Author Topic: Prime Minister questioned about expenses  (Read 19252 times)

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Offline Altair

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2018, 13:55:48 »
I wonder if it would make sense to give the responsibility of 24 sussex to the Governor General, and the senate, those who aren't going to be stung with the gotcha nonsense.
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Online Remius

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2018, 14:06:48 »
The best scenario would be for a Prime Minister who won't run again to then just throw money at it before leaving office.   
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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2018, 14:42:25 »
The best scenario would be for a Prime Minister who won't run again to then just throw money at it before leaving office.

Best scenario would be for Canadian's to grow up and realize that maintaining a heritage property like 24 Sussex, and all of the other official residences of government is a part of running a country. We have a large economy, we can afford to keep the leader of our government in a well maintained/updated house. If we can't maybe we need to look at our spending priorities a little more closely...

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2018, 14:45:51 »
Best scenario would be for Canadian's to grow up and realize that maintaining a heritage property like 24 Sussex, and all of the other official residences of government is a part of running a country. We have a large economy, we can afford to keep the leader of our government in a well maintained/updated house. If we can't maybe we need to look at our spending priorities a little more closely...

I don't think you are wrong.  And if it came to new windows or a roof, you know normal stuff, hell even just some decor befitting a head of state.  But:

$7500 for a swing set.
$5000 golf cart.
$8500 for new boat racks.
$13'000 for a new deck
$4000 to wire a new sauna.
$20'000 to groom ski trails

Again anyone who spends that dollar value on those expenses isn't in tune with the middle class.

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Offline Altair

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2018, 14:46:04 »
Best scenario would be for Canadian's to grow up and realize that maintaining a heritage property like 24 Sussex, and all of the other official residences of government is a part of running a country. We have a large economy, we can afford to keep the leader of our government in a well maintained/updated house. If we can't maybe we need to look at our spending priorities a little more closely...
I hear the Prime Ministers plane is starting to break down as well.
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Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2018, 14:50:01 »
I wonder if it would make sense to give the responsibility of 24 sussex to the Governor General, and the senate, those who aren't going to be stung with the gotcha nonsense.

How does it help to give responsibility to either of these two entities, neither of which have any authority to appropriate  money?  None of the current residents of the official residences have any authority to arbitrarily undertake renovations or purchase with public funds any furniture, equipment or toys.  To put it in military terms, they're living in PMQs, a bit upmarket PMQ, but government housing just the same.  All the rules necessary are already in place and have been for decades.  From the Official Residences Act to the Management Principles for the Official Residences of Canada which guides the National Capital Commission who have the responsibility that you suggest should go elsewhere.
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Offline Altair

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2018, 14:58:35 »
How does it help to give responsibility to either of these two entities, neither of which have any authority to appropriate  money?  None of the current residents of the official residences have any authority to arbitrarily undertake renovations or purchase with public funds any furniture, equipment or toys.  To put it in military terms, they're living in PMQs, a bit upmarket PMQ, but government housing just the same.  All the rules necessary are already in place and have been for decades.  From the Official Residences Act to the Management Principles for the Official Residences of Canada which guides the National Capital Commission who have the responsibility that you suggest should go elsewhere.
Guess it doesn't work.

Either way, with the politics being played with these issues, the house is going to need to be torn down before it it ever renovated.

And the Prime Ministers plane is going to be grounded before it's replaced, and whatever Prime Minister this happens to is going to make a great show of flying commercial, even if it is first class.
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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2018, 15:34:11 »
I wonder if it would make sense to give the responsibility of 24 sussex to the Governor General, and the senate, those who aren't going to be stung with the gotcha nonsense.

The Queen...through the GG, is not our dumping ground for political issues we, as Canadians, are able to deal with ourselves.
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2018, 15:42:38 »
I don't think you are wrong.  And if it came to new windows or a roof, you know normal stuff, hell even just some decor befitting a head of state.  But:

$7500 for a swing set.
$5000 golf cart.
$8500 for new boat racks.
$13'000 for a new deck
$4000 to wire a new sauna.
$20'000 to groom ski trails

Again anyone who spends that dollar value on those expenses isn't in tune with the middle class.

