Author Topic: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase  (Read 18459 times)

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Offline YZT580

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #100 on: September 08, 2018, 21:07:01 »
Perhaps they opened up the shipping issue themselves through their legislation banning tankers from the north shore? 

Offline Colin P

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #101 on: September 08, 2018, 22:33:11 »
It certainly does not help

Offline Rocky Mountains

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2018, 11:01:29 »
Canada does not control shipping in the Strait of Juan de Fuca and the Americans are less likely to commit economic hari kari than Canadians.  I'm guessing that over time, despite whatever Canada decides, ships heading into the Port of Seattle will be killing whales in ever increasing numbers.  Also note that we haven't strangled the Ports of Montreal, Quebec, and the Great Lakes despite an unsustainable loss of whales in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2018, 13:49:02 »
Both the US and Canada are working together to reduce impacts on the resident Killer whales. In fact the EPA has far more teeth than CEAA ever had and can force requirements onto shipping.

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #104 on: October 13, 2018, 07:42:57 »
Via Twitter 12 Oct 18:

1. Dan McTeague @GasBuddyDan

Nice to see WTI trading at $71.50 a barrel, Saudi Arabia getting $$78.71 for its heavy oil and even basketcase Venezuelan Merey getting $67.38/barrel. Canada’s WCS oil? $15.97
LET THAT SINK IN. WAKE UP CANADA.

2. Charles Adler@charlesadler

Charles Adler Retweeted Dan McTeague
If Quebec had to sell power and Ontario had to sell automotive and BC had to sell tourism at these kinds of disgusting discounts, we would say the country's in crisis. But the Ottawa attitude on this economic catastrophe for #Alberta is  "there's nothing to see here."

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #105 on: February 22, 2019, 18:50:32 »
It's on again

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/neb-tmx-killer-whales-1.5028051

The 16 new recommendations are:

Develop and implement a regional cumulative effects management plan.
Report publicly on the cumulative effects and health of the Salish Sea.
Develop a marine bird-monitoring and protection program.
Expedite the work in completing the feasibility study for establishing a Southern Strait of Georgia National Marine Conservation Area Reserve.
Develop a program to offset both the increased underwater noise and the increased strike risk posed to Species at Risk Act-listed marine mammal and fish species.
Consider slowdowns in certain marine shipping routes and noise reduction on ferries.
Update federal marine shipping oil spill response requirements.
Mandate enhanced tug escort in the Salish Sea for tankers.
Consider the need for a Canada/United States Transboundary Vessel Traffic Risk Assessment.
Develop greenhouse gas reduction measures related to marine shipping.
Seek feedback from the Indigenous advisory and monitoring committee on the marine safety system.
Continue engagement with coastal Indigenous communities, recreational boaters, fishing vessel operators and operators of small vessels.
Enhance the safety of all sizes of marine vessels.
Provide financial incentives to promote innovation in new oil recovery technologies.
Review the federal marine oil spill compensation regimes.
Develop a formal complaint resolution program.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #106 on: February 22, 2019, 18:54:55 »
It's on again

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/neb-tmx-killer-whales-1.5028051

The 16 new recommendations are:

Develop and implement a regional cumulative effects management plan.
Report publicly on the cumulative effects and health of the Salish Sea.
Develop a marine bird-monitoring and protection program.
Expedite the work in completing the feasibility study for establishing a Southern Strait of Georgia National Marine Conservation Area Reserve.
Develop a program to offset both the increased underwater noise and the increased strike risk posed to Species at Risk Act-listed marine mammal and fish species.
Consider slowdowns in certain marine shipping routes and noise reduction on ferries.
Update federal marine shipping oil spill response requirements.
Mandate enhanced tug escort in the Salish Sea for tankers.
Consider the need for a Canada/United States Transboundary Vessel Traffic Risk Assessment.
Develop greenhouse gas reduction measures related to marine shipping.
Seek feedback from the Indigenous advisory and monitoring committee on the marine safety system.
Continue engagement with coastal Indigenous communities, recreational boaters, fishing vessel operators and operators of small vessels.
Enhance the safety of all sizes of marine vessels.
Provide financial incentives to promote innovation in new oil recovery technologies.
Review the federal marine oil spill compensation regimes.
Develop a formal complaint resolution program.

