Author Topic: New Ontario Government 2018  (Read 26202 times)

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Online MARS

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New Ontario Government 2018
« on: July 17, 2018, 13:36:26 »
One guess, and that's all it is, is that the Liberal's polling says that the NDP's momentum has stalled, even slipped away and the Conservatives are headed towards a comfortable majority ... that will spell trouble for the Liberals because the PCPO will, very likely, want to open two or three judicial inquiries into various things that were done by both the McGuinty and Wynne administrations ... a Horwath government that depends upon LPO support might be willing to overlook the past 15 years.

Maybe she's making a 'Hail Mary' play to try to stave off something worse than just losing the election.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/doug-ford-to-announce-inquiry-into-previous-liberal-governments-spending
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Offline pbi

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 13:51:11 »
I certainly agree that there are probably things in the Liberal closet that need to be dragged out into the daylight. In Canada, this is likely true of any Govt, Provincial or Federal, that has done at least two terms. I just don't think that the present Ontario Govt should put any energy or horsepower into that, until it has come to grips with some far more important and pressing issues.

Vengeance is not really important right now, no matter how good it might feel.
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Offline FJAG

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 14:26:34 »
I certainly agree that there are probably things in the Liberal closet that need to be dragged out into the daylight. In Canada, this is likely true of any Govt, Provincial or Federal, that has done at least two terms. I just don't think that the present Ontario Govt should put any energy or horsepower into that, until it has come to grips with some far more important and pressing issues.

Vengeance is not really important right now, no matter how good it might feel.

True enough but there is always room for concurrent activity. If the backroom story behind these money wasting activities aren't brought to light in the near future, they'll be forgotten.

 :cheers:
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Offline Remius

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 14:27:58 »
True enough but there is always room for concurrent activity. If the backroom story behind these money wasting activities aren't brought to light in the near future, they'll be forgotten.

 :cheers:

Agreed.  And if the province wants to move forward it needs a full picture.
Optio

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 15:20:12 »
This is not about vengeance or payback. It's about getting things in order before the next election. Its going to take a lot of time to do a line search and connect the dots. It has to be completed and actioned before a new campaign starts. We won't get that unless we start now. The books are wrong. We can't spend or move forward until we know what the socialists left in the bank. If anything. I think it's going to be worse news than better. The previous government was dishonest. Thĺey simply cannot be taken at their word. I hope Scheer does the same to Trudeau and his bunch.


edit for spelling
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 16:54:34 by recceguy »
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Offline Altair

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2018, 15:43:30 »
This is not about vengeance or payback. It's about getting things in order before the next election. Its going to take a lot of time to do a line search and connect the dots. It has to be completed and auctioned before a new campaign starts. We won't get that unless we start now. The books are wrong. We can't spend or move forward until we know what the socialists left in the bank. If anything. I think it's going to be worse news than better. The previous government was dishonest. Thĺey simply cannot be taken at their word. I hope Scheer does the same to Trudeau and his bunch.
Scheer still going to be the leader in 2023?

Figured it would be MacKay by then

 ;D
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Offline YZT580

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2018, 15:49:49 »
ordinarily I would agree with you Altair but at the rate he is going Justin could end up as a one-term wonder.  His government is rapidly approaching its best-before date unless the coming cabinet shuffle succeeds in pushing the re-start button.

Offline Altair

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2018, 15:58:33 »
ordinarily I would agree with you Altair but at the rate he is going Justin could end up as a one-term wonder.  His government is rapidly approaching its best-before date unless the coming cabinet shuffle succeeds in pushing the re-start button.

He campaigns pretty well, and he's currently running against himself.

And Scheer is out doing stuff like this right now, which is flying under the radar

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-globe-editorial-andrew-scheers-cheesy-trade-war-politics/

Quote
Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer did his part on Tuesday when he released a statement criticizing not U.S. President Donald Trump, who capriciously imposed levies on Canadian steel and aluminum last week, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for the crime of announcing “flexibility” in his position on access to the Canadian dairy market.

Mr. Scheer called any weakening of the tariffs that shield Canadian milk, eggs and poultry from foreign competition “totally unacceptable” and accused the PM of being duplicitous for saying otherwise to an American audience.

The most galling thing about this attack on the PM was not that the Conservative stance on supply management is dead wrong. All three major parties have, in the past, steadfastly supported the antiquated and expensive fixed prices, production quotas and trade barriers that protect dairy and poultry farming in Canada, so Mr. Scheer is not alone in this.

As well, the hypocrisy of the Tories, Canada’s party of economic liberalism, backing a protectionist price-fixing scheme that costs consumers dearly is obvious enough.

No, it’s the way the party, and Mr. Scheer in particular, came to their wrong-headed position that is most troubling.

