Author Topic: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0  (Read 57258 times)

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #450 on: May 11, 2019, 11:44:14 »
The only reason I can see them doing that is to try and bait the worst out of some people, and it's working.
On CGN, I see people working  on theories that they have not enough time left in their lives to let anyone take their weaps. I get the sentiment, but I think it's too much Hollywood and not enough pragmatism. Why anyone would think the high ground would be to operationalize this to fighting words let alone fighting sentiment is beyond me. It's just property and a certain construct of "rights", and the deprivation thereof does not amount to property in weapons = the DNA of their life, or anyone else.

I think allot people talk a big game but when actually faced with violent civil disobedience the vast majority will cower and peacefully surrender their firearms.

The thing with firearms arms debates in Canada is that the Liberals and other left leaning parties really have nothing to lose with bans and confiscations.

Our numbers are too small and we are more or less mostly right leaning folks.  So it wouldn't hurt the poll numbers.

In fact I think it would work in their favor.  The average Canadian is apathetic to just about everything that doesn't immediately effect them negatively or get in the way of hockey night in Canada, and they aren't firearms owners.   Lastly they have a negative opinion of firearms and believe there is a gun problem in this country.

Just look at the Kingston city council vote. 
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #451 on: May 11, 2019, 12:04:10 »
Just remember, there are no property rights in Canada. Remember also who's bright idea that was.


Regarding the first part of your statement I refer to what The Constitution Act of 1867 has to say on the matter:

Quote
EXCLUSIVE POWERS OF PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURES

92.    In each Province the Legislature may exclusively make Laws in relation to Matters coming within the Classes of Subjects next hereinafter enumerated; that is to say,
        .
        .
        13. Property and Civil Rights in the Province.

Also, from the Supreme Court of Canada in its ruling in Harrison v. Carswell, [1976] 2 S.C.R. 200 Date: 1975-06-26

Quote
(page 201) Anglo-Canadian jurisprudence has traditionally recognized, as a fundamental freedom, the right of the individual to the enjoyment of property and the right not to be deprived thereof, or any interest therein, save by due process of law.

Whether federal responsibility for regulating firearms overrides provincial responsibility for property rights and whether an OIC would constitute "due process" I'll leave up the legal experts.

As for the second part of your statement, I take it you are placing the blame on PM Pierre Trudeau, when the actual guilty person was Roy Romanow, Sask. Attorney General.

Anyone looking for further reading of Canadian property rights can check out these sites:

PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE CONSTITUTION

Property Law (The Canadian Encyclopedia)

Are property rights protected in Canadian law?

Sorry for the hijack. Back to regular programming.


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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #452 on: May 11, 2019, 12:28:56 »
Bottom line is that you can sit back, do nothing and wait until June.

This government will do what it wants, no matter what the populous thinks or wants.

You can worry a hole in your guts till then or sit back and wait to see what happens.

Civil disobedience to the previous laws was fairly widespread with people refusing to register their firearms.

Once the requirement got dropped, even more vowed to never again let the government know what property they hold.

Quebec is the most draconian in the country for self established gun laws.

They also have the highest incidence of non compliance.

The law will be ineffective and only useful for scoring political points, depending of course whether it happens or not and what kind of dictatorial powers the PM decides to exercise.

This could/ could not become a defining moment in civil disobedience and far outweigh whatever points he thought he could gather.

The anti gun squad on Parliament Hill is really just a well connected, vocal minority of bleating folks that roll out Armageddon for the benefit of the liberal party's tactics of demonization and deflection of the less organised, uninterested and feeble response from the gun lobby that far outweighs the concern of the left.

Whatever is planned, will probably take place in whatever form they decide. They'll talk about concensus and overwhelming support of the majority of Canadians, but it'll just be another lie from the liberals to force their agenda.

Bottom line is we don't know what's happening. A couple of rumours, well placed or not. That's not enough to get upset about......yet. We need to see what they roll out, then there will be serious thought among individuals, who will seek out like minded others to become a larger force. With luck this will be the incident that galvanizes everyone in the country concerned with overreach of government and property rights.

But again, until we see what he says when he gets all grandiose and pompous during the speech to women and virtue signals the world, there is no sense getting wrapped around the axle about what may or may not happen.