And then reverse the Woodland Caribou extinction while you're at it :)
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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #107 on: February 22, 2019, 20:25:20 »
And the bureaucratese version ...
Quote
The National Energy Board (NEB) today delivered its Reconsideration report to the Government of Canada, with an overall recommendation that the Trans Mountain Expansion Project (Project) is in the Canadian public interest and should be approved.

The NEB will impose 156 conditions on the Project if it is approved, and has made 16 new recommendations to the Government of Canada. The recommendations relate to matters that fall outside of the NEB’s regulatory mandate, but within the authority of the Government of Canada.

The Reconsideration report concludes that Project-related marine shipping is likely to cause significant adverse environmental effects on the Southern resident killer whale and on Indigenous cultural use associated with the Southern resident killer whale. The NEB also found that greenhouse gas emissions from Project-related marine vessels would likely be significant. While a credible worst-case spill from the Project or a Project-related marine vessel is not likely, if it were to occur the environmental effects would be significant. While these effects weighed heavily in the NEB’s consideration of Project-related marine shipping, the NEB recommends that the Government of Canada find that they can be justified in the circumstances, in light of the considerable benefits of the Project and measures to minimize the effects.

The considerable benefits of the Project include increased access to diverse markets for Canadian oil; jobs created across Canada; the development of capacity of local and Indigenous individuals, communities and businesses; direct spending on pipeline materials in Canada; and considerable revenues to various levels of government.

The Reconsideration specifically examined the impacts of Project-related marine shipping related to the application of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, 2012 and the Species at Risk Act (SARA) , as per the Government’s direction to the NEB in September 2018. The NEB has completed the Reconsideration within the 155 day timeline required by the Government of Canada.

If the Project is approved by the Government, the company must comply with 156 conditions, covering a wide range of matters including: emergency preparedness and response, protection of the environment; consultation with affected Indigenous communities; socio-economic matters; pipeline safety and integrity; commercial support for the Project prior to construction; and financial responsibility on the part of the company.

In addition, the NEB has made 16 recommendations to the Government of Canada related to Project-related marine shipping, including: cumulative effects management for the Salish Sea, measures to offset increased underwater noise and increased strike risk posted to SARA-listed marine mammal and fish species, marine oil spill response, marine shipping and small vessel safety, reduction of GHG emissions from marine vessels, and the Indigenous Advisory and Monitoring Committee for the Project.

Quote

    “As indicated in the NEB’s report, the NEB has delivered a comprehensive, evidence-based, fair and meaningful review of Project-related marine shipping, within the timeline required by the Government of Canada. The NEB listened to a range of diverse views and carefully considered all of the evidence submitted, the results of which are reflected in the conclusions, conditions and recommendations presented in the report.”

    – Dr. Robert Steedman, Chief Environment Officer, National Energy Board

Quick Facts:

    The NEB was given 155 days to complete its reconsideration.
    In the Reconsideration hearing, there were:
        118 Intervenors who participated, including 52 Indigenous groups and individuals, and 8 federal government departments.
        81 Intervenors who filed written evidence
        44 Intervenors who asked information requests of other Parties (including of Trans Mountain and federal government departments)
        25 individual Oral Traditional Evidence sessions in Calgary, Victoria and Nanaimo
    The Reconsideration hearing offered a fair and meaningful opportunity to Parties to participate and to fully present their case and represent their diverse points of view. This included an opportunity to comment on the scope of the environmental assessment and the design of the hearing process, file evidence, present Indigenous oral traditional evidence, question the evidence of other parties, comment on the draft conditions and recommendations, and present final argument.
    The NEB’s Reconsideration report has now been submitted to the Government of Canada. The report is one of the factors that the Government will consider when making the final decision on whether or not the Project should proceed ...
More @ link
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Offline YZT580

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #108 on: February 22, 2019, 21:12:18 »
It's on again


  Good thing we own it.  No company could afford to meet all those conditions without going bust.  And they have just made it more expensive for every ship that enters the waterway regardless of whether it is carrying crude or not. 
And the picket lines and trespassing will be back monday with lawsuits and court order requests to follow on Tuesday. 

