Author Topic: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase  (Read 11374 times)

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Offline Altair

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Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« on: May 29, 2018, 09:56:15 »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-trans-mountain-pipeline-kinder-morgan-1.4681911
Quote
The Liberal government will buy the Trans Mountain pipeline and infrastructure related to the expansion project for $4.5 billion.

Finance Minister Bill Morneau is announcing details of the agreement reached with Kinder Morgan at a news conference with Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr at the National Press Theatre in Ottawa

"Make no mistake, this is an investment in Canada's future," Morneau said.

He said the government does not intend to be a long-term owner, and at the appropriate time, the government will work with investors to transfer the project and related assets to a new owner or owners. Investors such as Indigenous groups and pension funds have already expressed interest, he said.

Until then, it will proceed under the ownership of a Crown corporation. The agreement is expected to close in August.

Morneau said the project is in the national interest, and proceeding will preserve jobs, reassure investors and get resources to world markets.

I would imagine that they don't want this to fail if they are the owners of the project.

That said, this isn't the ideal way to get infrastructure projects built in Canada, but still better than letting it fail
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 10:18:22 »
Why is it that every time there is a Trudeau as Prime Minister, the Federal Government decides to buy into the oil industry? Is it genetic?

We would never be in this mess had the Liberals not caved to the Mayor of Montreal on Energy East and submarined the North Coast First Nations by killing Northern Gateway.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 10:22:35 by SeaKingTacco »

Offline Altair

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2018, 12:59:43 »
Why is it that every time there is a Trudeau as Prime Minister, the Federal Government decides to buy into the oil industry? Is it genetic?

We would never be in this mess had the Liberals not caved to the Mayor of Montreal on Energy East and submarined the North Coast First Nations by killing Northern Gateway.
I think pipeline protesters would have shown up at all 3.

I'm sure Quebec and maybe ontario would have been putting up legal challenge after legal challenge.

I'm sure Horgan in BC would fight both pipelines, not only one.

So I'm not sure about that statement of yours.

That said, interesting position the government is in. Going to be hit on the right for nationalizing a pipeline, hit on the left for building a pipeline. Potential for this to be a step of government to do all that it can to help it through, or to be one of the worst boondoggles in history.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 13:24:37 »
That said, interesting position the government is in. Going to be hit on the right for nationalizing a pipeline, hit on the left for building a pipeline. Potential for this to be a step of government to do all that it can to help it through, or to be one of the worst boondoggles in history.

I'm torn about the reaction of the right. On the one hand, I don't think they will truly care, at this point, that we are nationalizing the pipeline; they will be happy that we are getting it done. On the other hand, the fact that the LPC are the ones getting it done might mute their response; don't expect any good job-pat on the backs from the right wight.

The thing about the left wing... nromally I'd say, "well, duh!" of course they will will be unhappy with a pipeline, but it's hard because, isn't the LPC left wing now? :P
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Offline Altair

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2018, 13:32:33 »
I'm torn about the reaction of the right. On the one hand, I don't think they will truly care, at this point, that we are nationalizing the pipeline; they will be happy that we are getting it done. On the other hand, the fact that the LPC are the ones getting it done might mute their response; don't expect any good job-pat on the backs from the right wight.

The thing about the left wing... nromally I'd say, "well, duh!" of course they will will be unhappy with a pipeline, but it's hard because, isn't the LPC left wing now? :P
Yeah, I will be interested in the response from the right, because of the support of pipelines in the conservative heartland. Will they care that it took nationalization to get it done, or will the ideological purists still protest it?

As for the left, the eco radicals don't care about party. The union left will love it though, another crown corporation in the making.
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 14:17:03 »
Left or right is irrelevant for me.  I'm pleased to see the government is doing its job in seeing this through.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 14:45:32 »
Left or right is irrelevant for me.  I'm pleased to see the government is doing its job in seeing this through.

