, 19:59:54 »
Quote from: Remius

This article from CNN explains it quite well.



I read the article, thanks for taking the time to find and post it.

I'm still left with the question of "so what?".

While I don't think the meeting actually afforded him any legitimacy let's say it does. So what?  Nothing changed in his regime. He's still a tyrant that revels in bs stories like him flying planes and all the other propaganda.
Does it change his prestige on the world stage? Not at all. If anything he looks like even more of a dick.

US presidents have been kicking the North Korea can down the road for how many years? 65 years?
Sanction after sanction and they're only getting more dangerous.
Trump gets elected and has some harsh talk for Korea and what are people's response? Panic. They accuse him of starting ww3.
Trump changes tact, meets with him, officers some crap up and how do people react? Trump's weak and a horrible negotiator.
North Korea **ucks off their end of the deal and how to people react? Criticism and ridicule for Trump.

Personally I think the US is in a better position now than they have ever been. They made concessions and NK blew smoke in their face. US is in a stronger position to roll in and use force.

If you ask me about crap that shouldn't have been offered to the North Koreans its letting them attend the Olympics.  31 years ago an agent from NK put a bomb on a plane murdering 115 passengers in a bid to stop the Olympics.  Crazy.






According to rumours President Trump is not a legitimate president in the view of much of the world. Then how can he giving legitimacy to a regime if he is not legitimate himself?

 :rofl:
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 20:49:57 by Jarnhamar »
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Online Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #155 on: July 08, 2018, 20:56:41 »

The problem is that NK wants to also be treated as a legitimate nuclear power.  Buying time and and having Trump play up to this helped their cause.

It could be that now the only option is one of force.  And that will be a bloody mess.

Oh and good luck getting any support given the way he’s dropping allies. 

Trump said he would know in the first five minutes how to read Kim. How did that work out?

Kim is in a much stronger position now and the US has egg on its face. 

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Offline recceguy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #156 on: July 09, 2018, 00:04:02 »

Sorry guys, you can't sugar coat this or brush it off as nothing.

Nor can you just pull out a magic eight ball and make definitive statements without being involved or know what the future will bring. Speculation doesn't  mean right, it's simply your individual thoughts

I'm just spitballin' here, but I don't think Trump's team puts much credence in your points.

People just can't stand the fact that he might be doing something right. You are entitled to your thoughts, but I think I'll wait for the results before trying to decide whether his initiative was worth it or not. Or who did what. On the diplomatic front, you can't make a judgement from one meeting of the leaders. Sometimes these things take years.

At least he's trying to move things forward as opposed to the likes of Obama paying blackmail money to Kim and doing nothing.


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Online Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #157 on: July 09, 2018, 08:18:58 »
I'm just spitballin' here, but I don't think Trump's team puts much credence in your points.

People just can't stand the fact that he might be doing something right. You are entitled to your thoughts, but I think I'll wait for the results before trying to decide whether his initiative was worth it or not. Or who did what. On the diplomatic front, you can't make a judgement from one meeting of the leaders. Sometimes these things take years.

At least he's trying to move things forward as opposed to the likes of Obama paying blackmail money to Kim and doing nothing.

You mean Trump doesn't come here and read my opinions or thoughts?  Wow, I'm hurt.  ::)

Blackmail money?  I'm curious what that would be.  No argument here that previous guys have not really done much.  I just think that Trump has accelerated things in the wrong direction.

Actually I was a supporter of his get tougher approach to NK.  I'm even in favour of him taking a diplomatic approach.  But this was Diplomacy by Trump.  Personality driven with little to show for.  Photo ops and propaganda for Kim.

There is a reason Presidents don't start negotiations themselves.  But now for better or for ill he is the face of this.

And yes it can take years.  Kim is banking on that...
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #158 on: July 09, 2018, 09:49:46 »
People just can't stand the fact that he might be doing something right. You are entitled to your thoughts, but I think I'll wait for the results before trying to decide whether his initiative was worth it or not. Or who did what. On the diplomatic front, you can't make a judgement from one meeting of the leaders. Sometimes these things take years.

That sounds entirely reasonable.

How about we apply this new approach to discussions in threads about Canadian politics....
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Offline Altair

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #159 on: July 09, 2018, 11:28:23 »
That sounds entirely reasonable.

How about we apply this new approach to discussions in threads about Canadian politics....
:rofl:

Wouldn't that be something.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #160 on: July 09, 2018, 17:42:26 »
That sounds entirely reasonable.

How about we apply this new approach to discussions in threads about Canadian politics....

Sure, no problem. Still, I doubt it'll give you the clarity you wish. People being people, I doubt it's possible.

Besides, sometimes a trainwreck, especially with our PM, tends to happen quickly and is often over quickly. No long term observation required. Same thing stateside

I can't seem to equate Trudeau's groping and lying to international peace talks though.

That, and if we want to have a contest on which leader is the biggest clown, one only need look to Trump in Singapore and Trudeau in India for comparison.