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2019, 09:37:48 »
It's on again ... Really!!! Not, is my opinion.

Here's an interesting portion of the "bureaucratic" version put up by Tony:

In addition, the NEB has made 16 recommendations to the Government of Canada related to Project-related marine shipping, including: cumulative effects management for the Salish Sea, measures to offset increased underwater noise and increased strike risk posted to SARA-listed marine mammal and fish species, marine oil spill response, marine shipping and small vessel safety, reduction of GHG emissions from marine vessels, and the Indigenous Advisory and Monitoring Committee for the Project./i]

Those 16 recommendations to the Government of Canada are the ones listed below by Colin:

Develop and implement a regional cumulative effects management plan.
Report publicly on the cumulative effects and health of the Salish Sea.
Develop a marine bird-monitoring and protection program.
Expedite the work in completing the feasibility study for establishing a Southern Strait of Georgia National Marine Conservation Area Reserve.
Develop a program to offset both the increased underwater noise and the increased strike risk posed to Species at Risk Act-listed marine mammal and fish species.
Consider slowdowns in certain marine shipping routes and noise reduction on ferries.
Update federal marine shipping oil spill response requirements.
Mandate enhanced tug escort in the Salish Sea for tankers.
Consider the need for a Canada/United States Transboundary Vessel Traffic Risk Assessment.
Develop greenhouse gas reduction measures related to marine shipping.
Seek feedback from the Indigenous advisory and monitoring committee on the marine safety system.
Continue engagement with coastal Indigenous communities, recreational boaters, fishing vessel operators and operators of small vessels.
Enhance the safety of all sizes of marine vessels.
Provide financial incentives to promote innovation in new oil recovery technologies.
Review the federal marine oil spill compensation regimes.
Develop a formal complaint resolution program.

Rest assured that:

(1) the various groups fighting this take all possible actions to make sure that these "recommendations" become considered compulsory conditions for the construction of the pipeline in the population's mind, i.e. that they must be met before anything gets built; and,
(2) that the current governing party will see it as such in any event as anything else would lose them their B.C. seats for quite a while.

Now look at how extensive the plans and regulations requirements "recommended" by the NEB are. Colin can probably attest to this, but Transport Canada is one of the slowest department when it comes to regulating anything. When Offshore oil was developed off Newfoundland, it took them seven years to come up with minor tweaks to marine regulations to add things like compulsory survival suits for all onboard support vessels.

There is enough regulatory work required to give effect to the NEB "recommendations" to keep that department going for half a century before achieving anything - unless the government invests heavily into expanding the department at great cost. I don't think Canadians are ready for the types of investment that would require.

So mark my words: this thing that just costs us 4.5 B$, and will cost many more billions to just appear (on the part of the government) to move on the "recommendations", so as to not alienate Alberta even more, will move so far off in the future that it will ultimately never be built.

The funny thing is, if the government had not bought Kinder Morgan, the pipeline could probably have been built and permits/certificates issued with the company meeting its 156 obligations and the GoC merely saying it was taking the recommendations to it onboard and was moving on them. Now that the GoC is the shareholder of the pipeline company, the two become entangled and not really separable.

Anyway, I'll be dead by the time Alberta oil flows in the new Trans mountain.  ;D   

Online FSTO

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2019, 20:36:00 »
Where are the recommendations that the Whale Watching industry be more closely monitored on their effect on the chasing of pods of Orcas all about the Salish Sea and the constant stress these animals face on a daily basis.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2019, 22:36:03 »
Well we could start by banning recreational boating in Georgia Strait, requiring all ferry traffic to be limited to essential travel only. I am sure all the progressives can get behind that....

