Author Topic: Canada-USA trade war.  (Read 32096 times)

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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #375 on: September 02, 2018, 18:48:42 »
50% briefs well, but doesn't withstand 2 minutes of google....

From the Revenu Quebec website:

https://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/citizens/your-situation/new-residents/the-quebec-taxation-system/income-tax-rates/

Quote
INCOME TAX RATES
Tax break
For the 2017 taxation year onward, the income tax rate for individuals has been dropped from 16% to 15% for the first bracket of taxable income. You will be taxed at this new lower rate when you file your income tax return for 2017.

Income tax rates for 2017
The income tax rates for the 2017 taxation year, determined on the basis of your taxable income, are as follows:

Taxable income   Rate
$42,705 or less   15%
More than $42,705, but not more than $85,405   20%
More than $85,405, but not more than $103,915   24%
More than $103,915   25.75%
Income tax rates for 2018
The income tax rates for the 2018 taxation year, determined on the basis of your taxable income, are as follows:

Taxable income   Rate
$43,055 or less   15%
More than $43,055, but not more than $86,105   20%
More than $86,105, but not more than $104,765   24%
More than $104,765   25.75%

And for comparison with other provinces, the Federal website:

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individuals/canadian-income-tax-rates-individuals-current-previous-years.html#provincial

Quote
Provincial and territorial tax rates (combined chart)
Provinces and territories                               Rates
Newfoundland and Labrador   
8.7% on the first $36,926 of taxable income, +
14.5% on the next $36,926, +
15.8% on the next $57,998, +
17.3% on the next $52,740, +
18.3% on the amount over $184,590

Prince Edward Island   
9.8% on the first $31,984 of taxable income, +
13.8% on the next $31,985, +
16.7% on the amount over $63,969

Nova Scotia   
8.79% on the first $29,590 of taxable income, +
14.95% on the next $29,590, +
16.67% on the next $33,820, +
17.5% on the next $57,000, +
21% on the amount over $150,000

New Brunswick   
9.68% on the first $41,675 of taxable income, +
14.82% on the next $41,676, +
16.52% on the next $52,159, +
17.84% on the next $18,872, +
20.3% on the amount over $154,382

Quebec   Go to Income tax rates (Revenu Québec Web site).

Ontario   
5.05% on the first $42,960 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $42,963, +
11.16% on the next $64,077, +
12.16% on the next $70,000, +
13.16 % on the amount over $220,000

Manitoba   
10.8% on the first $31,843 of taxable income, +
12.75% on the next $36,978, +
17.4% on the amount over $68,821

Saskatchewan   
10.5% on the first $45,225 of taxable income, +
12.5% on the next $83,989, +
14.5% on the amount over $129,214

Alberta   
10% on the first $128,145 of taxable income, +
12% on the next $25,628, +
13% on the next $51,258, +
14% on the next $102,516, +
15% on the amount over $307,547

British Columbia   
5.06% on the first $39,676 of taxable income, +
7.7% on the next $39,677, +
10.5% on the next $11,754, +
12.29% on the next $19,523, +
14.7% on the next $39,370, +
16.8% on the amount over $150,000

Yukon   
6.4% on the first $46,605 of taxable income, +
9% on the next $46,603, +
10.9% on the next $51,281, +
12.8% on the next $355,511, +
15% on the amount over $500,000

Northwest Territories   5.9% on the first $42,209 of taxable income, +
8.6% on the next $42,211, +
12.2% on the next $52,828, +
14.05% on the amount over $137,248

Nunavut   
4% on the first $44,437 of taxable income, +
7% on the next $44,437, +
9% on the next $55,614, +
11.5% on the amount over $144,488
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #376 on: September 02, 2018, 19:30:17 »
50% briefs well, but doesn't withstand 2 minutes of google....

So glad you're here to fact check the thread into rabbit holes.