I think maybe your definition of the middle class might need updating. $13000K to remove an old deck and replace it isn't that far off if you are paying a contractor. I'm sure the "swing set" is probably a city park quality affair, which will serve future PMs, so, once again, not that expensive all things considered. I know plenty of older, retired middle class people who own golf carts, and lots of younger families who own $12-15K quads, side by sides etc. Lots of middle class folks getting into cottages, and installing boats launches, docks, etc.
Sure, not many middle class people pay to groom a ski trail. I'll give you that.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2018, 16:08:37 »
I want to guess the PMs  $127,187*  $215,398 island vacation trip contributes to a lot of the suspicion surrounding the PM and anytime taxpayers dollars are used for what is or may appear to be personal use. The carbon tax, where actual cost data from an analysis is blacked out, probably doesn't help either. I think I read somewhere it's estimated to cost the average household an extra $5000? Almost enough for a swingset :D   (But enough for a Nemesis Vanquish!)

Agree upkeep costs a lot of money and it's obvious why PMs in the past didn't want to risk the whole game of "Ah ha gotchya!" which isn't fair to the PM in all honesty but this government isn't doing itself any favors either when it comes to being shady.

Once again a 15 second response in parliament could have took the wind out of conservative sales and forced us to dig a little deeper for the outrage of the week.





* https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-bahamas-vacation-rcmp-1.4286033  - Trudeau's Bahamas vacation cost over $215K — far more than initially disclosed
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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2018, 17:16:09 »
Guess it doesn't work.

Either way, with the politics being played with these issues, the house is going to need to be torn down before it it ever renovated.

And the Prime Ministers plane is going to be grounded before it's replaced, and whatever Prime Minister this happens to is going to make a great show of flying commercial, even if it is first class.

How is this any different from the politics played by the Liberals for "full life cycle" costing on the F-35 that scuttled the purchase, or cancelling the EH101 delaying Sea King replacements for 20 years?

Asking Canadian politicians to not use needed expenses (military or heritage homes) for political points is like asking a leopard to change its spots.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2018, 17:46:59 »
I think maybe your definition of the middle class might need updating. $13000K to remove an old deck and replace it isn't that far off if you are paying a contractor. I'm sure the "swing set" is probably a city park quality affair, which will serve future PMs, so, once again, not that expensive all things considered. I know plenty of older, retired middle class people who own golf carts, and lots of younger families who own $12-15K quads, side by sides etc. Lots of middle class folks getting into cottages, and installing boats launches, docks, etc.
Sure, not many middle class people pay to groom a ski trail. I'll give you that.

but how many of them are actually paying for these items rather than going into debt for them?  According to some reports the middle class is heavily in debt and sinking.


I have the view point that yes we need to maintain these places and it is well overdue but this is beyond that.

swing set - I lived in PMQs and rented places.  I also bought a swing set for my kids (a lot cheaper) and installed them myself.  My landlords didn't pay for the installation.  Serving future PMs is a maybe and really has no bearing as it is still his choice to have it. Maybe the next PM will insist it is a hazard and have it removed as it became termite infested and is falling apart.
golf cart. - as someone mentioned this is an active family so why do they need a $5k golf cart.  Walk or pay for it yourself.  Enjoy the active lifestyle.
$8500 for new boat racks - possibly part of the maintenance that was long overdue.
$13'000 for a new deck - again possible if it was done to the original design and not extravagantly changed which most likely happened.  We will pay to restore and you pay for everything you want beyond that.
$4000 to wire a new sauna - not thinking this is maintenance on a house that is so old.  This sounds like an I want this.  Sure you could try it with a landlord but I am betting that if they did agree you are footing the bill and not them.  I wonder how much of the house could have been rewired for that amount.
$20'000 to groom ski trails - nope. Not buying it at all.  ski on the clean and natural snow like so many skiers want.  My sister and her husband loved getting out on the trails first before anyone could groom and ruin it.  According to them real skiers don't want groomed. 

