Poll

How much use do you make of a personal (non-government provided) cellular device to exercise C2 within your unit?

I don't.  My leadership and/or soldiers can wait for me to come in to the unit on paid time.
1 (4.3%)
A few texts, e-mails and/or calls a month.
1 (4.3%)
A few texts, e-mails and/or calls a week.
4 (17.4%)
A few texts, e-mails and/or calls a day.
6 (26.1%)
I'm in almost constant daily contact with my leadership and/or soldiers.
11 (47.8%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: May 13, 2018, 01:30:26

Author Topic: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS  (Read 13840 times)

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Offline Haggis

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MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« on: May 03, 2018, 00:30:26 »
In this connected age there is a rising expectation that leaders/managers are available and reachable 24/7.  This holds true in the CAF Reserves as well.  It's understood, at least in the Army Reserve, that effective section, troop/platoon and company/squadron leadership cannot be conducted on 3 hours a week of contact with your next level of command, particularly when filling the demands of a higher (Bde, Div) HQ generating 40 hours worth of RFIs (many of which begin or end with the phrase "regret short notice"). This seems to increase the higher you go in rank and contributes to the blurring of lines between your service and personal life. 

So, let's see if the problem is really a problem at all. The question assumes that you do not have CAF provided cellular device (either from your unit or from ERE Class B/C or civ employment within DND).  Can you effectively lead and manage your section, detachment, troop/platoon, company/squadron or unit without use of your personal cellular device?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 09:14:17 by Haggis »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 00:45:02 »
In this connected age, there is a rising expectation that leaders/managers are available and reachable 24/7.  This holds true in the CAF Reserves as well.  It's understood, at least in the Army Reserve, that effective section, troop/platoon and company/squadron leadership cannot be conducted on 3 hours a week of contact with your next level of command, particularly when filling the demands of a higher (Bde, Div) HQ generating 40 hours worth of RFIs (many of which begin or end with the phrase "regret short notice"). This seems to increase the higher you go in rank and contributes to the blurring of lines between your service and personal life. 

So, let's see if the problem is really a problem at all. The question assumes that you do not have CAF provided cellular device (either from your unit or from ERE Class B/C or civ employment within DND).  Can you effectively lead and manage your section, detachment, troop/platoon, company/squadron or unit without use of your personal cellular device?

I can get 30 to 40 emails a week from my CoC. It's absurdly onerous, and serves to disrupt normal information flow and 'weeding out' through the usual channels.
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Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 00:46:18 »
In this connected age, there is a rising expectation that leaders/managers are available and reachable 24/7.  This holds true in the CAF Reserves as well.  It's understood, at least in the Army Reserve, that effective section, troop/platoon and company/squadron leadership cannot be conducted on 3 hours a week of contact with your next level of command, particularly when filling the demands of a higher (Bde, Div) HQ generating 40 hours worth of RFIs (many of which begin or end with the phrase "regret short notice"). This seems to increase the higher you go in rank and contributes to the blurring of lines between your service and personal life. 

So, let's see if the problem is really a problem at all. The question assumes that you do not have CAF provided cellular device (either from your unit or from ERE Class B/C or civ employment within DND).  Can you effectively lead and manage your section, detachment, troop/platoon, company/squadron or unit without use of your personal cellular device?
Very difficult.


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Offline runormal

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 06:16:49 »
I'm torn of what to do. I get around 30-40 emails a week and it cuts into my day job. "Who wants this tasking, who wants to go on this tour? Response NLT 1400 today, sorry for the short first." The best is when the request was sent 3 days earlier and some in the COC "sat on it." For my efforts I'm compensated and extra half day a week, which is a terrible trade off for the amount of time.

I really don't care about the COC not providing me a blackberry, emails take minimal data, I've got unlimited texts and calls after 5pm. My bigger concern is the time it takes out of my workday/weekend. No one joined the army to get rich, but I had significantly less work to do as a detachment command instead of a section command.

My biggest issue is the strict adherence to COC to messages on the way down. There is no need for Tours/FastBalls to go from SQN OPS -> SSM -> Tp WO -> Sect Comd - Det Comd -> Det Members. I've seen this result in tours already been filled by the time we the member sees them. There is no reason why SQN Ops can't email the members directly with everyone CC'ed and then depending on the timeframe for returns say "Reply to me directly or reply directly to your Sect Comd."

However, they don't pay me to think...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 06:25:27 by runormal »

Offline Remius

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 07:03:00 »
It is a tough balancing act.  I normally try and clear/action emails first thing when I get in and at lunch and end of day before leaving.  Key word is try.  Luckily my employer is. A good supporter of the reserves.  There is also the issue of trying to do your job without access to CFTPO, ACIMS etc.  The worst is when you receive an email with reference to links in ACIMS rather than a proper attachment. 