Quebec has the highest tax rates in Canada, and the marginal tax rate for someone over $100,000 when combined with Federal taxes is over 50%. They also have one of the highest provincial sales tax rates in the country. So to get back on topic, if taxes were the answer, Quebec wouldn't need equalization.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #377 on: September 02, 2018, 19:52:40 »
I know it's the Edmonton Sun, but this 'PST' subject was top of mind last Spring around the Alberta budget time...


https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-alberta-sales-tax-is-politically-risky-but-its-good-public-policy
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Offline ballz

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #378 on: September 02, 2018, 20:05:48 »
I know it's the Edmonton Sun, but this 'PST' subject was top of mind last Spring around the Alberta budget time...


https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-alberta-sales-tax-is-politically-risky-but-its-good-public-policy

I don't even need to read the article because I am 100% a proponent of a value-added tax. It is the most efficient tax out there besides a lump-sum tax. I wish we'd increase GST federally and reduce income tax by the equal amount of revenue because a value-added tax is far more efficient. There are no good taxes but it is certainly less evil than most. So the article is just confirmation bias for me, certainly not a counterargument.

However, that does not in any way change the ridiculousness and inaccuracy of your comment re: the "grown ups" who clearly are in no position to be looking down their noses at Alberta.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 20:08:51 by ballz »
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #379 on: September 02, 2018, 21:09:39 »
Doesn't the UK use a VAT in addition to an income tax ?

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #380 on: September 02, 2018, 21:16:07 »
Doesn't the UK use a VAT in addition to an income tax ?

Yes, VAT is very common in the EU. I actually meant to say a consumption tax, not value-added tax (both VAT and Sales Tax are a type of consumption tax). Mea culpa. Consumption taxes in general are far more efficient than income taxes, both because of administering them and also because they don't affect decision-making outcomes as much as income taxes.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #381 on: September 03, 2018, 11:10:47 »
But: politically, income tax rates are much easier to adjust than consumption tax rates.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #382 on: September 03, 2018, 11:32:45 »
Adjusting income tax rates can manipulated to give the appearance of helping the poor while punishing the rich.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #383 on: September 04, 2018, 00:11:21 »
I split the stuff that was related to defence etc and merged it into the US vs Canada thread in the Global Politics sub-forum.

Please keep this thread to generally trade war related issues.

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #384 on: September 04, 2018, 22:56:17 »
For those interested in supporting Canada for this trade war (should be everyone here).  A resource for finding made in Canada companies at: https://www.madeinmooseland.ca .  It looks like it's made be a fellow sailor.  Cheers!


Offline Ashkan08

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #385 on: September 07, 2018, 17:15:44 »
https://globalnews.ca/news/4434583/trump-auto-tariffs-ruination-canada/
Although the auto tariffs would be very damaging to the Canadian economy, someone should tell him that it won't "ruin" Canada as he thinks it will.

Offline Spencer100

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #386 on: September 07, 2018, 18:00:03 »
Trump is right. It would destroy the manufacturing economy in Canada.   Let's go over the list. Volvo bus, Paccar in Quebec. Ford Oakville Ford Windsor engine plants, GM Oshawa. CAMI, St Catharines powertrain Honda Alliston Toyota 2 plants.  FCA Windsor Brampton and Etobicoke  start than is more than seventeen OEM plants.  Now add the hundreds of JIT I plants feeding them and now add the hundreds of other faculties making parts for other NA locations.  Now you are talking hundreds of thousand of jobs. Then add the secondary job in the towns. What are we at now a million.  It will destroy the Canadian economy

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #387 on: September 07, 2018, 19:04:03 »
For every lost job how many people would that affect?  Two to three on average?  Household average, not other industry or services.

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #388 on: September 07, 2018, 19:19:31 »
People with good steady jobs, have more discretionary spending power, that translates into revenue for non related jobs, like golf stores, cooffee shops, clothing stores, restaurants. We used to go my favorite restaurant twice a month, but then cutback to once. The owner noticed this and said "Everyone is doing the same, so for you it's one meal missed, for me it's 500"   

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #389 on: September 07, 2018, 20:23:39 »
>For every lost job how many people would that affect?  Two to three on average?  Household average, not other industry or services.