The party is led by a man who secured his job in large part thanks to the votes of insta-Conservative dairy farmers who signed up in key Quebec ridings to defeat Mr. Scheer’s libertarian rival, Maxime Bernier, in the 2017 leadership race.

Boots Bernier out of shadow cabinet, check.

Criticizes PM about failing to stand up for supply management, check.

You see where this is going.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2018, 16:01:27 »
Liberal slush fund aka cap and trade is gone.

Ontario Hydro mafia is out.

Liberals lost party status.

Things are looking up.
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Offline Remius

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2018, 16:16:52 »
So far so good for Ontario.
Optio

Offline pbi

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 17:20:20 »
True enough but there is always room for concurrent activity. If the backroom story behind these money wasting activities aren't brought to light in the near future, they'll be forgotten.

 :cheers:
Perhaps. But in my opinion, that isn't the nearest, or even the second nearest, crocodile right now. And Canadian governments, of all stripes and persuasions, have a nasty historical habit of of blaming their inability to deliver XYZ because The Previous Govt robbed the piggy bank, or cooked the books. I would have thought that any normal handover process of Govt would include a full audit of books as an SOP: nothing to trumpet about.

Just saying...
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Offline Brihard

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 17:34:41 »

Ontario Hydro mafia is out.

I'll reserve judgment until compensation figures for the new president and board are made public.
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2018, 17:40:43 »
Split this stuff on its own as the election is over. I'll leave the other thread open as there's always stuff that comes up relating to the election's conduct/voter turnout/etc a couple months after the polls close.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2018, 17:44:24 »
I'll reserve judgment until compensation figures for the new president and board are made public.

Sounds like they'll still retain stocks, benefits and a bunch of other crap.  Which really shouldn't surprise anyone because these people really dig themselves in WW1 style to the system.  CEO was expecting 10+ million and would be entitled to all kids of benefits. He's supposedly getting $400'000 and will still get the same benefits, which I've read could be as much as 5 mill.  Still pricey but I think getting those guys and girls out of Hydro One would be a victory for Ontario even IF they got their full severance.

Edited to add I mean the old crew. Good point about the new one but can't imagine it being worse than what we had.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 19:14:30 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2018, 19:09:19 »
Sounds like they'll still retain stocks, benefits and a bunch of other crap.  Which really shouldn't surprise anyone because these people really dig themselves in WW1 style to the system.  CEO was expecting 10+ million and would be entitled to all kids of benefits. He's supposedly getting $400'000 and will still get the same benefits, which I've read could be as much as 5 mill.  Still pricey but I think getting those guys and girls out of Hydro One would be a victory for Ontario even IF they got their full severance.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2018, 19:13:55 »
Sounds like they'll still retain stocks, benefits and a bunch of other crap.  Which really shouldn't surprise anyone because these people really dig themselves in WW1 style to the system.  CEO was expecting 10+ million and would be entitled to all kids of benefits. He's supposedly getting $400'000 and will still get the same benefits, which I've read could be as much as 5 mill.  Still pricey but I think getting those guys and girls out of Hydro One would be a victory for Ontario even IF they got their full severance.

I'm skeptical that Hydro One will have much success attracting executive talent with compensation packages that are smaller enough to put the wind in Ford's sails on this one... We shall see of course- but my understanding is that the province holds just less than a majority of Hydro One shares. They are not in a position to completely control matters, and the rest of the shareholders will only care about their return on investment.

One would have thought that as a Conservative premier, Ford would have preferred to simply divest the province of the corporation entirely.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2018, 21:19:32 »
Getting the books right doesn't require an investigation.  The finance department is entirely capable of producing documents which show the state of affairs and of highlighting any creative accounting tricks.

Investigations would properly be aimed at suspected corruption, particularly flows of money to where none should have gone.
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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2018, 21:34:47 »
Getting the books right doesn't require an investigation.  The finance department is entirely capable of producing documents which show the state of affairs and of highlighting any creative accounting tricks.

Investigations would properly be aimed at suspected corruption, particularly flows of money to where none should have gone.

I'm generally not a believer in the conspiracy theories about civil servants being in bed with certain political parties, but the Liberals have held power here since 2004 under both the McGuinty and Wynne regimes so there has been more than enough time to both develop such relationships and departments to have buried the bodies.

I think that the financial data may be there but  whether it will be presented in context and with the relevant internal communications (especially considering the deletion of emails by Livingston scandal/conviction) still leaves room for a forensic accounting by an outside firm.

I tend to agree that the new cabinet shouldn't waste time and energy on this which is why having an outside firm do the work and render a report makes sense. Last news report I saw said that it should take some five weeks.