Any firearm owner that didn't see this coming and didn't make contingencies to ensure their property would be somewhat safe until the liberals are defeated has only themselves to blame and will likely be the same people that meekly turn over their property with all the woe is me whimpering that'll come with it. They'll gather in garages, have a couple of beers, grouse about trudeau, ***** about their losses, then go home and watch Jimmy Fallon.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #453 on: May 17, 2019, 09:13:26 »
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-gun-buyback-screw-up

In the Toronto police's attempt to brag about the success of their gun buyback program they posted personal information about at least one of the individuals turning in guns. This puts them at an increased risk to be targeted by thieves and probably harassment from anti-gun SJWs.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #454 on: May 17, 2019, 10:55:01 »
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-gun-buyback-screw-up

In the Toronto police's attempt to brag about the success of their gun buyback program they posted personal information about at least one of the individuals turning in guns. This puts them at an increased risk to be targeted by thieves and probably harassment from anti-gun SJWs.

Good thing all those Webleys are coming off the street!  Those things are without a doubt THE ubiquitous gang piece!

:not-again:

Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #455 on: May 19, 2019, 09:20:39 »
Even though it a long weekend, Minister Blair is keeping the gun ban possibility very much alive..  However, if one reads between the lines one could surmise that anything AR-15 like is probably doomed in June with all other semi-automatics and handguns to follow during their next mandate.
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #456 on: May 19, 2019, 09:34:28 »
Even though it a long weekend, Minister Blair is keeping the gun ban possibility very much alive..  However, if one reads between the lines one could surmise that anything AR-15 like is probably doomed in June with all other semi-automatics and handguns to follow during their next mandate.


Gun bans ~ real bans ~ are likely keys to winning many urban ridings in October.

35% of Canadians live in three cities:

Toronto     ~ population 5.9 Million;
Montreal    ~ population 4.0 Million; and
Vancouver ~ population 2.4 Million.

Of course, some of those voters are in "close" suburbs" but many, something like 100 of the 338 seats in the Commons are really "urban" and in those ridings gun ownership is low and gun ownership is often seen as a problem, not as a right.

I'm not predicting anything ... just saying why Bill Blair is not saying anything that gun owners want to hear.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #457 on: May 19, 2019, 09:45:48 »
Gun bans ~ real bans ~ are likely keys to winning many urban ridings in October.

Edward, you may not be predicting anything, but I earlier posted a quote from a Liberal strategist that predicted gun bans as an "untapped opportunity" to boost Liberal fortunes.  Any bans announced in June may well push Liberal poll numbers back into majority territory.  But I also believe those numbers will fall once the Liberals start to open their mouths and speak to a stable or increasing violent crime rate post ban.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #458 on: May 19, 2019, 17:28:16 »
May have posted this from. The gun blog
Quote
-10-20 million. Guns owned by individual Canadian hunters, farmers, collectors, recreational shooters and competitors. (Adding in government agencies, military and police would add less than 0.5 million.)
-2.2 million. Canadian men and women with gun licences. (30 June 2018)
-833,000. Pistols, revolvers, AR-15 rifles and other “Restricted” firearms owned by private individuals at 30 June 2018. (All guns are tightly restricted. Including businesses and museums, ownership is higher.)
-443,000. Canadians prohibited by courts from owning firearms (2017)
-90,000. Canadians (mainly police, law-enforcement and military) allowed or required to carry loaded guns in daily life for personal and public safety.
-10,000. Canadian youth aged 12-17 with licences to use, but not buy, firearms.
-4,500. Firearm and ammunition businesses in Canada. (Roughly 1,500 are licensed to sell firearms.)
-1,400. Target-shooting ranges in Canada. About the same as the number of hospitals.
-1,000. New firearms legally bought in Canada each day. (Plus about 1,000 used firearms.)
-1,000. New handguns, AR-15 rifles and other “Restricted” firearms bought in Canada each week.

Some target ranges charge over $1000.a year for members-and people pay it.
A good number of those 4500 business's would go under if pistols and ARs were banned.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #459 on: May 20, 2019, 11:22:52 »
All semantics and conjecture until the shoe drops. It'll be what it is.

People have had fair warning, if they haven't taken steps by now, to secure or dispose of the rumoured items, they have nobody to blame.

