Author Topic: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0  (Read 195848 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #750 on: March 31, 2020, 13:31:42 »
What are politicians doing about all the mass shootings and drastic increase in "gun crime" after unprecedented amounts of guns and ammo have been bought across Canada due to the corona virus panic?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 13:47:39 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline LittleBlackDevil

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #751 on: April 17, 2020, 22:13:15 »
What are politicians doing about all the mass shootings and drastic increase in "gun crime" after unprecedented amounts of guns and ammo have been bought across Canada due to the corona virus panic?

Yeah, funny how society hasn't dissolved into complete anarchy and violence with all the gun and ammo sales.

It's crazy, I can't find 5.56 anywhere, aside from a few boxes of the really really expensive stuff. I went to Canadian Tire a few weeks ago and bought their last few boxes of 12 Guage 00 Buck. The "hunting is the only legitimate reason to own firearms" type working the counter was fit to be tied and vented freely to me about "why is everyone buying this stuff? People are idiots". I decided to just keep my peace and took my ammo.

I have also found it very interesting to see some attitudes change. Chatting with a couple police officers (again a few weeks ago, before complete lockdown and social distancing -- i.e. when you could still have conversations with people not of your own household) about how the police are scaling back their enforcement of crime due to COVID-19 concerns. A young lady who was hitherto a "no one needs guns" sort, said "maybe I should get a gun" and the officers just kind of quietly nodded without saying anything. I guarantee 60 days ago that would conversation would have never happened.

Offline CBH99

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #752 on: April 17, 2020, 22:45:41 »
What are politicians doing about all the mass shootings and drastic increase in "gun crime" after unprecedented amounts of guns and ammo have been bought across Canada due to the corona virus panic?


I'm not being sarcastic here at all.  Has their been a dramatic increase in mass shootings and gun crime? 

Honest question.  I've tried to tune the news out of late, and usually just come here to read articles posted by members.  The non-stop nonsense of the mainstream media has finally driven me to ignore them almost completely.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #753 on: April 18, 2020, 07:35:42 »
Not at all. There was a toilet paper style buying frenzie on ammo and some stores even sold out of guns.

Government still says they want to go ahead with banning a certian style of firearm that "science based evidence" as Trudeau loves saying, doesn't indicate are used in more shootings.
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Online Brad Sallows

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #754 on: April 18, 2020, 12:52:38 »
>Has their been a dramatic increase in mass shootings and gun crime?

Not yet, but many more people than usual are under severe stress.  But the stress is the root of problems, not the guns.
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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #755 on: April 18, 2020, 21:04:47 »
>Has their been a dramatic increase in mass shootings and gun crime?

Not yet, but many more people than usual are under severe stress.  But the stress is the root of problems, not the guns.


You say "not yet" like it's an inevitability, wouldn't a simple "no" have done?
'
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Online Brad Sallows

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #756 on: April 18, 2020, 22:40:47 »
Unfortunately, I think it's a possibility (not an inevitability).  My answer combines "no" with "but it might".
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

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Offline LittleBlackDevil

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #758 on: April 20, 2020, 15:44:03 »
 I wonder if we will see a ban on civilian owned police uniforms, auctioned police vehicles and lights/sirens to go with the assault weapons.
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Offline MCG

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #759 on: April 21, 2020, 08:07:02 »
Trudeau wasting no time whatsoever to capitalize on the tragedy in NS:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/nova-scotia-shootings-trudeau-gun-control-wortman-rcmp/2020/04/20/dbc54d40-829e-11ea-81a3-9690c9881111_story.html
If you watch the interview, he was responding to a question from a reporter asking if gun control would be increased in response to the shooting.  He opened by correctly noting that it was too soon to speculate on specific reactions or decisions that should/could stem from these recent killings.   

Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #760 on: April 21, 2020, 08:19:38 »
.... civilian owned police uniforms...

