Author Topic: Canada-USA trade war.  (Read 7874 times)

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Offline FSTO

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #100 on: June 06, 2018, 14:50:12 »
This is actually funny

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html

If Trudeau was smart he would have told Trump that no Canada did not burn down the White House. It was the British, and then watch him spout off about the Europeans!

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #101 on: June 06, 2018, 16:17:53 »
This is actually funny

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html

If Trudeau was smart he would have told Trump that no Canada did not burn down the White House. It was the British, and then watch him spout off about the Europeans!

I love the way Canada plays the 'burning the White House' thing. When things are going our way, it was us. When it's to someone else's advantage, the Brits did it.

There was no Canada at the time. We were a British colony.

It's hard to fault outsiders who think Canadians were responsible. Especially when we lay claim to it all the time.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #102 on: June 06, 2018, 16:38:22 »
I love the way Canada plays the 'burning the White House' thing. When things are going our way, it was us. When it's to someone else's advantage, the Brits did it.

There was no Canada at the time. We were a British colony.

It's hard to fault outsiders who think Canadians were responsible. Especially when we lay claim to it all the time.
except... You know,  this is the president of the united states we are talking about here.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #103 on: June 06, 2018, 18:08:52 »
I love the way Canada plays the 'burning the White House' thing. When things are going our way, it was us. When it's to someone else's advantage, the Brits did it.

There was no Canada at the time. We were a British colony.

It's hard to fault outsiders who think Canadians were responsible. Especially when we lay claim to it all the time.

I agree with you, Recceguy, that this Canadian tendency to say it was us when it pleases us, but the Brits otherwise is pretty silly.

However, the one thing that is not contested where facts on that story are concerned is that, regardless of whether it was Canada or the Brits, we didn't start the damn war. The Americans started it by invading Canada (and burning York first, not just one house, the whole town) because they thought they could take advantage of the Brits involvement in Napoleonic wars in Europe to "annex" their North American remaining colonies. Burning the White House was the retaliation.

So regardless, for president Trump to allegedly (at this point that story seems to have leaked from the Canadian side, not the US) bring the burning of the White House to counter Canada's claim of being a good ally is as stupid as if Trump used it to claim that Great Britain is not a current solid ally.

Offline FJAG

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2018, 21:08:06 »
. . .
However, the one thing that is not contested where facts on that story are concerned is that, regardless of whether it was Canada or the Brits, we didn't start the damn war. The Americans started it by invading Canada (and burning York first, not just one house, the whole town) because they thought they could take advantage of the Brits involvement in Napoleonic wars in Europe to "annex" their North American remaining colonies. Burning the White House was the retaliation.
. . .

My guess is that there are only a handful of historians in the US that know that. The other 325.7 million haven't got a clue and if they are even aware of the War of 1812 think that they were attacked first but won the war at New Orleans (which took place two weeks after the the Treaty of Ghent was signed.)

I presume Trump learned about the burning of the White House was when he was given a tour of the place a year ago.

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #105 on: June 06, 2018, 23:50:15 »
Correct me if l err, but was it not the RN policy of boarding American merchantmen and impressing those crew members they deemed to be from the UK that got the US all fired up?  If so, is this not therefore a Chicken and Egg tussle?

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2018, 11:57:46 »
Correct me if l err, but was it not the RN policy of boarding American merchantmen and impressing those crew members they deemed to be from the UK that got the US all fired up?  If so, is this not therefore a Chicken and Egg tussle?

You're not exactly wrong. The basis for the War has been debated and disputed ever since it was fought. The impressment issues and other maritime questions were very real and definitely a cause and there are proponents on both sides that the War was either a reaction to British (and French) maritime policies or a convenient cover for expansionist policies to all of North America.

I've always subscribed to the notion that the War's genesis came out of the conflict between the Federalist Party (supporters of a strong central government) and the Democratic-Republican party (supporters of weak central government and in favour of strong state rights). Madison lead the D-R and the party at the time was very expansionist (both into Indian territory and Canada and beyond) Madison's successor as president after the War was also a D-R stalwart, James Monroe, he of the Monroe Doctrine and a "war hawk" within the D-R. At the time of the War, Monroe was Madison's Secretary of State (and after the burning of Washington, the Secretary for War). Monroe himself advocated strongly for himself to personally lead the invasion of Canada. Madison too saw the invasion of Canada as highly desirable because he thought it would be an easy task to take it. At a minimum, he thought, Canada's capture would be a bargaining chip in the US's dispute with Britain. The US was never united in either it's desire to fight with Britain nor the invasion of Canada. New England, in particular, was very anti-war.

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2018, 19:08:43 »
and Maine as well as I recall, I think all the border States had trade with Canada and didn't want to lose that.

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2018, 19:59:44 »
Just tweeted.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2018, 20:12:38 »
and Maine as well as I recall, I think all the border States had trade with Canada and didn't want to lose that.

If smuggling can be called trade.  ;D

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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2018, 20:40:03 »
Just tweeted.

