Author Topic: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months  (Read 8732 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 286,196
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,709
Pretty intense story.

12 boys and their coach decided to go exploring a cave in Thailand.  A flash rainstorm hit and blocked off the path out of the cave and it remains under water.

They were found after 9 days later by divers, stuck 3 kilometers inside the cave system (and 1km below the surface) on a little dirt mound.  Because of the high water lever and narrow passages, they may be stuck on that dirt mound for 4 months.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44692813


There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 105,095
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,554
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 12:41:34 »
Get stuck or learn to scuba.I think the scuba option may be best.

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 107,465
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,236
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 14:15:57 »
A 2.5 kilometer swim in cramped space moving a meter every 5 mins or so is what they've been saying.  So about an 8 hour dive and none of these kids can swim.  There is no best option.
Optio

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 208,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,920
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2018, 15:05:21 »
How was the 3mm/sec swim rate determined?  Is there a strong current flowing into the cave? 

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 107,465
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,236
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2018, 15:20:29 »
How was the 3mm/sec swim rate determined?  Is there a strong current flowing into the cave?

Not sure. Probably an estimate from the experts on the ground.

This article shows some of the challenges.  Experienced cave divers take three hours to get there.  Now add the fact that they might have to be tethered.  That might be the reason and I could see how it could significantly slow them down considering they can't swim or know how to dive at all.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-04/why-doesnt-the-thai-soccer-team-dive-out-of-the-cave/9938148     
Optio

Offline Blackadder1916

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 174,140
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,895
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2018, 16:10:02 »
Here's a local to Thailand site that gives a reasonable running description of the search operation with some interesting graphics of the cave system.  http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/live-updates-teenager-football-team-trapped-thai-cave/
Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 139,185
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,324
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2018, 16:53:05 »
One option is to widen some of the tight spots with hydraulic chisels. Right now they have the kids and a method to resupply. Time to slow down and think the next stage through and consider a variety of options. I suspect many countries are offering up specialty equipment, resource and personal. 

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 105,095
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,554
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2018, 10:38:03 »
Dewatering is making another option possible- walking out. The rescuers claim to have pumped out 40% of the water.Maybe they could lower the water to use small boats ?

Offline Pusser

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 86,495
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,826
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2018, 14:48:45 »
I gather they're having difficulty pumping out the water fast enough and they're expecting massive amounts of rain, which will fill the caves up again.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 215,847
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,410
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2018, 15:45:46 »
One article that I read stated that the tunnel is so cramped in at least one area that tanks cannot be worn. That severely limits options.

Attempting to "widen", which would have to be both vertically and horizontally, has difficulties and risks - chiselling in such cramped quarters would be difficult to impossible, chiselled-off stone would have to be cleared out to have any benefit, and a cave-in would be lethal to rescuers and rescues.

Being stuck for a few months appears to be the least-sucky option, so far.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 112,049
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,008
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2018, 15:57:15 »
One article that I read stated that the tunnel is so cramped in at least one area that tanks cannot be worn. That severely limits options.

Attempting to "widen", which would have to be both vertically and horizontally, has difficulties and risks - chiselling in such cramped quarters would be difficult to impossible, chiselled-off stone would have to be cleared out to have any benefit, and a cave-in would be lethal to rescuers and rescues.

Being stuck for a few months appears to be the least-sucky option, so far.

Bring in a mine rescue team.  That option should be examined, they may be able to drill a rescue shaft to them. 

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 286,196
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,709
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2018, 16:18:04 »
Read this on Wikipedia
Quote
Shaft sinking is one of the most difficult of all development methods: restricted space, gravity, groundwater and specialized procedures make the task quite formidable.[2]

Historically mine shaft sinking has been among the most dangerous of all the mining occupations and the preserve of mining contractors called sinkers.[3] Today shaft sinking contractors are concentrated in Canada, Germany and South Africa.

4 months on that little mound I'm guessing air would be a problem as well as sanitation.

Maybe Wainwright can send them all their shitter bags and we can shut down MR18 or MR19, you know to do our part.

There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 105,095
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,554

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 139,185
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,324
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2018, 16:32:08 »
One article that I read stated that the tunnel is so cramped in at least one area that tanks cannot be worn. That severely limits options.

Attempting to "widen", which would have to be both vertically and horizontally, has difficulties and risks - chiselling in such cramped quarters would be difficult to impossible, chiselled-off stone would have to be cleared out to have any benefit, and a cave-in would be lethal to rescuers and rescues.

Being stuck for a few months appears to be the least-sucky option, so far.

Having been in some gold mines you be surprised how little room there is when they are following a vein in a drift. As for the mucking out, labour is cheap there. You be amazed how fast they can tunnel. Other Miners would be following right along to brace the wider opening.

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 105,095
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,554
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2018, 16:46:52 »
Thai's are very resourceful.