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2019, 22:54:54 »
Where are the recommendations that the Whale Watching industry be more closely monitored on their effect on the chasing of pods of Orcas all about the Salish Sea and the constant stress these animals face on a daily basis.

But, most of the companies have the prefix "eco" right in their name. That must mean something!

And of course, none of their boats run on petroleum fuel, right?   ::)

Online Old Sweat

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2019, 23:30:15 »
But, most of the companies have the prefix "eco" right in their name. That must mean something!

And of course, none of their boats run on petroleum fuel, right?   ::)


I'm so impressed you could type that with a straight face.  :cheers:

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #114 on: February 24, 2019, 18:54:32 »

I'm so impressed you could type that with a straight face.  :cheers:

Be careful, the City of Victoria might sue you, too:

City of Victoria recommends class-action lawsuit against the oil and gas industry

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-city-of-victoria-recommends-class-action-lawsuit-against-the-oil-and/
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2019, 19:49:34 »

I'm so impressed you could type that with a straight face.  :cheers:

Yes, TeslaBoat 1...no fossil fuels at all... ::)

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #116 on: February 25, 2019, 01:21:24 »
I see it's working.  ;)  SNC is sliding quietly away, as is JWR.
This and other small little bush fires are being set to see which one the wind gets behind that can be fanned into a conflagration, but making sure the dynamite sweats just enough nobody will will remember anything else. Once the threat is over, it can be safely stored away forever, in the old mine.

That's what I was thinking, anyway, while staring at the ceiling and listening to this crazy 40-60 kph west wind. Idle musings of an unoccupied mind. :alone:
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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #117 on: February 25, 2019, 10:20:42 »
Be careful, the City of Victoria might sue you, too:

City of Victoria recommends class-action lawsuit against the oil and gas industry

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-city-of-victoria-recommends-class-action-lawsuit-against-the-oil-and/

The same city that pumped their crap directly into the ocean because they were to cheap to pay for a primary treatment plant...

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #118 on: February 25, 2019, 11:10:11 »
The same city that pumped their crap directly into the ocean because they were to cheap to pay for a primary treatment plant...

:not-again:

...the same...

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #119 on: February 25, 2019, 11:22:11 »
Quote
Develop and implement a regional cumulative effects management plan.
Report publicly on the cumulative effects and health of the Salish Sea.
Develop a marine bird-monitoring and protection program.
Expedite the work in completing the feasibility study for establishing a Southern Strait of Georgia National Marine Conservation Area Reserve.
Develop a program to offset both the increased underwater noise and the increased strike risk posed to Species at Risk Act-listed marine mammal and fish species.
Consider slowdowns in certain marine shipping routes and noise reduction on ferries.
Update federal marine shipping oil spill response requirements.
Mandate enhanced tug escort in the Salish Sea for tankers.
Consider the need for a Canada/United States Transboundary Vessel Traffic Risk Assessment.
Develop greenhouse gas reduction measures related to marine shipping.
Seek feedback from the Indigenous advisory and monitoring committee on the marine safety system.
Continue engagement with coastal Indigenous communities, recreational boaters, fishing vessel operators and operators of small vessels.
Enhance the safety of all sizes of marine vessels.
Provide financial incentives to promote innovation in new oil recovery technologies.
Review the federal marine oil spill compensation regimes.
Develop a formal complaint resolution program.


Is it just me or does anyone else see an NEB pushback against the Feds and BC?

None of these recommendations are within the purview of private industry.  I sense that all of these are only included because the owner is now the Federal Government, the same Feds that have cast aspersions on the NEB.

Also we have recommendations that will inflict pain on BC even in the absence of a pipeline reference.

The board is essentially recommending that all marine traffic should be reconsidered for its effects on greenhouse gases and orcas.  If you are going to go green then you need to drive your ferries slower (more ferries BC, and longer transit time commuters) and you really should do something about all those internal combustion engines powering all ships and boats in your harbour Vancouver.  All those dirty bulk freighters idling at anchor. 