Also middle class is such a wildly loose term as it really isn't the same everywhere.  According to StatsCan in 2016 using 2015 data collected the middle class for overall Canada was $33-130k.  Quite a wide spread.  Then they break it down into areas:

Vancouver - $31-137k
Fort McMurray - $91-297k
Regina - $40-141k
Toronto - $35-147k
Montreal - $29-116k
Thetford Mines - $25-87k
Fredericton - $32-119k
Charlottetown - $30-114k
Halifax - $32-125k
St John's - $35-147k

The PM once described a typical middle-class Canadian family of four as one with $90,000 in household income.

So when talking about the middle class I take it that he is referring to the high end of the scale and not the bottom or even where I am at.
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Offline Altair

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2018, 17:53:48 »
This is a very canadian scandal.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2018, 19:26:57 »
In May 2017 the Ottawa citizen wrote an article about the maintance of the place and how over $500'000 went into it in two years.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/bills-at-pms-country-home-add-up-to-nearly-500k

« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 19:36:10 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2018, 19:34:07 »
I think maybe your definition of the middle class might need updating. $13000K to remove an old deck and replace it isn't that far off if you are paying a contractor. I'm sure the "swing set" is probably a city park quality affair, which will serve future PMs, so, once again, not that expensive all things considered. I know plenty of older, retired middle class people who own golf carts, and lots of younger families who own $12-15K quads, side by sides etc. Lots of middle class folks getting into cottages, and installing boats launches, docks, etc.
Sure, not many middle class people pay to groom a ski trail. I'll give you that.

1) 13K for a new deck is ridiculous.  Thats gotta be some deck.

2) A city park quality swing set ?  Yup thats on par with the middle class who actually goes to city parks to use those swing sets.

3) I don't know a single person, retired or not, who owns a golf cart.  You do ?

4) I know of 2 quads in my circle.  1 was free from a father to his son, not me.  The other is at our hunting camp.  It was bought in '96 and its held together by prayers and gorilla tape. Oh and our camp was bought in the 70s for less than my 1/2 months pay cheque by my wifes uncle.

5) I have one friend who owns cottage.  Hes a doctor, president of major provincial political party and his wife is a real estate agent.  Cottages are out of reach for the middle class now.  They are well in the neighborhood of a second mortgage now. 

(5 a) We bought a used camper for pennies because we became frustrated at how out of our reach a cottage had become. 

5) None of my friends own a boat, or a dock to tie it up too.

I am not sure we run in the same social/economic standing my friend.  And me and my wife both make excellent pay cheques.  Shes a teacher, and I am a PO2 Storesman. 
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Online Remius

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2018, 20:36:49 »
1) 13K for a new deck is ridiculous.  Thats gotta be some deck.

2) A city park quality swing set ?  Yup thats on par with the middle class who actually goes to city parks to use those swing sets.

3) I don't know a single person, retired or not, who owns a golf cart.  You do ?

4) I know of 2 quads in my circle.  1 was free from a father to his son, not me.  The other is at our hunting camp.  It was bought in '96 and its held together by prayers and gorilla tape. Oh and our camp was bought in the 70s for less than my 1/2 months pay cheque by my wifes uncle.

5) I have one friend who owns cottage.  Hes a doctor, president of major provincial political party and his wife is a real estate agent.  Cottages are out of reach for the middle class now.  They are well in the neighborhood of a second mortgage now. 

(5 a) We bought a used camper for pennies because we became frustrated at how out of our reach a cottage had become. 

5) None of my friends own a boat, or a dock to tie it up too.

I am not sure we run in the same social/economic standing my friend.  And me and my wife both make excellent pay cheques.  Shes a teacher, and I am a PO2 Storesman.
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Online Remius

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2018, 21:11:21 »
iPad issues.. :'(

Sorry.