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 235,560
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,398
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2018, 16:51:36 »
Thai's are very resourceful.

Like the quirky British volunteers who helped find them!
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 208,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,920
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2018, 16:54:36 »
Like the quirky British volunteers who helped find them by taking just not enough rope...!

#whewthatworkedoutwell


The boys seemed in pretty good spirits all things told!

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 215,847
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,410
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2018, 17:18:02 »
As for the mucking out, labour is cheap there. You be amazed how fast they can tunnel. Other Miners would be following right along to brace the wider opening.

But can they do it under water, which I understand is somewhat muddy, in the dark, while wearing breathing apparatus?

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 235,560
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,398
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2018, 19:05:06 »
But can they do it under water, which I understand is somewhat muddy, in the dark, while wearing breathing apparatus?

If they were chubby, basement dwelling, entitled, first world nation millennials then no... not a chance :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 105,095
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,554
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2018, 19:17:28 »
I guess the rescuers are looking for a back way into the cave system.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 139,185
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,324
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2018, 19:46:39 »
But can they do it under water, which I understand is somewhat muddy, in the dark, while wearing breathing apparatus?

Having watch 3rd worlders work in the mining business, I would say they could achieve more than you expect, because they are willing to take greater risks and do stuff most Canadians won't.

One thing they could do on the surface is attempt to figure out what are the major sources of water coming in and divert them away, meaning the pumps can achieve more impact.

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 107,465
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,236
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2018, 20:35:08 »


One thing they could do on the surface is attempt to figure out what are the major sources of water coming in and divert them away, meaning the pumps can achieve more impact.

I believe torrential rain is one of those major sources.
Optio

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 235,560
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,398
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2018, 22:54:06 »
Having watch 3rd worlders work in the mining business, I would say they could achieve more than you expect, because they are willing to take greater risks and do stuff most Canadians won't.


And, sadly, one of them is now dead:

Thai cave rescuer dies from lack of oxygen

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/thai-cave-rescue-nave-seal-death-oxygen-1.4736079?cid=

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Blackadder1916

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 174,140
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,895
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2018, 00:49:02 »
It's never too early to start capitalizing on disaster.  (That's sarcasm for those who can't pickup on the tone)


https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/asia/disaster-cave-slated-thailands-next-tourist-attraction.html
Quote
Disaster cave to be next tourist attraction

By Bangkok Post 4 July 2018

BANGKOK — The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) plans to promote Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai province as a key attraction after its time in the global spotlight, which climaxed with the missing soccer team of 13 being found alive on Monday night.

Karuna Dechatiwong, director of TAT’s Chiang Rai office, said the agency will work with local authorities and the private sector to promote the cave and other attractive nearby venues as it anticipates a number of tourists will flock to the area in the near future.

“After the rescue team found the 12 young soccer players and their coach on Monday night, the cave has become of interest for both local and foreign travelers,” Karuna said.

She said people may want travel and activity information before visiting the area, and the agency is ready to work out a route to the cave and other destinations in Chiang Rai.

The tranquil and beautiful cave in Khun Nam Nang Non Forest Park in Mae Sai district is suited to the summer season, but permission from authorities is needed before entering in the rainy season.

Initially, TAT is considering creating a new route not only to promote the cave but also nearby communities such as a village that makes mulberry tree paper, an Isan Lanna community, and a community that produces seed tea.

All the communities are located along the road in between Chiang Rai town and Mae Sai on the border with Myanmar.

TAT will ask local administrations to prepare tourism management, improve safety standards and upgrade services, she said.

The promotion of Chiang Rai province as an adventure destination was also floated by Tourism and Sports Minister Weerasak Kowsurat and Chiang Rai Governor Narongsak Osot-Thanakorn. The two also talked with hotels and transport companies in Chiang Rai to arrange an appreciation trip specifically for the rescue teams.

TAT Chiang Rai reported the province attracted 2.7 million tourists last year and generated tourism income of nearly 30 billion baht (US$905 million). The number of visitors is expected to increase gradually as the province also plans to promote elderly tourism along with adventure and cross-border tourism.

Earlier this year, the renovated river port in Chiang Saen was opened to serve higher demand from southern China.
Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 497,810
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,198
    • The job.
Re: Kids football team could be stuck in cave for months
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2018, 07:49:32 »
It's never too early to start capitalizing on disaster. 

"Disaster cave to be next tourist attraction"

Reminds me of a cave incident years ago.

Media attention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Collins#Media_attention
"Shortly after the media arrived, the publicity drew crowds of tourists to the site, at one point numbering in the tens of thousands. Vendors set up stalls to sell food and souvenirs, creating a circus-like atmosphere."

Exhibition of the body
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Collins#Burial_and_exhibition_of_body
"The new owner placed Collins' body in a glass-topped coffin and exhibited it in Crystal Cave for many years."
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 09:22:38 by mariomike »