Author Topic: The US Presidency 2018  (Read 49596 times)

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Offline Infanteer

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #500 on: September 06, 2018, 08:06:32 »
As it should be.  Regardless of one's political outlook, that kind of disloyalty is toxic and anathema to the good governance.  There are proper and legal ways to oppose legal authority, but such blatant obstructionism (sedition is probably too strong of a word) is not one of them.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 08:10:58 by Infanteer »
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #501 on: September 06, 2018, 08:44:34 »
"13 people who might be the author of The New York Times op-ed"
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/05/politics/donald-trump-mystery-op-ed/index.html

Or, none of the above.

 

Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #502 on: September 06, 2018, 09:55:45 »
The book and this op-ed are timed to influence the mid terms.  My feelings are the op-ed is fake and from what I know of the book I feel it is probably greatly exaggerated if not all complete BS.

I'm bracing for more gigantic scandalous releases between now and November...  ::) 

 

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #503 on: September 06, 2018, 10:07:51 »
Must be the Russians again!

Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #504 on: September 06, 2018, 10:41:42 »
The book and this op-ed are timed to influence the mid terms.  My feelings are the op-ed is fake and from what I know of the book I feel it is probably greatly exaggerated if not all complete BS.

I'm bracing for more gigantic scandalous releases between now and November...  ::) 


You are likely spot on as far as the mid terms are concerned.  I'm curious, given the author's reputation though (Pulitzer prize winner, stellar reputation etc) why you would think it is complete BS?
Optio

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #505 on: September 06, 2018, 11:05:02 »
You are likely spot on as far as the mid terms are concerned.  I'm curious, given the author's reputation though (Pulitzer prize winner, stellar reputation etc) why you would think it is complete BS?

Political bias and extreme polarization ?
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Offline Brihard

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #506 on: September 06, 2018, 11:21:18 »
Political bias and extreme polarization ?

Woodward has gone after administrations of both parties. If he was easily tarred as some rabid democrat we'd have seen it already.

As for the NYT piece- I think they're smart enough to know that fabricating and publishing such an Op Ed would be an absolute disaster if the fabrication leaked, which it would. I find it more likely that someone within the administration is in fact disaffected enough to have written than. A bunch of the various insider accounts that have emerged of the current white house corroborate the general feel and attitudes within the present administration. I'm going with Occam's razor on this one.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Sandyson

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #507 on: September 06, 2018, 14:28:56 »
I find difficult to believe that Generals Kelly or Mattis would give their personal opinion of their President to any but their most intimate.  They have too much experience operating successfully in military circles such as the Pentagon.
As for Woodward: "Kindred subscribes to the triumphant school of Bob Woodward evangelism and thinks that Woodward and Carl Bernstein were the precursors of the great, crusading, truth-seeking reporting that, with Watergate, brought on a golden era of investigative journalism.  He does not mention Woodward's book Veil, where the author simply invented a hospital-deathbed interview with former CIA director William Casey, nor the wild exaggerations of the Watergate literature that claimed Woodward and Bernstien feared for their physical safety while reporting the crisis." {C Black in A House that Murdoch Bought, National Post Nov/Dec 2010 review of D Kindred's (Wash. Post) Kingdom & the Power.}
I can think of very little good to say about the image of Trump which we receive via the media. Nevertheless I question these attributions to Kelly and Mattis, and therefore the source.

Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #508 on: September 06, 2018, 14:35:47 »
Mattis and Kelly have both vehemently denied this. 

Offline Brihard

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #509 on: September 06, 2018, 14:43:14 »
Mattis and Kelly have both vehemently denied this.

As, of course, they must, or they instantly lose their jobs and any ability to keep things in check. I don't really know what to believe.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #510 on: September 06, 2018, 15:00:06 »
As, of course, they must, or they instantly lose their jobs and any ability to keep things in check. I don't really know what to believe.

Mattis and Kelly are both good soldiers and will act accordingly.  They would probably resign rather than write an OP ED so I doubt they did that.   but one thing is certain, this administration is unravelling exponentially at this point.
Optio

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #511 on: September 06, 2018, 17:08:40 »
As it should be.  Regardless of one's political outlook, that kind of disloyalty is toxic and anathema to the good governance.  There are proper and legal ways to oppose legal authority, but such blatant obstructionism (sedition is probably too strong of a word) is not one of them.

It seems to me that the article lends credence to the notion of the Executive Staff being personally loyal to the President.  The checks and balances are programmed into the system to work externally to the Executive Office.  That probably doesn't extend to the Attorney General but should likely extend to his Chief of Staff and the typists.

The Civil Servants have just demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to be neutral.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Infanteer

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"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #513 on: September 06, 2018, 18:14:43 »
We're not totally free from this either.

https://www.cpsa-acsp.ca/papers-2011/Jeffrey.pdf

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/yes-minister-no-more-todays-bureaucrats-have-a-different-attitude/article26551463/

Pace Yakabuski 2015 - Thanks Infanteer.

Quote
...This view is echoed in a March article in Optimum Online, a public-sector management journal that Prof. Paquet edits. The article, by a senior Ottawa-based policy analyst using a pseudonym, asserts that "many senior federal public servants [develop] a conviction that they are better guardians of basic values of our democracy than elected officials. While this attitude had to be somewhat tamed while they were on active duty, it has become fully unleashed in retirement."