Depends on the community - size, and number of core primary employers*.  Loss of one primary employer can sometimes be devastating.

*The ones at the bottom of the (now) inverted pyramid.  Historically, primary employers were the broad base of a conventional pyramid (agriculture, resource extraction, manufacturing) with a smaller secondary (common suppliers and services) tier and a much smaller tertiary tier (luxuries, culture, indulgences, specialized professions, etc) on top.  Now, the secondary and tertiary tiers are typically much broader.  When a primary employer goes, the cascading effects (upward) can be much more severe, particularly in the top tier.  Loss of a primary employer in Vancouver is probably not a big deal.  Loss of one of the (three) primary employers in Kamloops would probably mean a severe local recession.

A guess: you could gauge the impact of loss of a major primary employer by measuring the number of high-end cafes and niche restaurants which fail.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #390 on: September 08, 2018, 01:38:57 »
Many people are still forgetting to look at the total environment this is playing out in.

President Trump is putting economic pressure on China through tariffs, which hurts China since they export a lot more to the US than the US exports to China (and China is primarily an export driven economy). Being able to sell less means less money for the Chinese, much like expanded US oil production means less money for Iran, Russia etc.

US trade to Canada is @ 1% of the US GDP, which might make people wonder why Canada is being beaten by a particularly large stick. The true answer is the Administration is closing doors through which China might slip exports into the US free of tariffs. Canada is also likely heavily compromised by the Chinese, politically and economically, and slamming the door is a wake up call to the Canadian establishment to choose carefully who they really want to get in bed with.

Viewed this way, not only do American actions make sense, but it also presages a long and difficult time ahead for Canada should we choose to go with the Chinese over the neighbouring Americans. Closed doors might be very difficult to open again.
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #391 on: September 08, 2018, 09:48:16 »
...US trade to Canada is @ 1% of the US GDP, which might make people wonder why Canada is being beaten by a particularly large stick. The true answer is the Administration is closing doors through which China might slip exports into the US free of tariffs. Canada is also likely heavily compromised by the Chinese, politically and economically, and slamming the door is a wake up call to the Canadian establishment to choose carefully who they really want to get in bed with...

The highest receiver in the World of US goods and services - within a hair of equalling all of US export to the E.U. combined.  Canada is also the most balanced of any trading partner with the US...$282B to $299B.

...and trade to Mexico is 0.86% of the US GDP, and to China is 0.46% of the US GDP, and the % of US GDP just keeps getting smaller from there.

Without trying to use a super small number without context (1% US GDP) to understate an impact, please explain how hobbling your biggest export target market will have barely any repercussions on your own economy?

???

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #392 on: September 12, 2018, 17:17:13 »
Right wing news feed. If interested watch.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/09/11/oh-my-canadian-foreign-minister-left-nafta-negotiations-to-attend-president-trump-is-a-tyrant-conference/

Quote
Oh My – Canadian Foreign Minister Left NAFTA Negotiations To Attend “President Trump is a Tyrant” Conference…
Posted on September 11, 2018   by sundance

Jumpin’ ju-ju bones.  Hat Tip to Ezra Levant on Twitter – This is going to go down in the history books of bad diplomacy.  You have to watch the first 2 minutes of this video.  Canadian Foreign Minister took leave during the middle of critically important trade negotiations with U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer to attend a Women in the World conference in Toronto.

Check out the conference introduction video (first 01:30) “Taking on the Tyrant”, and the visual of Canadian trade negotiator on stage to deliver her remarks (next 30 seconds).  Consider that Ms. Freeland made this decision during the most critical trade negotiations in her country’s modern history.  The outcome of the U.S-Canada trade negotiation will determine the next several decades within the Canadian economy.  Now Watch:


Think about the level of ideological tone-deafness here. This is simply off-the-charts echo-chamber crazy. Canada needs a positive trade outcome; their economy is already on the ropes; and Freeland considers this a good idea?  Unreal.


