Author Topic: Canada-USA trade war.  (Read 16069 times)

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Online Altair

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Canada-USA trade war.
« on: May 31, 2018, 14:03:17 »
So the US has imposed tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum,  canada hitting back with dollar for dollar tariffs effective July 1st.

Can't see this ending well.

http://nationalpost.com/news/economy/newsalert-u-s-tariffs-on-steel-aluminum-coming-at-midnight-says-ross/wcm/d9cb84ae-4161-4465-ba43-88f916b91028

Quote
Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross announced Thursday that the United States will end the temporary exemption on Canadian, Mexican and European Union steel and aluminum as of midnight, as scheduled.

That means that President Donald Trump will be facing a group of leaders who will likely have taken retaliatory action against the United States when he makes his closely watched Canadian debut at the G7 next week in Quebec.

Prior to Ross’s announcement, a senior Canadian official, speaking on condition of anonymity citing the sensitivity of the situation, confirmed Canada has prepared a list of U.S. products that might face retaliatory tariffs, but declined to give further details.

The E.U. said Thursday it would impose duties “on a number of imports from the United States,” referring to a 10-page list of targets for retaliation it published in March, which included Kentucky bourbon and Harley-Davidson motorcycles. European leaders also vowed to proceed with a complaint to the World Trade Organization.


A trade war between allies. Just what was needed.
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Offline CBH99

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 18:03:42 »
Legitimate question - albeit it might sound silly.

The US seems pretty intent on disrupting the status quo, even amongst it's allies.  Whether Trump is targeting & disrupting relations with foreign countries that aren't particularly friendly, or disrupting trading relationships with it's allies - he's making waves even amongst friends.


My question is this...

Although the wording of the news regarding this can sound scary, can we not simply increase our exports elsewhere?  China & India are the first to come to mind, can we not simply increase our exports to countries like those & become less dependent on the US for trade in certain areas?
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 19:44:07 »
A week before Trump comes up here for G7. Lovely.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Online Altair

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 20:01:34 »
Legitimate question - albeit it might sound silly.

The US seems pretty intent on disrupting the status quo, even amongst it's allies.  Whether Trump is targeting & disrupting relations with foreign countries that aren't particularly friendly, or disrupting trading relationships with it's allies - he's making waves even amongst friends.


My question is this...

Although the wording of the news regarding this can sound scary, can we not simply increase our exports elsewhere?  China & India are the first to come to mind, can we not simply increase our exports to countries like those & become less dependent on the US for trade in certain areas?
there is a global oversupply of steel as there is. There is no garantee that India would want more steel. China is a steel exporter,  so they definitely do not.

And in the case of India,  if their steel needs are met at current prices,  the only way they take more is at reduced prices. Not to mention the EU,  Canada,  China,  will all be looking to dump their excess steel that they cannot sell in the states anymore.
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Online GAP

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 22:29:55 »
The whole exercise is a pressure tactic.....his attitude is we should beg on bended knee for consideration....let it play out. Retaliate by hitting imports from ridings that hurt the republicans
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 23:05:01 »
You have to punch a bully in the nose....
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jollyjacktar

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 23:10:26 »
You have to punch a bully in the nose....

A hard kick to the balls or knee is better.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 23:40:49 »
I think this is more media spin than reality.Put up a border wall to keep those pesky americans out,wait you're americans too. ;DCall them illegal immigrants. :rofl:

Offline FJAG

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 23:44:21 »
The whole exercise is a pressure tactic.....his attitude is we should beg on bended knee for consideration....let it play out. Retaliate by hitting imports from ridings that hurt the republicans

That, in fact, is what we aim to do but not just Republicans in general; we're hitting areas where Trump supporting Republicans can be effected:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/steel-tariff-maple-syrup-toilet-paper-1.4686833

It's interesting to note that many congressional Republicans are getting more and more vocal on this issue.

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2018, 07:07:37 »
I think this is more media spin than reality.
   ???  Which part of the countervailing tariffs do you not believe is real?

Offline Colin P

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2018, 10:20:29 »
Prior to the 1812 war, the border States opposed going to war with their best customer. Considering that wars have been the "defining moments" for Canada, perhaps a trade war might be good for us in the long run?

Offline whiskey601

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2018, 10:31:14 »
There’s no way we are going to impose tariff on goods we cannot replace ourselves. I’m not sure it’s the same with them.
I can tell you Crown Royal made in Canada is preferred to the US distilled version of the same product. And they prefer Mexican Tequila .  Hit them where it it hurts- ther bar, the patio and the bed room and the bath room( Block US access to Porn Hub, which is proudly Canadian).
Restart our strategic oil reserve and buy 4. 5 billion worth of oil to fill it with.  Keep filling it.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 11:13:22 »
Wasn't there a trade argument about lumber ?There are those against these tarifs.I can see them used if countries put them on US goods but not trade partners.The President may be getting bad advice or else its some kind of payback.

Offline whiskey601

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2018, 21:31:41 »
I don't know what his game is, but the price of Canadian aluminum just went up 10 percent in the US, and it's still cheaper than their own domestic.  It sounds like our steel will be more problematic. This doesn't make any sense. If he wants to have a populist impact in the US about foreign minerals and mining, then start with middle Easter oil, anything from Turkey and Brazil. Even we can't compete with Brazil with all the subsidies.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2018, 22:42:10 »
I would be surprised if the US and Canada/Mexico dont come to an agreement before the November election.

