Author Topic: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18  (Read 12615 times)

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2018, 16:04:43 »
US Stars and Stripes article.

https://www.stripes.com/news/canada-hopes-beards-will-boost-morale-draw-diverse-military-recruits-1.549502


To the envy of some U.S. troops, members of Canada’s military can now all wear beards, provided they can do better than peach fuzz but don’t go full mountain man.
The move to allow face fur, which took effect Tuesday, was made to give Canadian servicemembers more freedom in their appearances, the military said in a statement.
The new rules, which came after “extensive consultations” with the troops, are expected to boost morale and attract more recruits. They came as neighboring servicemembers to the south are pushing for more relaxed standards on facial hair.

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2018, 16:36:25 »
I'd say PMed Techs for the most part.  Maybe WFE Techs too?
MP have it as part of their PPE for opioid exposure, response to aircraft crashes etc.

Offline mariomike

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2018, 17:06:08 »
MP have it as part of their PPE for opioid exposure, response to aircraft crashes etc.

The N95 is a reasonable PPE for First Responders ( on Base, and off ), because they often do not know what they are dealing with.

Offline ballz

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2018, 20:00:23 »
The way I read it is if you attained DP1/OFP once, you can wear a beard therefore OT would be allowed to wear it.

I certainly believe that is the intent, that "new recruits" must shave until they've earned their stripes so to speak, but we all know how well some people do when it comes to achieving intent... see: BOOTFORGEN schmozzle.

You just know there will be some of the more silly folks insisting people who have been in the CAF for 10-20 years and have VOT'd or CFR'd shave their beard off.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2018, 23:37:16 »
Now that we've dealt with the beard issue, I'm looking forward to the reintroduction of the Queue, as per the Royal Welch Fusiliers, and addition of the flash on the back of our DEUs:

"How the Flash was retained during the First World War was unravelled in 1932, when (then) Lieutenant-Colonel EO Skaife met with the King at Buckingham Palace who explained how they had retained the Flash during the last war, '...[Senior Officers] said [the Flash] was too conspicuous. I told them that the enemy would never see the Flashes on the backs of the Royal Welch.'

http://www.jonathanhware.com/royal-welch-traditions.html

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2018, 00:37:44 »
Now that we've dealt with the beard issue, I'm looking forward to the reintroduction of the Queue, as per the Royal Welch Fusiliers, and addition of the flash on the back of our DEUs:

And really, a man-bun is just a bad pig-tail on the top of the head.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline ArmyDoc

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2018, 07:44:43 »
What is a N95? I have never heard of it, who in the CAF uses it?
N95 masks are commonly fit-tested to health services personnel, for use should there be an outbreak of respiratory illness (eg influenza). As pointed out, others may also be issued N95 masks like MPs. The key to the N95 is that it requires fit testing through the Fire Marshal (similar to other respirator PPE).

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2018, 08:27:35 »
That's right, but it says "UPON ATTAINMENT OF THEIR OPERATIONALLY FUNCTIONAL POINT (OFP) OR HAVING COMPLETED DEVELOPMENTAL PERIOD ONE, WHICHEVER COMES LAST" so what is "development period one?"

I have seen it referred to in a variety of ways and often, in career manager briefings, more so along a spectrum than with a hard and fast point where one goes from DP1 to DP2.

The DPs and OFP should be detailed in each individual Occupation Specification, shouldn't it?  It would contain the detail the NCMGS and Officer equivalent do not specify.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2018, 09:20:48 »
The key to the N95 is that it requires fit testing through the Fire Marshal (similar to other respirator PPE).

If you don't mind me asking, how often is that done?

eg: Annually. Or, more frequently if weight fluctuates or dental alterations occur.

Is there a Medical Directive as to when the N95 respirator is to be worn in the pre-hospital environment?

eg: During active airway management.

Contact with body fluids.

Suspected communicable illness.



   
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 10:44:57 by mariomike »

Offline ArmyDoc

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2018, 10:57:30 »
I suspect that D Med Pol or FHP have put out direction on N95 use, as well as fit testing, but I don’t have them handy.