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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #393 on: September 12, 2018, 17:51:57 »
What is wrong with these peole. It's not what good for Canada; it's what good for the Liberals.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-liberals-eye-potential-electoral-gains-from-taking-on-the-tyrant-trump

John Ivison: Liberals eye potential electoral gains from 'taking on the tyrant' Trump - 12 Sep 18
Reasonable people can debate Trump’s foibles and shortcomings, particularly with regard to immigration and a free press, but Bashar al-Assad he is not

Has Chrystia Freeland given up hope of a renegotiated NAFTA deal and resolved instead to use opposition to Donald Trump in Canada to ramp up domestic support for the Liberals ahead of next year’s general election? How else to explain her appearance at Monday’s Women in the World summit in Toronto, on a panel entitled Taking on the Tyrant? Freeland continues to pay lip-service to the prospect of a deal — that it can be done, with good will and flexibility on all sides.

But how much good will is the notoriously ill-willed Trump likely to extend once he is informed that Canada’s global affairs minister sat on a stage while a video played comparing him to a rogue’s gallery of autocrats including Russia’s Vladimir Putin, Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Syria’s Bashar al-Assad? All these leaders, claimed the video that opened the panel, use “fear, racism, corruption, anti-immigrant sentiment and misinformation to crack down on a free press, rule of law and political freedom to undermine democracy and consolidate power.” Reasonable people can debate Trump’s foibles and shortcomings, particularly with regard to immigration and a free press, but Bashar al-Assad he is not.

For Freeland to tacitly endorse the comparison, the day before she sat across the table from Trump’s trade representative negotiating a deal crucial to this country’s national interest, was grossly irresponsible. Unless, of course, the Trudeau government has already concluded that Trump’s demands on access to Canada’s dairy industry, the dispute-resolution system and cultural exemptions on media ownership and content are so unacceptable they’d be better off politically walking away without a deal and campaigning in the next election on having stood up to Trump.

That certainly seemed to be the tenor of Justin Trudeau’s remarks ahead of the Liberal caucus retreat in Saskatoon Wednesday, where he congratulated Freeland for “standing up for Canadian workers and defending our interests.” Canada would not sign an agreement that is “not to our advantage,” he said in French. “It would be better not to sign any agreement in such a case.” Better off for the Liberal Party perhaps — but for the Canadian economy? Hardly. There is a misplaced sense of confidence on the Canadian side that it is Trump who is in trouble — that if a deal with Canada can’t be struck, the president will be left with a U.S.-Mexico agreement that Congress won’t approve.

But beyond that, there is a worrying evangelistic tone to Liberal rhetoric these days that suggests they might be best served presenting themselves to Canadians as the light of the world, a breakwater against a global tide of populism. It’s not cynical. Many senior Liberals truly believe they have been ordained to fight for Canada at a pivotal moment in its history — the triumph of romanticism over realpolitik. During the Taking on the Tyrant panel Freeland recounted that Trudeau tells his cabinet (so much for confidences) that “Canada didn’t happen by accident, and it won’t continue without intentional effort.”

This sense of manifest destiny will endure, even if a NAFTA deal is struck. But it would be so much more compelling to campaign against the threat to the multilateral rules-based order posed by Trump than to have to exaggerate the menace of Conservative leader Andrew Scheer, widely considered as harmless as a garter snake. This is not to suggest that if a deal is within reach Canada will reject it; just that the Trudeau government has one eye on next year’s election and will not make concessions that will be politically unpalatable, particularly in Quebec.