Like the dark blue work pants and work shirts worn by mechanics and other tradespeople every day?  I can see maybe some type of ban on the sale of Police/LE insignia and memorabilia.

FWIW the ban on military-style semi automatics, (then, when the Liberals saw the pushback against that was manageable, all semi automatics, then handguns) was going to happen no matter what.  COVID -19 just pushed it to the right for a while.  This event has brought it back out in front.  What remains to be seen now is whether the advertised buyback will still be in place or will it be deemed too expensive or marketed as "taking money away from essential healthcare"?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 10:33:19 by Haggis »
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #761 on: April 21, 2020, 11:08:22 »
I imagine imagery like this is having an effect on anti-gun thinking.


Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #762 on: April 21, 2020, 11:45:15 »
I imagine imagery like this is having an effect on anti-gun thinking.

indeed, because anti-gun activists conveniently draw parallels between the American NRA, who condone these displays (even if legal, they are wholly inappropriate IMO) and the Canadian pro-gun "NRA-like" groups (CSSA, CCFR, NFA).

This may sound callous, but what made this latest attack so successful was not the firearm(s) used, but that the attacker posed as a trusted public figure to close with and engage his victims who had their guard completely down.  Even a "prepper" type would have likely let their guard down had they been approached by a uniformed officer showing no threat cues.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #763 on: April 21, 2020, 11:52:18 »
This may sound callous, but what made this latest attack so successful was not the firearm(s) used, but that the attacker posed as a trusted public figure to close with and engage his victims who had their guard completely down. 

Quote
Mar 30, 2020

Fake Police Are Pulling Drivers Over During The Stay-At-Home Directive. Here’s How To Avoid Being A Victim

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshmax/2020/03/30/fake-police-are-pulling-drivers-over-during-stay-at-home-directiveheres-how-to-get-around-it/#188dfdbc34d3
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline CloudCover

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #764 on: April 21, 2020, 11:56:02 »
That there is a constitutional right 2A "right" to bear loaded arms with ammunition on display with the intent to intimidate, communicate malice or encourage rebellion against public health and safety is a stretch. If 4 guys from the US chapter of MFA showed up on the steps of the State Legislature with all that iron for the simple purpose of protesting, they would shot full of holes even if the only thing they were doing is affirming their 2A rights.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #765 on: April 21, 2020, 12:00:35 »
That there is a constitutional right 2A "right" to bear loaded arms with ammunition on display with the intent to intimidate, communicate malice or encourage rebellion against public health and safety is a stretch. If 4 guys from the US chapter of MFA showed up on the steps of the State Legislature with all that iron for the simple purpose of protesting, they would shot full of holes even if the only thing they were doing is affirming their 2A rights.

What is MFA and what state legislature are you referring to?
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Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #766 on: April 21, 2020, 12:20:45 »
Quote
Fake Police Are Pulling Drivers Over During The Stay-At-Home Directive. Here’s How To Avoid Being A Victim

This guy went way beyond what these good ole boys were trying to do.  My guess is some people will think twice before pulling over for police now for fear of a copycat.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #767 on: April 21, 2020, 12:23:57 »
My guess is some people will think twice before pulling over for police now for fear of a copycat.

Nothing new about police impersonation.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_impersonation

Fake vehicle: The imposter places police lights (these can be either permanently mounted onto the car or temporary lights magnetically attached to the cartop), decals, siren, or other equipment on a personal vehicle to disguise it as a police car and enable the offender to pass through red traffic lights, bypass traffic other non-emergency traffic would have to wait for, make traffic stops, or even arrests.

We had unmarked Crown Vic's ( aka "cottage cars" ) with the police interceptor package where I used to work. They had little flashing red lights mounted into the outside mirrors. And a siren behind the grill.

I never heard of them being used for nefarious purposes. But, I noticed people tended to slow down when they saw you in their rear-view mirrors.  :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 12:37:59 by mariomike »
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Offline ballz

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #768 on: April 21, 2020, 13:11:41 »
the attacker posed as a trusted public figure to close with and engage his victims who had their guard completely down.