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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #161 on: July 09, 2018, 18:40:17 »
The DPRK has all the legitimacy it needs, courtesy of its membership in the UN - at least to everyone who believes the UN is a primary font of legitimacy for all things international.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #162 on: July 12, 2018, 16:59:19 »
President Trump continues to effect change in the domestic front, in this case he is working to reform the US Bureaucracy:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/under-new-management-trumps-fresh-eyes-sparks-massive-federal-reform

Quote
Under New Management: Trump's ‘fresh eyes’ sparks massive federal reform
by Paul Bedard
July 09, 2018 09:09 AM

President Trump is taking charge of his administration’s effort to reform the federal government and workforce, the biggest demonstration yet that Washington is under new management.

Aides describe the president as personally invested in the 32-point plan to shake the bureaucracy out of a 1950s model based on secretarial pools.

“So much of the ability to drive change requires a fresh perspective,” said Margaret Weichert, an author of the recently announced reform blueprint and deputy director for management at the Office of Management and Budget.

“It’s frequently why I, as a management consultant, was brought into an organization to consult on issues like this because fresh eyes and people who don’t have a stake in the status quo very often can see things differently than the people who are of that organization or institution. And that was a major theme in the last election, that people were effectively hiring a businessman to try to change business as usual in Washington,” she said in an interview.

Trimming and reeducating the workforce, combining federal agencies and eliminating overlapping services won’t be easy and Trump’s team are bracing for a bruising fight with bureaucrats, federal employee unions and lawmakers.

But it is one that Trump is approaching like he did many of his business challenges, setting the overall goals and then promoting them.

“He gets involved in the high level conceptual framing of it and then when we pull together the proposals,” said Weichert.

[snip]

“We are serious about top down change. It cannot all happen at once, it can’t certainly happen by fiat, but when you look at where we are at in 2018 two decades into the 21st century and you pair that with a bureaucratic infrastructure that was very well aligned to the needs of the post-World War II era, it’s so clear there’s a mismatch,” said Weichert, adding, “If now isn’t the time to get traction on this, I don’t know when is. We have to get serious about making change happen.”

Legislation has already been introduced to begin making Trump’s reforms, headlined by a plan to revamp the federal workforce, reform IT and add automation, and combine the Education and Labor departments so that schools can focus more on filling the nation’s skills gap like some European school systems do.

Changing the bureaucracy is likely the biggest challenge any Administration will ever face, so it will be interesting to see the process and the results.

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #163 on: July 12, 2018, 18:49:11 »

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #164 on: July 12, 2018, 20:55:31 »

He only got there today?  I'm sure that I saw photos of him in London days ago . . . . .



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Offline Colin P

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #165 on: July 13, 2018, 13:00:33 »
Nice stunt for a media masturbation fest. I chuckle at the idea Trump has made the NK situation worse, the experts allowed NK nuke program to proceed mostly unhindered, did little when the NK sunk a SK patrol vessel, shelling inhabited islands, along with decades of other misadventures. Kim's antics at the border were between the SK leader and Kim, that was SK doing what SK thought best. If NK fails to follow through with the agreement, I suspect your going to see a major squeeze on NK and possible some peripheral military action (taking out a sub, remote outposts, etc) if required.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #166 on: July 13, 2018, 15:46:26 »
He only got there today?  I'm sure that I saw photos of him in London days ago . . . . .





$30'000 to fly that bad boy 20 feet off the ground for 2 hours lol
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Offline beirnini

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #167 on: July 17, 2018, 07:16:45 »
Let's see if we can avoid criticizing the messenger and address the message, shall we?

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #168 on: July 17, 2018, 07:53:06 »
Because this doesn’t fit into the “US Presidency 2018” thread? ???

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #169 on: July 17, 2018, 08:43:05 »
Rachael Maddow AND Maxine Waters?

Why would anyone criticize those messengers lol
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Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #170 on: July 17, 2018, 09:08:20 »
Curious to know what professed Trump supporters have to say about his (some say treasonous) comments yesterday about Russia and his own intelligence agencies.


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Offline Altair

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #171 on: July 17, 2018, 09:20:16 »
Curious to know what professed Trump supporters have to say about his (some say treasonous) comments yesterday about Russia and his own intelligence agencies.


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I just know what they would have said had Obama said the exact same thing. He would be selling out America, weak, a coward and a traitor.

Somehow the current President is a hero.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 09:22:54 by Altair »
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Online Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #172 on: July 17, 2018, 09:38:26 »
I just know what they would have said had Obama said the exact same thing. He would be selling out America, weak, a coward and a traitor.

Somehow the current President is a hero.

"Wait and see" seems to be the current thing. 

Putin got exactly what he wanted.  A President not willing to call him on anything.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #173 on: July 17, 2018, 09:58:52 »
Traitor for trying to make the US safer ?Reprehensible comments.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #174 on: July 17, 2018, 10:10:12 »
"Wait and see" seems to be the current thing. 

Putin got exactly what he wanted.  A President not willing to call him on anything.
Putin got called out for years by the international community, hasn't changed a thing he does. I somehow think Putin will do what he wants whether the US President is on board or not.