And, hopefully, one of the things that will be 'through' as a result is the stoopid NDP-Green co-government in BC.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 15:53:55 »
How much unspent budget will DND be handing back over the next 4 years. Thats how they can pay for it.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 16:25:17 »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-trans-mountain-pipeline-kinder-morgan-1.4681911
I would imagine that they don't want this to fail if they are the owners of the project.

That said, this isn't the ideal way to get infrastructure projects built in Canada, but still better than letting it fail

This will be pipeline building in South West BC  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djzRWIhiD00&t=149s   :rofl:

Offline Loachman

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 16:57:25 »
"Veterans are asking for more than we can afford."

"Hey - let's blow billions of tax dollars to build a pipeline that would have been built with private money had we done our jobs right."

And what's the effect on other investors considering the wisdom of major projects in Canada going to be? Not very positive, I imagine.

I am glad that it now stands a somewhat better chance of being built than it did a couple of days ago (but am still not confident that it will be built, and much less so that it will be efficiently and economically built), but this rivals the Sea King replacement and Firearms Act as a monument to Liberal incompetence, stupidity, and waste.

I just hope that those who will/may build and operate it are not paid via Phoenix...

Offline Loachman

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2018, 17:16:27 »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pipeline-morneau-nationalize-1.4682199

Taxpayers will foot the $4.5 billion purchase price. That sum doesn't include what could be billions of dollars in construction costs, or the costs of cleaning up a spill - although Morneau said Alberta's government will share the cost of any unexpected or emergency cost overruns.

And there are no guarantees that the pipeline will return the investment when (and if) a buyer can be found sometime in the future — that selling the line will fetch an asking price that realizes the full value of the public money being invested.

Morneau said many private sector investors expressed interest in the project, though he failed to explain why none of them were prepared to take the same risk with shareholders' money he's taking with taxpayers' money, given the staunch public opposition and ongoing protests against the project at the pipeline's terminus in Burnaby, B.C.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-trans-mountain-pipeline-kinder-morgan-1.4681911

"Canadian public could also incur millions to construct expansion project with estimated price tag of $7.4B"

I misspoke when I used the term "rivals" in my last post.

I should have said "dwarves".

I really cannot see this ending well for anybody.

Offline Altair

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 17:38:08 »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pipeline-morneau-nationalize-1.4682199

Taxpayers will foot the $4.5 billion purchase price. That sum doesn't include what could be billions of dollars in construction costs, or the costs of cleaning up a spill - although Morneau said Alberta's government will share the cost of any unexpected or emergency cost overruns.

And there are no guarantees that the pipeline will return the investment when (and if) a buyer can be found sometime in the future — that selling the line will fetch an asking price that realizes the full value of the public money being invested.

Morneau said many private sector investors expressed interest in the project, though he failed to explain why none of them were prepared to take the same risk with shareholders' money he's taking with taxpayers' money, given the staunch public opposition and ongoing protests against the project at the pipeline's terminus in Burnaby, B.C.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-trans-mountain-pipeline-kinder-morgan-1.4681911

"Canadian public could also incur millions to construct expansion project with estimated price tag of $7.4B"

I misspoke when I used the term "rivals" in my last post.

I should have said "dwarves".

I really cannot see this ending well for anybody.
At least it gets built.

The increases exports of oil at market prices will bring in billions more in royalties alone.
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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 17:41:06 »
At least it gets built.

The increases exports of oil at market prices will bring in billions more in royalties alone.

It's not built yet.  I'll hurrah when it is.

Offline Altair

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 17:55:59 »
It's not built yet.  I'll hurrah when it is.
Can I hold you to this?
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 18:21:49 »
At least it gets built.

Maybe.

It would have a better chance of being built - and at no risk to the people of Canada - had this government done its job instead of just mouthing platitudes.

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 18:23:22 »
Can I hold you to this?

If l haven't died of old age, sure.

Offline Larry Strong

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 18:25:38 »
Maybe.

It would have a better chance of being built - and at no risk to the people of Canada - had this government done its job instead of just mouthing platitudes.

Why does everyone feel that just because the LPC bought the pipeline that all is well and it will be built???