Securing a commitment from Trump that he will not in future invoke the Section 232 national security provision used to justify steel and aluminum tariffs might be worth risking a breakdown in talks. But protecting the cosseted dairy industry and insisting the dispute-resolution mechanism remains unchanged are not hills to die on. Trudeau said Canada is prepared to be flexible on dairy — yet we were “flexible” with the Europeans, offering an increased quota of cheese that could enter Canada tariff-free. As CBC reported Wednesday, only one third of that quota has been imported, as processors active in the domestic cheese industry have decided they’d prefer to do without the competition. The Americans won’t be fooled in the same manner. On dispute resolution, Trudeau is in “no surrender” mode. The bi-national panels he is intent on keeping are designed as a check on capricious action by the U.S. Yet Canadians who have sat on those panels, such as trade expert James McIlroy, say the U.S. Department of Commerce routinely ignored their rulings because there is no enforcement mechanism.

If Trudeau and Freeland pass up on a deal in order to protect the dairy industry or to ensure the dispute resolution mechanism remains unchanged, it will be because they have calculated there are electoral gains to be made “taking on the tyrant.”
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #394 on: September 13, 2018, 13:59:16 »
So how's this NAFTA deal looking?

Did did we win big  on gender equality, indigenous rights and all that?
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #395 on: September 13, 2018, 15:16:05 »
So how's this NAFTA deal looking?

Did did we win big  on gender equality, indigenous rights and all that?

no clue since none of those seem to be an issue.

But this article from the FP shows that Canada may have some cards to play.

https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/who-has-leverage-at-the-nafta-table-it-might-not-just-be-trump
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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #396 on: September 13, 2018, 23:40:58 »
no clue since none of those seem to be an issue.


Do you mean not an issue originally brought forward or not something that's being discussed now?

I was under the impression that the items I mentioned were initialy brought forward by us when talks began. Am I incorrect?
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Online Remius

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #397 on: September 14, 2018, 05:52:05 »
No I mean that those things don’t seem to be an issue holding anything up.

Either because the clause on gender will have no real teeth or that both sides don’t really care  one way or another. 

Not sure why some here are fixated on something more or less irrelevant.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #398 on: September 14, 2018, 09:40:25 »
No I mean that those things don’t seem to be an issue holding anything up.

Either because the clause on gender will have no real teeth or that both sides don’t really care  one way or another. 

Not sure why some here are fixated on something more or less irrelevant.

The "why" is precisely why I mention it Remus.  NAFTA is a pretty big deal, arguably with a lot of lives on the line.
Why would we open negeoiations with something that has "no real teeth or that both sides don’t really care  one way or another"?  Like some ridiculous 3rd throw away COA.  Something "irrelevant" as you say.

Why bother in the first place? Because of our own great track record with indigenous rights?   

It's more hollow virtue signalling. Often virtue signalling is pretty harmless but our government does a great job of making it bite us in the ***, hopefully it just slides by this time.


« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 09:42:56 by Jarnhamar »
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Online Remius

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Re: Canada-USA trade war.
« Reply #399 on: September 14, 2018, 10:57:17 »
The "why" is precisely why I mention it Remus.  NAFTA is a pretty big deal, arguably with a lot of lives on the line.
Why would we open negeoiations with something that has "no real teeth or that both sides don’t really care  one way or another"?  Like some ridiculous 3rd throw away COA.  Something "irrelevant" as you say.

Why bother in the first place? Because of our own great track record with indigenous rights?   

It's more hollow virtue signalling. Often virtue signalling is pretty harmless but our government does a great job of making it bite us in the ***, hopefully it just slides by this time.

Once again, it does not matter one way or another.  Who cares.  it isn't stalling anything nor is it a point of contention nor is it a show stopper at this point.

There are some circles that want to see Trudeau fail and they want it to be because of some made up BS about it being about gender and indigenous rights because deep down those same circles hate the concept of those things to begin with so want the narrative to go there.

Sunset clause, dispute resolution, supply management and intellectual cultural protections.  Those are the real problems.
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