 :cheers:
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Offline suffolkowner

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2018, 22:00:15 »
I'm skeptical that Hydro One will have much success attracting executive talent with compensation packages that are smaller enough to put the wind in Ford's sails on this one... We shall see of course- but my understanding is that the province holds just less than a majority of Hydro One shares. They are not in a position to completely control matters, and the rest of the shareholders will only care about their return on investment.

One would have thought that as a Conservative premier, Ford would have preferred to simply divest the province of the corporation entirely.


It will not be hard for the Ontario government to gain a controlling interest in Hydro One, unless I am missing something? Is the stock price not down as of right now?

As far as attracting talent how would you judge that? This comes up quite a bit but of the couple of studies that i have read have been unable to show any correlation between executive qualification and corporate performance.


Offline pbi

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2018, 12:09:45 »

As far as attracting talent how would you judge that? This comes up quite a bit but of the couple of studies that i have read have been unable to show any correlation between executive qualification and corporate performance.

It might not be  that hard to get good people. Really, at the level of CEO and the Board, how much do they actually have to know about how an electricity system works?  They will have a COO, VPs and a bag of tech SMEs to advise them on that. IMHO they just need to understand that the people who pay their salaries expect that they will do something about hydro rates before it chokes the life out of businesses and beggars people who struggle to pay the monthly light bill.

To be fair to the new team coming in, they will probably inherit the mess of over a half-century of public ownership during which users probably didn't pay the actual market cost of anything. That, and the infrastructure situation: we have some quite new plants like the Darlington and Bruce nukes, but Pickering nuke is quite old, and there are a lot of very old hydro plants scattered all over the province, along with thousands of km of lines, hundreds of transformer yards and switches, and all of that.

I just can't see how it won't cost us all a big bunch of money in the long run, no matter which party is in power.
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Offline FJAG

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2018, 13:26:57 »
The following article from CNBC outlines the critical issues respecting CEOs pay.

Quote
Since 1978, and adjusted for inflation, American workers have seen an 11.2 percent increase in compensation. During that same period, CEO's have seen a 937 percent increase in earnings. That salary growth is even 70 percent faster than the rise in the stock market, according to the Economic Policy Institute.
. . .
"CEOs are getting more because of their power to set pay, not because they are more productive or have special talent or have more education," says the report. "Exorbitant CEO pay means that the fruits of economic growth are not going to ordinary workers, since the higher CEO pay does not reflect correspondingly higher output."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/22/heres-how-much-ceo-pay-has-increased-compared-to-yours-over-the-years.html

For years I've believed that as shareholders (both public and private) we've allowed ourselves to be manipulated by the executive leadership/management profession into believing that they are worth the exorbitant compensation that they are demanding. They aren't. It's time to readjust their expectations downward.

 :cheers:
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2018, 15:02:07 »
The following article from CNBC outlines the critical issues respecting CEOs pay.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/22/heres-how-much-ceo-pay-has-increased-compared-to-yours-over-the-years.html

For years I've believed that as shareholders (both public and private) we've allowed ourselves to be manipulated by the executive leadership/management profession into believing that they are worth the exorbitant compensation that they are demanding. They aren't. It's time to readjust their expectations downward.

 :cheers:

Agreed, and the rot is not confined to the corporate world.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2018, 16:31:18 »
Quote
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/ont-minister-criticized-for-saying-he-wore-bulletproof-vest-in-toronto-neighbourhood-1.4019099
An Ontario minister tasked with fighting racism is being criticized by his political opponents for a comment that NDP Leader Andrea Horwath calls racist.

The minister pointed out that he wore a bulletproof vest during the police ride-along.

"I went out to Jane and Finch, put on a bulletproof vest and spent 7 o’clock to 1 o’clock in the morning visiting sites that had previously had bullet-ridden people killed in the middle of the night," Tibollo said during question period at Queen’s Park on Wednesday.


Somebody get this man a white sheet.

Just kidding, NDP's weak *** effort to stay in the news.
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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2018, 16:33:56 »
I guess he was just using his white privilege to stay alive in a city where people shoot up playgrounds in broad daylight with illegal guns.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: New Ontario Government 2018
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2018, 16:54:10 »
I'm guessing it was a requirement to wear it for the ride along. Insurance rules.

Perhaps the dippers figure only military and police should have vests. Goes with their only military and police should have guns. Anyone else wearing a vest, NGOs, UN Observers, the Ontario Environmental SWAT team, etc are all racist.

Horvath is portraying her party as a bunch of screaming me me's. She's going to have everyone rolling their eyes and ignoring their chicken little speeches, even before the Legislature returns to normal sitting.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 16:59:06 by recceguy »
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.