Of course Trump forgets about US tariffs on Canadian lumber and newsprint.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2018, 20:42:05 »
Of course Trump forgets about US tariffs on Canadian lumber and newsprint.

Kind of hard to rile up the base that way.   :nod:
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2018, 20:49:38 »
Point was Supply Mgt. Why are Cdn consumers paying through the nose?
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2018, 20:58:18 »
Point was Supply Mgt. Why are Cdn consumers paying through the nose?
to play devils advocate,  its the only way to compete with how much the US subsidises their dairy industry.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2018, 23:24:22 »
to play devils advocate,  its the only way to compete with how much the US subsidises their dairy industry.

And corn, and sugar, etc
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #115 on: June 08, 2018, 00:19:18 »
and just about anything agricultural....the lobby is strong
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2018, 09:06:09 »
and just about anything agricultural....the lobby is strong
Ya, more or less.

We do away with supply management, we dump billions of dollars into subsidies to compete, higher taxes, etc.

There is no simple winning solution here
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Offline pbi

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #117 on: June 12, 2018, 11:04:13 »
I just read the Trump tweets about how Canada terrorizes the US economy. Has that man ever uttered a real fact in entire his life? Who can possibly believe the trash he trots out? It doesn't even match US govt figures. I mean, politicians like to BS-I get it-but I can't ever recall anybody remotely like this. Certainly not in US history, not even Clinton in his Monica and Whitewater days.

On a more positive note, it was very interesting to see both Doug Ford and Stephen Harper express their support for the Govt as it struggles with resurgent US protectionism and voodoo economics. But I guess it makes sense: some Canadians may have forgotten that Free Trade with the US was originally a Tory deal worked out with a Republican Govt, and both parties have traditionally been big defenders of free trade. (Unlike the Liberals, NDP and Democrats)
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #118 on: June 12, 2018, 11:22:15 »
All of this talk of trade boycotts is fine...but do people really understand the level of effort it is going to take to truly decouple the Canadian economy from the US market?

It is going to take a WW2 level of coordinated effort and a lot of the little "provincial" protection crap we put up with is going to have to be sacrificed as we seek new markets and sources of machinery.  In short, it is going to be painful and expensive. Just sayin.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #119 on: June 12, 2018, 13:12:35 »
This is actually funny

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html

If Trudeau was smart he would have told Trump that no Canada did not burn down the White Blue House. It was the British, and then watch him spout off about the Europeans!

Wasn't white at the time, that came after.
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #120 on: June 12, 2018, 13:22:46 »
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 14:08:42 by mariomike »
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #121 on: June 12, 2018, 14:28:44 »
I just read the Trump tweets about how Canada terrorizes the US economy. Has that man ever uttered a real fact in entire his life? Who can possibly believe the trash he trots out? It doesn't even match US govt figures. I mean, politicians like to BS-I get it-but I can't ever recall anybody remotely like this. Certainly not in US history, not even Clinton in his Monica and Whitewater days.

On a more positive note, it was very interesting to see both Doug Ford and Stephen Harper express their support for the Govt as it struggles with resurgent US protectionism and voodoo economics. But I guess it makes sense: some Canadians may have forgotten that Free Trade with the US was originally a Tory deal worked out with a Republican Govt, and both parties have traditionally been big defenders of free trade. (Unlike the Liberals, NDP and Democrats)

Well, after all, he was off to meet with a guy who actually runs his own concentration camp (and ghetto nuclear) program, so he had to look tough. If nothing else, Canada is like the kid you always stuff in the locker in Grade 8: we take a licking and keep coming back to try and be your friend.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #122 on: June 12, 2018, 16:28:19 »
All of this talk of trade boycotts is fine...but do people really understand the level of effort it is going to take to truly decouple the Canadian economy from the US market?

It is going to take a WW2 level of coordinated effort and a lot of the little "provincial" protection crap we put up with is going to have to be sacrificed as we seek new markets and sources of machinery.  In short, it is going to be painful and expensive. Just sayin.
And Trump doesn't get it, he just wants to be able to hit a switch. The F-35 gets parts from Canada, Boeing gets parts from Canada and every other production line in the US that gets parts from Canada and the other way around would have to re-source. The good news is because we pretty much spend dollar for dollar with the US, we could in theory take that money and redirect it into Canada, but that is only in theory, in reality it's a nightmare.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 19:35:24 by AlexanderM »

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #123 on: June 12, 2018, 16:34:33 »
All of this talk of trade boycotts is fine...but do people really understand the level of effort it is going to take to truly decouple the Canadian economy from the US market?

You mean it's harder than just tweeting #BoycottUSA or #buyCanada?
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #124 on: June 12, 2018, 17:00:44 »
 
You mean it's harder than just tweeting #BoycottUSA or #buyCanada?
:nod:

Look- if Canadians really mean it and want to have an immediate effect- don't travel to the US.

No more cross border runs for cheap gas and milk.

No more Disneyland, Arizona in the winter, Disneyworld, New York, Hawaii and Vegas trips.

But that would take self-sacrifice.