I know, at least, five people that have called the CFO in the last week, and had their AR registrations changed to lower receiver only. The CFO has been, surprisingly, cordial, efficient and happy to help. It's a small move that may save you thousands, depending on your holdings. If you haven't made that call....... :dunno:


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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline ballz

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #460 on: May 20, 2019, 13:26:31 »
I think I need a lawyer to interpret it, but I think Bill C-71 has built into it that if you own a restricted firearm and it is changed to prohibited, you are then eligible for a prohibited PAL.

"Grandfathered individuals — regulations
(9) An individual is eligible to hold a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms of a prescribed class if the individual
(a) possesses one or more firearms of that class on a day that is prescribed with respect to that class;
(b) holds a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class in the circumstances prescribed with respect to that class; and
(c) was continuously the holder of a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class beginning on the day that is prescribed — or that is determined under the regulations — with respect to that class."

Tricksy Liberals, they aren't just using an OIC because they've ran out of time / are desperate, banning firearms by OIC was always their plan.....
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #461 on: May 21, 2019, 10:56:37 »
I wonder if this will create a new class of prohibs? Their original idea for prohibs was to class a number of poodle shooter pistols and their owners to 12.6. The idea was that in a couple of generations, they'd be done with prohibs by default death of the holders. If everyone that has AR types, get that 12.6 designation, they've just expanded the prohib base by thousands of people and guns....and years. The legal traffic/ market in prohibs will expand accordingly.

If they give out 12.6 that is.

If all they do, is switch the designation to 12.6, it'll make no difference to the owner. They'll still be able to take them to the range, etc just as now. Maybe they just want to be seen as tough, but it's all a word game. Prohibited 12.6 or restricted carry the same rules for transport and use, just a different class name. They get their publicity and they don't end up in a big confiscation fight with taxpayers.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 11:02:09 by Fishbone Jones »
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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #462 on: May 22, 2019, 00:55:29 »
The anti-gun lobby will see right through that, and hoist Trudeau by the nuts.
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Offline BurnDoctor

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #463 on: May 22, 2019, 00:57:31 »
The anti-gun lobby will see right through that, and hoist Trudeau by the nuts.
The mention of a specific hoist point makes an assumption that may not be accurate.

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #464 on: May 22, 2019, 01:42:04 »
Lol!!
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Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #465 on: May 22, 2019, 07:02:21 »
The anti-gun lobby will see right through that, and hoist Trudeau by the nuts.
Classy comment.


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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #466 on: May 22, 2019, 07:33:45 »

RCMP Slows Printing Gun Licences, Fuelling Speculation of Bans

15 May 2019

TheGunBlog.ca — Canada’s federal agency in charge of gun licensing everyone from hunters and farmers to Olympic shooters said it slowed printing the permits because of “technical circumstances,” fuelling speculation new firearm bans are imminent.

“Due to technical circumstances, the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) is producing firearms licence cards in a limited capacity between March 11 and June 7, 2019,” a spokeswoman for the Ottawa-based Royal Canadian Mounted Police told TheGunBlog.ca today by e-mail in response to questions.

https://thegunblog.ca/2019/05/15/rcmp-slows-printing-gun-licences-fuelling-speculation-of-bans/



The RCMP will "fix" their technical difficulties one day after the
Women Deliver conference that the Liberals are rumored to announce sweeping changes to firearm laws and ownership in Canada.

I'm sure its a coincidence.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #467 on: May 22, 2019, 19:01:31 »
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Offline Loachman

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #468 on: May 22, 2019, 19:09:23 »
Link to original...?

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #469 on: May 23, 2019, 07:15:25 »
Link to original...?

There is a link on the graphic.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #470 on: May 23, 2019, 11:59:14 »
Jesus what did John Tory do? The spike started at almost the exact moment he got elected!  :cold:
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« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 15:12:56 by QV »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #472 on: May 23, 2019, 17:55:08 »
Link to original...?

Thieved it from another site. OP is pretty solid with this stuff
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #473 on: May 27, 2019, 21:42:54 »
Time to ban bananas...
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Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
« Reply #474 on: May 28, 2019, 18:15:50 »
Bill C-71 just passed third reading in the Senate a few minutes ago.  It will receive Royal Assent tomorrow.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 18:19:41 by Haggis »
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