1) 13K for a new deck is ridiculous.  Thats gotta be some deck.

2) A city park quality swing set ?  Yup thats on par with the middle class who actually goes to city parks to use those swing sets.

3) I don't know a single person, retired or not, who owns a golf cart.  You do ?

4) I know of 2 quads in my circle.  1 was free from a father to his son, not me.  The other is at our hunting camp.  It was bought in '96 and its held together by prayers and gorilla tape. Oh and our camp was bought in the 70s for less than my 1/2 months pay cheque by my wifes uncle.

5) I have one friend who owns cottage.  Hes a doctor, president of major provincial political party and his wife is a real estate agent.  Cottages are out of reach for the middle class now.  They are well in the neighborhood of a second mortgage now. 

(5 a) We bought a used camper for pennies because we became frustrated at how out of our reach a cottage had become. 

5) None of my friends own a boat, or a dock to tie it up too.

I am not sure we run in the same social/economic standing my friend.  And me and my wife both make excellent pay cheques.  Shes a teacher, and I am a PO2 Storesman.

So, here is a link to having a deck built.  No clue what the square footage is.

https://www.trex.com/products/deck-cost-landing/productcalculator/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpcLZBRCnARIsAMPBgF2V4_bNkRWAsm0TCzRHsa9Qnr3hul1wEOFgXcGYOe5DOd92zGgc6OIaAhpaEALw_wcB

Play structure. Ok here is one at Wayfair.  https://www.wayfair.ca/baby-kids/pdp/backyard-discovery-safari-cedar-all-cedar-swing-set-bkyo1009.html  For 10,000$.  That being the more expensive one.  He’s paying 7500 of his own money. Who cares, he’s paying for it.

The golf cart is also used by staff.  Rideau Hall has several as well. 

The prime minister also does not own this cottage.  He gets to use it.  Want to use it? Become the Prime Minister.  I know plenty of “middle class” with a cottage.  Not a Harrington lake cottage but the PM doesn’t own that either.

I have a few friends with boats.  One former co worker travelling with theirs for six months. Ex RMS Sgt. 

He’s the PM.  Once you become PM you aren’t middle class anymore.  Few are middle class before they become PM.

What’s funny is that Andrew Scheer had no problem living in tax payer provided housing when he was speaker or as opposition leader.

Here is a comment he made on that residence:


https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/27/andrew-scheer-speaker-house-commons_n_8665202.html

“Scheer said he doesn't think abandoning Kingsmere would save money, because the National Capital Commission, which is responsible for official residences, would still have to maintain the property, renovate it and keep the heat on. "So they might as well use it, and they might as well, as I tried to, share it with parliamentarians."

Again, our Prime Minister isn’t middle class (none are) and we should stop imposing that standard on them and more importantly on the Office of the PM.

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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2018, 21:29:23 »
Speaking of decks, here's the lower end of the middle class talking about their decks: https://youtu.be/KW5rhvmAu0c
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2018, 21:32:12 »
iPad issues.. :'(

Sorry.

So, here is a link to having a deck built.  No clue what the square footage is.

https://www.trex.com/products/deck-cost-landing/productcalculator/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpcLZBRCnARIsAMPBgF2V4_bNkRWAsm0TCzRHsa9Qnr3hul1wEOFgXcGYOe5DOd92zGgc6OIaAhpaEALw_wcB

Play structure. Ok here is one at Wayfair.  https://www.wayfair.ca/baby-kids/pdp/backyard-discovery-safari-cedar-all-cedar-swing-set-bkyo1009.html  For 10,000$.  That being the more expensive one.  He’s paying 7500 of his own money. Who cares, he’s paying for it.

Is he ?  He didnt say that in the HOC.  Why didnt he just say that ?   

The golf cart is also used by staff.  Rideau Hall has several as well.