The author goes on: "This has naturally generated a flow of self-righteous condemnation of current government policies by many newly unencumbered retired senior officials, and has thereby provided immense moral support for those senior public servants still in active duty – former colleagues and friends – to heighten their own passive (or semi-active) opposition to the elected government from within. As a result, the corridor of what has come to be regarded as tolerable disloyalty from within would appear to have widened considerably."...
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Online whiskey601

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #514 on: September 06, 2018, 18:27:12 »
... being employed in a form of the public service, I can say without a doubt there is a definite and substantial bias in favour of socialist ideology. To the extent that correlates with the "Liberals" is anybody's guess.

This stinging quote about the Harper Government (TM) from the Jeffrey article provided by Infanteer was an eyebrow raiser:
"This Canadian version of the Maoist cultural revolution, in which expertise is routinely derided in favour of anecdotal evidence, has arguably introduced an entirely new element into the already tense relationship between the Conservative politicians and their bureaucrats."

Where are the bodies?

Offline Journeyman

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #515 on: September 06, 2018, 21:59:22 »
"This Canadian version of the Maoist cultural revolution, in which expertise is routinely derided in favour of anecdotal evidence, has arguably introduced an entirely new element into the already tense relationship between the Conservative politicians and their bureaucrats."

While it certainly seems odd to post this in a 'US Presidency' thread, especially on this site, I recommend Tom Nichols' The Death of Expertise: The Campaign Against Established Knowledge and Why it Matters  (2017)  Amazon Link

Online whiskey601

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #516 on: September 07, 2018, 13:07:41 »
While it certainly seems odd to post this in a 'US Presidency' thread, especially on this site, I recommend Tom Nichols' The Death of Expertise: The Campaign Against Established Knowledge and Why it Matters  (2017)  Amazon Link

Oh I think that book is quite appropriate for the US President 2018 thread.
Ordered the book.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #517 on: September 13, 2018, 13:39:43 »
Temporarily breaking my Trump moratorium to drop this awesome story.

Professor shoots himself in the arm to protest Trump.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/report-las-vegas-professor-shot-himself-in-arm-to-protest-trump/


The Trump presidency is bringing out some interesting American views.

Ironically the professor didn't have a licence to possess the gun  ::)
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Offline FJAG

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #518 on: September 13, 2018, 20:33:57 »
In a more traditional form of protest, Admiral McRaven has resigned from the Pentagon's Defence Innovation Board.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/13/politics/mcraven-pentagon-advisory-board-trump/index.html

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #519 on: September 13, 2018, 22:01:50 »
In a more traditional form of protest, Admiral McRaven has resigned from the Pentagon's Defence Innovation Board.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/13/politics/mcraven-pentagon-advisory-board-trump/index.html
Unlike many in the growing circus that is "politics," Bill McRaven was widely respected for his integrity, intellect, and willingness to compromise when required as a 'team player.'
Shame it came to this.   :not-again:

Offline FJAG

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #520 on: September 28, 2018, 23:43:59 »
Quote
U.S. Drops To 27th In The World For Education And Health Care
In 1990, the U.S. was ranked sixth in “human capital,” based on a person’s expected productive years of work. Now it’s 27th.

The United States is ranked 27th globally on education and health care, a new study based on 2016 data reports.

The study, organized by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington, seeks to identify “the number of productive years an individual in each country can be expected to work between the ages of 20 to 64,” based on education and health care. This number is referred to as the “human capital” of a nation’s people.

America’s human capital measurement is 23 years, that’s the amount of time a person can be expected to work at peak productivity when accounting for life expectancy, general health and education. The U.S. ranked sixth in the world in 1990, and the drop apparently took researchers by surprise.

“The decline of human capital in the United States was one of the biggest surprises in our study,” said Dr. Christopher Murray, director of IHME.

The study shows that China has had the opposite trajectory since 1990, going from 69th in the world to 44th.

. . .

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/whelp-the-us-now-ranks-27th-in-the-world-on-education-and-healthcare_us_5bae5d02e4b0425e3c23508f

http://www.healthdata.org/results/country-profiles

And that's based on statistics from before Trump took office and started to dismantle and degrade two already stressed systems.

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Online Colin P

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #521 on: September 29, 2018, 19:36:14 »
As i recall the US Federal government has little role in education, it being a State responsibility?

Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #522 on: September 29, 2018, 19:52:22 »
As i recall the US Federal government has little role in education, it being a State responsibility?

For reference to the discussion,

United States Secretary of Education
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Education
"This Secretary deals with federal influence over education policy, and heads the United States Department of Education."

U.S. Department of Education
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/om/fs_po/osods/office.html
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 08:06:03 by mariomike »

Online Colin P

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #523 on: October 03, 2018, 11:36:48 »
Thanks, but reviewing those links, it appears their main role is ensuring that institutions of higher learning meet the criteria for federal funding. There are a couple of Acts mentioned, with lots of gushing about Obama, seems the US gov is not as good as the Canadian about purging previous government records.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: The US Presidency 2018
« Reply #524 on: October 04, 2018, 08:19:02 »
….seems the US gov is not as good as the Canadian about purging previous government records.
Is it possible that, rather than some politicized conspiracy, Obama simply took a more active interest in education than his successor (thus providing something to write about)?