And while we're at it lets tighten up on our oil spill response and general marine safety Feds.

This list is not directed at the oil transport system.  In my view it is arguing for "levelling the playing field" by saying that if there are concerns about the effects of tankers then the same concerns are equally valid for every other hull in the water (including whale watching boats).
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #120 on: February 25, 2019, 11:29:45 »
...In my view it is arguing for "levelling the playing field" by saying that if there are concerns about the effects of tankers then the same concerns are equally valid for every other hull in the water (including whale watching boats).

Which is actually a valid point about fairness to an industry that an environmental pressure was placing on it, but not others. Vancouver has heavy traffic of massive, fast moving comtainer ships that are just as dangerous if not more, than slower tankers. Last picture I recall seeing if a Right Whale ‘speared’ on a ships bulbous now, it was a container ship, not a tanker.

Regards
G2G

Offline Lumber

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #121 on: February 25, 2019, 11:41:07 »
Last picture I recall seeing if a Right Whale ‘speared’ on a ships bulbous now, it was a container ship, not a tanker.

Regards
G2G

Wasn't it a cruise ship that subsequently docked at Canada place?
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #122 on: February 25, 2019, 12:01:32 »
Yes. We almost rammed a Humpback that surfaced in front of our cutter. DFO placed blades on the front of their cutters to ram whales and basking sharks. They also wanted to mount a HMG at East Saturna Point to shoot the Killer Whales with. somewhere I have a report from DFO in 1922 where they borrowed a Lewis gun and veteran and proceeded to machine gun a Sea lion rookery with "Great Success" 

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #123 on: February 25, 2019, 13:34:48 »
Wasn't it a cruise ship that subsequently docked at Canada place?

Dang, that’s right, too!  Either way, not an evil oil-bearing emisary vessel of Satan.

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Re: Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase
« Reply #124 on: February 25, 2019, 17:02:26 »
You can see the full list of the recommendations and details of what they are looking for here; https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/pplctnflng/mjrpp/trnsmntnxpnsn/trnsmntnxpnsnrprtcndtn-eng.html

This one has me scratching my head;

Quote
The Governor in Council should actively support the development and implementation of greenhouse gas reduction measures related to marine shipping that would align with the final International Maritime Organization Strategy by year 2023 for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. These measures could include, but not be limited to:

    facilitating the use of low-carbon alternate fuels (such as liquefied natural gas) for marine vessels by developing any necessary marine safety regulatory framework, training programs, and bunkering infrastructure requirements;
    use of energy efficient technologies, such as engine and propulsion upgrades and hull modifications; and
    market-based measures, such as providing economic incentives for industry investment in the development and use of energy efficient technologies, and offsetting any increases in ship emissions.

In implementing the measures, the Governor in Council could also consider a mechanism to establish and monitor such reductions and to develop regulations under an appropriate legislation.

Did some reading (see IMO link below) on the 2023 plan, but all the territoral waters in NA are already exhaust control areas (ECAs) so they are already limited in what fuel that they can use, with some new standards kicking in Jan 2020.  Canada is already part of the IMO (which is a UN organization) and normally adopts the resolutions as part of the CSA regulations.

Hard to wade through the jargon in the recommendations, but aren't we already actively involved in that? 

Their recommendations don't seem unreasonable on the surface, but from a quick read the ones that are under development are 5 year plus programs, and others also look pretty long term.  They are also all over the place in terms of responsibility, and would require a number of different GoC departments to do things, plus Canada/US work.  It seems pretty ambitious, can see why a private company would have walked away from this.  Plus it streches over more than one mandate, so even if someone starts today, it will grind to a halt during the election period, then need a restart when the BGHs change their minds and the implementation does a 180.

http://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/PressBriefings/Pages/18-MEPCGHGprogramme.aspx?__hstc=32645665.7ab734f9822a9c3981f04695664b9dc0.1541376000087.1541376000088.1541376000089.1&__hssc=32645665.1.1541376000090&__hsfp=528229161z