I don't see the enviro nuts giving up the good fight just because it's now owned by them as opposed to Kinder Morgan....


Now where near getting this built.........



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Offline Loachman

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 18:52:05 »
Good deal for Kinder Morgan, though, getting paid to not build a pipeline.

In a couple of decades, somebody's hair will be neither as nice or as abundant.

And he won't be anymore ready.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 19:25:28 »
I'm torn about the reaction of the right. On the one hand, I don't think they will truly care, at this point, that we are nationalizing the pipeline; they will be happy that we are getting it done. On the other hand, the fact that the LPC are the ones getting it done might mute their response; don't expect any good job-pat on the backs from the right wight.

The thing about the left wing... nromally I'd say, "well, duh!" of course they will will be unhappy with a pipeline, but it's hard because, isn't the LPC left wing now? :P

Past performance on this file does not guarantee that anything will get done, rather that it won't. The only thing that's guaranteed is that we own the beast now.
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2018, 19:26:31 »
Good deal for Kinder Morgan, though, getting paid to not build a pipeline.

In a couple of decades, somebody's hair will be neither as nice or as abundant.

And he won't be anymore ready.

Notwithstanding your thinly disguised and all too predictable personal attack on the PM, what do you think the Government should have done?
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Offline Furniture

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2018, 21:21:50 »
If the pipeline is built, and at a not unreasonable expense (given it's going to be government built), I will give the current Liberal government it's due praise.

 I believe the PM should have used more of his "social license" to push it in the political arena before having to make it a government project. I'm fairly certain I know why they didn't, but I think the repercussions from the green left will be just as severe as if they had pushed politically via legislation. The right leaning voters now resent the government for making it a nationalized asset, and the green left will despise them for building/attempting another pipeline.   

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2018, 21:39:33 »
Notwithstanding your thinly disguised and all too predictable personal attack on the PM, what do you think the Government should have done?


In fact this is, arguably, the least bad course of action open ... but this government ended up in a corner because of their own ill considered political choices in 2015, 2016 and 2017 as they tried to appease too many constituencies at the expense of the national interest.

Sort of doing the right (at least not terribly wrong) thing for all the wrong reasons ...


Edit: to dd "thing" in last sentence  ???
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2018, 21:44:02 »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pipeline-morneau-nationalize-1.4682199

Taxpayers will foot the $4.5 billion purchase price. That sum doesn't include what could be billions of dollars in construction costs, or the costs of cleaning up a spill - although Morneau said Alberta's government will share the cost of any unexpected or emergency cost overruns.

And there are no guarantees that the pipeline will return the investment when (and if) a buyer can be found sometime in the future — that selling the line will fetch an asking price that realizes the full value of the public money being invested.

Morneau said many private sector investors expressed interest in the project, though he failed to explain why none of them were prepared to take the same risk with shareholders' money he's taking with taxpayers' money, given the staunch public opposition and ongoing protests against the project at the pipeline's terminus in Burnaby, B.C.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-trans-mountain-pipeline-kinder-morgan-1.4681911

"Canadian public could also incur millions to construct expansion project with estimated price tag of $7.4B"

I misspoke when I used the term "rivals" in my last post.

I should have said "dwarves".

I really cannot see this ending well for anybody.

Chump change. After all, in 2009 the federal and Ontario governments provided $13.7 billion to the auto sector and only recovered something like $5.4 billion from the sale of shares.

And, I don't remember the left complaining about it when it happened.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2018, 21:54:04 »
There's nothing wrong with a government being responsive to logical and responsible concerns raised by constituents and other levels of government, but in this case those concerns are barely visible but nor are they invisible or ill founded (environmentally).  Prime Minister St. Laurent built many, many great projects by ramming them through, which however necessary for the good of the country, might not have been the best course of action.   My **guess** is that it is difficult to govern anymore in this day and age, the process of governing fits with very little sensible reasoning in the age of hyper speed reactivity. 

Was this a situation of Mortons Fork,  Hobsons Choice or Buridans *** for the feds? Discuss.

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2018, 22:56:20 »
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