I do way more than the half day I get for admin...
Optio

Offline Remius

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 09:32:10 »
To add, this week alone I have 91 emails in relation to my reserve work.  I'm not counting any banter style emails either in that.

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 09:49:39 »
I suppose I'm fortunate to have a DVPNI laptop for home use. None the less, that's still time I have to devote after I come home from work. By way of example I had 98 emails come to me over the course of two days. Yes, I do get paid for it, but that's not really the point. It's more about finding the extra time. On the other hand, my unit is quite good about "broadcast" emails. We get Routine Orders every month, and Night Orders twice per week. We also get any fastballs sent directly to unit members with instructions for them to reply to the Trg Dept, or other OPI as required. If members miss tasking opportunities, it's not because the unit failed to contact them in a timely manner.

As a department head, I'm usually in contact with the XO or CO several times per week by phone or text message. We try to keep things to a minimum, so I don't really mind. I suppose it comes down to the expectation the leadership team sets, and I know some of that is an attempt at pushback towards HQ. It's too easy for folks who work full time to expect us part timers to respond to emails overnight. An email sent on friday might not be seen until tuesday evening.
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Offline Mike5

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 10:00:02 »
I get several e-mails to my civvy accounts on a slow day and 10 - 20 on a busier day.  It's not the lack of pay; it's the time.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 10:00:54 »
My biggest issue is the strict adherence to COC to messages on the way down. There is no need for Tours/FastBalls to go from SQN OPS -> SSM -> Tp WO -> Sect Comd - Det Comd -> Det Members. I've seen this result in tours already been filled by the time we the member sees them. There is no reason why SQN Ops can't email the members directly with everyone CC'ed and then depending on the timeframe for returns say "Reply to me directly or reply directly to your Sect Comd."

However, they don't pay me to think...

Yes, you guys should definitely do something different. For non-routine business, and by that I mean deployments, training exercises, first aid, 404, range weekends, etc, and coursing opportunities (whether career courses or just other fun courses that come up), absolutely everything goes through our Training Officer (who is our 2nd full-time officer, Class-B, and is kind of like your OpsO/OpsWO).

Our Training Officer collects all of these different opportunities and sends out an email once a week called our "weekly employment opportunities". It's usually one page and has anywhere from 10-20 different opportunities. It could include everything from my Orderly Room requesting a couple of days of Class-A help with annual archiving and destruction, to a year long deployment aboard a RegF frigate. This email is sent to everyone's civilian emails, and they respond directly to our Training Officer, while Cc'ing their Chain of Command to make sure they are in the loop.

So, instead of having to go all the way down the CoC and all the way back, we just blast it out to everyone, and the response go straight back to the top (TrgO) with the CoC being kept informed.

Besides, technically speaking, for employment on taskings, whether Class A or B,  only our CO can "deny" a member's application to these taskings (and in some cases, even he can't), and he would only do so for a member who is in really bad standing. So, I don't see the point in going through the chain of command except to keep them informed of their members taskings. If the member wants to go on a month long naval security ex, but his Divisional PO (kind of like a section 2IC) doesn't want him to go because he's the training coordinator, well too bad, he's going.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 10:32:34 by Lumber »
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Offline Lumber

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 10:07:49 »
Being the RegF officer in the RSS position, I can tell you it's a constant internal struggle to decide whether to send an email to a members' civilian or military email.

I'm used to quick responses and quick turn arounds in the RegF, and I've really had reign myself in to learn to decide what is and isn't time sensitive, and stop and think how/when to send emails out to the Class-As.

For routine business, if it can wait two or three days until the department heads and divisional officers are in, I will send it to their military emails, even if it means I can't finish a task right away (which is hard for me, as I'm the type that likes to get a job done right away). If it can't wait 2-3 days, then I will send it to their civilian emails. When it comes to my command team (CO, XO, Coxn), my emails almost always go to both their civilian and military emails, as they want to be informed immediately of everything going on.

That being said, I do agree that we really way too heavily on civilian cellphones and email. Sure, senior staff have sort of signed-on to be plugged into the business and can be expected to be more available, but what about our junior sailors and soldiers?

It may seem unusual to most, but there really are soldiers and sailors that cannot afford a good cellphone plan. This isn't the regular force, so they don't have a guaranteed income. We have sailors who's only source of income is their Class-A work and don't have reliable data plans, yet we still chomp on these people to respond quickly to emails from their chains of command, and I just don't think that's fair.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 10:10:09 »
I suppose I'm fortunate to have a DVPNI laptop for home use. None the less, that's still time I have to devote after I come home from work. By way of example I had 98 emails come to me over the course of two days. Yes, I do get paid for it, but that's not really the point.