Well the surly need another

The prime minister also does not own this cottage.  He gets to use it.  Want to use it? Become the Prime Minister.  I know plenty of “middle class” with a cottage.  Not a Harrington lake cottage but the PM doesn’t own that either.

I didn't bring up cottage ownership.  captloadie did.  All these "middle class" people who bought cottages must be in a different middle class than I know or they don't care about personal debt or they bought decades ago when they were affordable or it was inherited.

I have a few friends with boats.  One former co worker travelling with theirs for six months. Ex RMS Sgt.

Sure.  What don't they have to compensate for that boat they are sailing on for 6 months ?

He’s the PM.  Once you become PM you aren’t middle class anymore.  Few are middle class before they become PM.

What’s funny is that Andrew Scheer had no problem living in tax payer provided housing when he was speaker or as opposition leader.

Here is a comment he made on that residence:


https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/27/andrew-scheer-speaker-house-commons_n_8665202.html

“Scheer said he doesn't think abandoning Kingsmere would save money, because the National Capital Commission, which is responsible for official residences, would still have to maintain the property, renovate it and keep the heat on. "So they might as well use it, and they might as well, as I tried to, share it with parliamentarians."

Again, our Prime Minister isn’t middle class (none are) and we should stop imposing that standard on them and more importantly on the Office of the PM.

I have no issue with honest upgrades or repairs.  Even something that is befitting a head of state, I think I said this already in this thread. 

I don't begrudge him having tax payer residences, or any elected official for that matter that that entitlement is deemed appropriate for.  Im coo wit dat.

What I am not cool with is this is the PM of the same party who went ballistic over a 16$ glass of orange juice while in opposition, who also took a pretty shady and apparently overstaffed and unethical vacation with the Aga Khan,  who told my I was asking too much if I become wounded, who lied to me about life long pensions for wounded vets, who lied to me about electoral reform, who lied to me about lowering the federal debt, and all the while claiming to be a champion of the ever dwindling middle class.  And then thinking:

$7500 for a swing set.
$5000 golf cart.
$8500 for new boat racks.
$13'000 for a new deck
$4000 to wire a new sauna.
$20'000 to groom ski trails

Are all purchases that endear to the middle class.

Oh ya, I voted for Trudeau too.  He's got an uphill road to climb to get that vote a second time. 
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2018, 21:39:18 »
You never voted Trudeau, unless you live in his riding / have made your SOR declaration to be his riding.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2018, 21:41:57 »
You never voted Trudeau, unless you live in his riding / have made your SOR declaration to be his riding.

I stand corrected.  I voted for Geoff Regan.  I will say it was personally in support of Trudeau.  I sadly contributed to the red wave that swept the Maritimes.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2018, 21:51:21 »
You have to able to afford to live in his riding, just kidding it's a very mixed income riding.  See this article here and read between the lines: http://o.canada.com/news/justin-trudeau-admits-that-he-won-the-lottery-with-1-2-million-inheritance-and-successful-speaking-business

Unlike many middle class Canadians, outside of his federal pension he has a cash safety net that seems substantial but not overwhelming.
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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2018, 09:43:10 »
If it makes people feel better, pretty sure the cost of the deck is actually for the deck AND the dock, both of which had to be replaced.

Overall, the only thing that bothers me is the grooming of the trails for a few reasons, the biggest being that they are under a contract and would get paid whether it snowed or not. And then, if there is a higher than planned for snowfall the company gets paid more. So the price will only ever go up and never down from the contracted agreement.

And really, the only people using the trail are the family and guests at the residence and is a yearly contract. Whereas all the other fixes are one time purchases that will be topped up as needed, but not likely at a yearly rate.
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Offline Altair

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Re: Prime Minister questioned about expenses
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2018, 10:03:47 »
A G7 country, with a 2 trillion dollar economy, a government running a deficit of 18 billion dollars, out of a total of 338 billion dollars spent, getting worked up about 60 thousand dollars of work around the Prime Ministers properties.

It's kind of cute really.
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