Offline FJAG

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2018, 23:56:51 »
Let's hope Trump doesn't find out that Samantha Bee is/was Canadian.  ;D

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2018, 00:23:46 »
Let's hope Trump doesn't find out that Samantha Bee is/was Canadian.  ;D

 :cheers:

... or that we started the whole tariff thing, with the National Policy:


The term National Policy originally referred to a proposed raise in tariffs by the Macdonald-led Conservatives ("Tories") during the 1878 election campaign. Over time the term became associated with the entire Tory platform for developing the economy, especially increased immigration to Western Canada, and the development of the Canadian Pacific Railway's transcontinental line.[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Policy
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2018, 05:18:07 »
I don't know what his game is, but the price of Canadian aluminum just went up 10 percent in the US, and it's still cheaper than their own domestic.  It sounds like our steel will be more problematic. This doesn't make any sense. If he wants to have a populist impact in the US about foreign minerals and mining, then start with middle Easter oil, anything from Turkey and Brazil. Even we can't compete with Brazil with all the subsidies.

I seriously think that the businessman in him got fed up with Trudeau and Freeland demanding non-Trade related clauses to be added to the renewed NAFTA agreement.  He likely sees no reason to bicker over how to fill quotas of female workers within companies, aboriginal Rights, and other clauses on Trudeau's social engineering list.  He therefore, just reverted back to Pre-NAFTA tariff policies and put pressure on both Canada and Mexico to use some common sense in their negotiations and drop the social engineering clauses. 

Trudeau's reaction in creating our own tariffs on such things as Maple Syrup, is reminiscent of a spoiled child not getting his way and having a tantrum.  By the way, I thought we exported Maple Syrup.

Trudeau's bringing up "Canadian Troops have fought alongside Americans" was a great insult to Veterans who still have not gotten over his words that "Veterans are asking for more than we can give". 

Trudeau has to accept the blame on this one, and stop playing the "Blame Game".

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2018, 05:37:09 »
Quote from: George Wallace
He likely sees no reason to bicker over how to fill quotas of female workers within companies, aboriginal Rights, and other clauses on Trudeau's social engineering list. 

Do we actually do that?
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2018, 05:46:53 »
I dont think the two leaders get along.

jollyjacktar

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2018, 07:29:35 »
I dont think the two leaders get along.

They are oil and water.  I can sympathize with Trump, l don't like Trudeau either.

Offline Remius

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2018, 07:30:12 »
Do we actually do that?


No.  The NAFTA issue was over a sunset clause.  The US wanted a five year expiry time frame for NAFTA.

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Offline Remius

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2018, 07:41:47 »
I seriously think that the businessman in him got fed up with Trudeau and Freeland demanding non-Trade related clauses to be added to the renewed NAFTA agreement.  He likely sees no reason to bicker over how to fill quotas of female workers within companies, aboriginal Rights, and other clauses on Trudeau's social engineering list.  He therefore, just reverted back to Pre-NAFTA tariff policies and put pressure on both Canada and Mexico to use some common sense in their negotiations and drop the social engineering clauses. 

Trudeau's reaction in creating our own tariffs on such things as Maple Syrup, is reminiscent of a spoiled child not getting his way and having a tantrum.  By the way, I thought we exported Maple Syrup.

Trudeau's bringing up "Canadian Troops have fought alongside Americans" was a great insult to Veterans who still have not gotten over his words that "Veterans are asking for more than we can give". 

Trudeau has to accept the blame on this one, and stop playing the "Blame Game".

George, are you saying that Trudeau is responsible for Trump’s new tariffs on EU, Mexico and China?  Come on.  This is a political move by Trump that looks to backfire.

About the maple syrup thing.  You might think it’s a tantrum but it looks like a carefully crafted list by bureaucrats (I don’t give Trudeau any credit for coming up with this) likely developed after the last threat to target specific congressmen and senators and areas that will hurt Trump supporters.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/steel-tariff-maple-syrup-toilet-paper-1.4686833
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2018, 08:13:13 »
George, are you saying that Trudeau is responsible for Trump’s new tariffs on EU, Mexico and China?  Come on.  This is a political move by Trump that looks to backfire.


Trump is a business man. 

Stop and look back at some of the demands that Trudeau and Freeland were making, in adding clauses to NAFTA that really had no relevance to an agreement on international Trade.  I am sure that these demands at 'social engineering' have been a royal pain in the butt to all negotiators.  I am sure that the US frustration in these negotiations is now showing.  No NAFTA and we are all back to pre-NAFTA tariffs.  A reciprocal act of placing Canadian tariffs on American products looks more like that of a "spoiled child" having not gotten their way.   Pressure is now on for Canada and Mexico to get serious in negotiations.   

So, yes, I am saying that Trudeau brought this on himself.  He is the catalyst.


« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 08:34:00 by George Wallace »
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Offline Remius

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2018, 09:02:13 »
Trump is a business man. 

Stop and look back at some of the demands that Trudeau and Freeland were making, in adding clauses to NAFTA that really had no relevance to an agreement on international Trade.  I am sure that these demands at 'social engineering' have been a royal pain in the butt to all negotiators.  I am sure that the US frustration in these negotiations is now showing.  No NAFTA and we are all back to pre-NAFTA tariffs.  A reciprocal act of placing Canadian tariffs on American products looks more like that of a "spoiled child" having not gotten their way.   Pressure is now on for Canada and Mexico to get serious in negotiations.   

So, yes, I am saying that Trudeau brought this on himself.  He is the catalyst.


I’m legitimatly interested in said clauses that seem to be the issue.  Do you happen to have a list I could look at.  Right now the biggest issues seem to be supply management, sunset clause and a removal of the dispute resolution mechanism.  Neither side seems to want to budge.  In fact an offer was made that as long as Canada agreed to a five year sunset clause then they had a deal.  Something Canada won’t accept.

Retaliatory tariffs are in reaction to what seems to be a flimsy excuse for tariffs on the US’ part.
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