I have a DVPNI laptop at home too, but, thankfully, no more Blackberry.

I've heard it said by some senior officers that this type of devotion to duty is expected because it's already compensated (paid for) in that on a Class A parade night you get paid for six hours but you only work for three.  Therefore you "owe" three hours of work to HRH.  That is, of course, utter hogwash and clearly not in line with the CBI 204.51(2)a definition of a Class A period of service of less than six hours.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 10:20:01 »
When it comes to my command team (CO, XO, Coxn), my emails almost always go to both their civilian and military emails, as they want to be informed immediately of everything going on.

Ultimately they are responsible to higher for their unit operations and accountable for the decisions made in their absence by the FT (RSS/FTUC) staff.  So, it's somewhat imperative that they are informed in a timely manner because they will be the ones queried if an issue goes sideways.  However, that doesn't make it right.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 10:30:03 by Haggis »
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Offline Pusser

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2018, 10:30:30 »
How did we ever manage to win a world war without cell phones?
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 10:39:21 »
The Army's new funding model assumes about 100 days/year for unit command team.

That's five months full-time (at 20 working days/month).  How we expect Res unit command teams to (a) be senior leaders in their civilian jobs (b) be engaged in their community and (c) maintain some semblance of a family life, while working five months a year of evenings and weekends eludes me.


But god forbid a spreadsheet be late.
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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 10:59:12 »
The Army's new funding model assumes about 100 days/year for unit command team.

That's five months full-time (at 20 working days/month).  How we expect Res unit command teams to (a) be senior leaders in their civilian jobs (b) be engaged in their community and (c) maintain some semblance of a family life, while working five months a year of evenings and weekends eludes me.


But god forbid a spreadsheet be late.

You mean a spreadsheet the HHQ could likely populate themselves, if they ever bothered to open DRMIS, HRMS or MonitorMass?

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 11:32:40 »
12 emails past night between 6 and 11pm.

The CAF officially classifies as SPAM now :)
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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 11:35:28 »
You mean a spreadsheet the HHQ could likely populate themselves, if they ever bothered to open DRMIS, HRMS or MonitorMass?

Well, it's really two nearly identical spreadsheets: one from the '1, the other from the '3...

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Offline CanadianTire

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 13:05:13 »
I'm not leadership, but I am currently work with my unit's RQ and essentially am the primary contact as our RQ and all day staff are away until next week. Regardless, even when my supervisor is here there are at least a few texts and almost certainly one or two emails from the CSM regarding upcoming training and as I'm generally responsible for drawing weapons for company training and unit events, I find myself coordinating during the week with my "customers" to make sure I know what they need and can arrange for everything to run smoothly on a Wednesday or Friday night (for example, I know today and tomorrow I will be in touch with our shooting team's coach to ensure all paperwork for Friday night is ready so that they can get their rifles and leave quickly).

As non-leadership, I'm not entitled to a half-day admin pay, but the extra half-days on weekends makes up for that.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2018, 14:22:51 »

As non-leadership, I'm not entitled to a half-day admin pay, but the extra half-days on weekends makes up for that.

If they make you work, you’re entitled to pay. If they’re unwilling to ly you for the time you spend fielding that stuff, it sounds like it can all wait til you’re at work and signed in.
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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 14:53:23 »
Few people, within my CoC, had my civie cell #. The number on the nominal roll was an unlisted landline with no answering machine.
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Offline CanadianTire

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2018, 14:55:21 »
If they make you work, you’re entitled to pay. If they’re unwilling to ly you for the time you spend fielding that stuff, it sounds like it can all wait til you’re at work and signed in.

At the end of this month I should just show them all the Tuesday and Friday text messages and emails going back to September and ask for a half day (or two since for a good part of that time I was course storesman) for each month...get a little extra money on my last pay of this training year! ;D
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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2018, 15:59:41 »
Yup. They should be absolutely OK with that.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2018, 16:26:47 »
Few people, within my CoC, had my civie cell #. The number on the nominal roll was an unlisted landline with no answering machine.

Well, you were recce: being hard to find was your way of life!  ;)

Offline Lumber

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2018, 17:04:13 »
Few people, within my CoC, had my civie cell #. The number on the nominal roll was an unlisted landline with no answering machine.

These days, if you are required to provide your phone number. You are not required to have a phone, but, you are also required not to lie. If you have a phone and refuse to provide the contact info, or provide false info... well... there are options.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: MILITARY RELATED CELLULAR USE BY RESERVISTS
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2018, 17:37:36 »
These days, if you are required to provide your phone number. You are not required to have a phone, but, you are also required not to lie. If you have a phone and refuse to provide the contact info, or provide false info... well... there are options.

I've never heard of that. What would it be under?
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