This aspect of it has occupied my thoughts on this whole thing the most. They would have been completely helpless, unsuspecting, and vulnerable. Many of the victims died thinking they had been betrayed by our RCMP officers, and they'll never know the truth. What a horrifying last thought... :'(

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Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #769 on: April 21, 2020, 13:24:57 »
We had unmarked Crown Vic's ( aka "cottage cars" ) with the police interceptor package where I used to work. They had little flashing red lights mounted into the outside mirrors. And a siren behind the grill.
We still have unmarked Crown Vics at work, too  They are used for training and ferry duty.  People are reluctant to pass them on the highway.

I never heard of them being used for nefarious purposes. But, I noticed people tended to slow down when they saw you in their rear-view mirrors.  :)
Up until last summer, I had a dark blue Impala with an amateur radio installation, so it had a trunk mounted antenna. I would park on the boulevard in front of my house just to slow certain idiots down.
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Offline LittleBlackDevil

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #770 on: April 23, 2020, 10:23:17 »
So, the murderer in NS did not have a PAL or RPAL, the firearm(s) used in his mass-murder were illegally obtained. Strengthening firearms laws and confiscating those owned lawfully by citizens vetted under the current system would not have prevented this tragedy:

https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/3a83av/nova-scotia-gunman-was-not-a-legal-firearms-owner-rcmp-says

I note the same article says he had an assault conviction from 2001. He may well have had an outright firearms prohibition as a result, not just a lack a PAL/RPAL.

So how does this "reinforce the need for stricter gun control" per Trudeau?

Do we even know what sort of firearm this guy used? I haven't been able to find anything on that. They are of course targeting black guns over this, but was he even using one?

Offline Remius

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #771 on: April 23, 2020, 11:21:19 »
Low hanging fruit.  Easier to ban guns than address the actual issue.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #772 on: April 23, 2020, 12:02:45 »
I wasn't surprised the Prime Minister immediately talked about his platform on gun control instead of waiting to comment. There's little solace in the revelation that it looks like shooter didn't have a PAL. I think that little fact will be lost on a lot of people.

It's sad it's such a politically charged topic. The bodies weren't even fully counted before usual groups [Canadian Doctors for Protection From Guns, PolySeSouvient, the Coalition for Gun Control, Danforth Families for Safe Communities etc..] started penning letters calling for more gun control.
Or to be honest, usual gun owners/enthusiasts started whining about losing their guns and the government banning them.

Without knowing all the facts, just from what does seem to be known, the type of gun used looks to probably be irrelevant. It seems like the victims were in 2's and 3's. Compounded by the fact he was in uniform so his victims were completely unaware.  This case is an example why getting hung up on gun types, looks, magazine capacity, accessories, "military style" is useless. The emphasis on "military style" is really stupid.
It sounds like any sort of "hunting" gun could have been used. Like my great grandfathers 6-round level action Winchester that I own which was registered with the RCMP 80 years ago.

Not that I support the notion, but anything short of banning ALL civilian firearm ownership in Canada is deflection and bandied solutions. Which of course is even mitigated if the shooter sources their gun from the US.



« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 12:05:29 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #773 on: April 23, 2020, 12:33:07 »
I imagine imagery like this is having an effect on anti-gun thinking.



Those guys look like dipshits and aren't helping the image of firearm owners.

They're probably pretty harmless though.

The sad irony is that one of Canada's worst mass-murderers most likely dressed like this for work every day.

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #774 on: April 23, 2020, 17:44:50 »
More details released that he had a handgun, rifle and shotgun even though he had no license. Started shooting people after an argument with his girlfriend and escalated from there.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6858994/nova-scotia-shootings-gunman-attacked-girlfriend/?fbclid=IwAR3ruI_mG4i564ezKbpmPwV7pvvfJTVUKenOwzAcrmY4VIIgppyYpp-NOmc

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