Offline mariomike

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2018, 12:04:18 »
I suspect that D Med Pol or FHP have put out direction on N95 use, as well as fit testing, but I don’t have them handy.

It will be interesting to read what D Med Pol or FHP have to say regarding facial hair and the N95. 

N95 Respirator Use
Facial Hair
http://www.lhsc.on.ca/About_Us/LHSC/Programs_Services/FacialHairPosterRev1_1.pdf
"User must be clean shaven where the respirator seals to the skin of the face or neck."






« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:44:32 by mariomike »

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2018, 11:30:49 »
It will be interesting to read what D Med Pol or FHP have to say regarding facial hair and the N95. 

N95 Respirator Use
Facial Hair
http://www.lhsc.on.ca/About_Us/LHSC/Programs_Services/FacialHairPosterRev1_1.pdf
"User must be clean shaven where the respirator seals to the skin of the face or neck."

For the N95 masks, are you talking about the mouth/nose ones? There are versions that look like fancy dust masks, and others with cartridges. I have the cartridge ones with chemical filters and they don't really get a perfect seal regardless (but they do significantly cut back the fumes).

Offline mariomike

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2018, 12:13:03 »
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 13:39:36 by mariomike »

Offline ballz

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2018, 15:02:15 »
They probably get a good enough seal for the gas hut where the particles are fairly big, there are a lot of nasty agents out there that are a lot smaller particle size than CS gas. Just something to consider.

The gas mask thing is very interesting to me. People talk about using vaseline... well that's fine and dandy for gas huts but probably not applicable when operating in a CBRN environment.

Perhaps this will spur more thought / technology / ingenuity being put into the design of gas masks. Most people know the MND had patented a device* to allow a gas mask to work with a beard, although seeing the patent I'm not sure how well it would work. Also, considering how crappy it is to wear your CBRN kit for long periods of time, I'm not sure how feasible that device is.

At this point in time, with our current equipment, shaving still seems like the safest bet in a CBRN environment.

*It's essentially a hood that covers your face area and the gas mask can seal to the hood instead of your beard.
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Offline Simian Turner

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2018, 22:38:29 »
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=a-ga-135-001-aa-001-chapter-8-post-occurrence-activities/hnfpma84

e. Disposable Industrial Dust Mask (referred to as N95 mask). When this light, comfortable industrial dust mask is properly fitted to the face it allows very little unfiltered air to be inhaled. It provides adequate protection from particulate hazards such as composite fibres, lead oxide dust, depleted uranium dust and asbestos. The N95 mask requires a formal biennial fitting which can be arranged through Base Fire Halls or their equivalents. Instructions on use will be provided at the time of fitment.

f. Reusable Half Face Piece Respirator. The half face mask provides filtering protection against particulates, many gases and vapours (depending on which filter is used). The half face mask is to be used instead of the N95 mask when the concentration of airborne contaminants is higher or if there are any concerns about the level of protection offered by the disposable industrial dust mask. The half face piece respirator is not a self contained breathing apparatus and should not be used when unknown fumes are present, ambient oxygen supply is short, or if there are substances present for which the filter was not designed. This mask requires a formal biennial fitting which can be arranged through Base Fire Halls or their equivalents. Instructions on use, storage and cleaning will be provided at the time of fitment. Due to current allotment levels, only designated FS personnel will be assigned a half face piece. Designation will be determined and subsequently tracked by the appropriate WFSO or UFSO.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2018, 22:46:32 »
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=a-ga-135-001-aa-001-chapter-8-post-occurrence-activities/hnfpma84

e. Disposable Industrial Dust Mask (referred to as N95 mask). When this light, comfortable industrial dust mask is properly fitted to the face it allows very little unfiltered air to be inhaled. It provides adequate protection from particulate hazards such as composite fibres, lead oxide dust, depleted uranium dust and asbestos. The N95 mask requires a formal biennial fitting which can be arranged through Base Fire Halls or their equivalents. Instructions on use will be provided at the time of fitment.

See also, Reply #622.

 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 08:55:14 by mariomike »

Online FSTO

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2018, 09:35:38 »
I was at the Als vs Riders game yesterday. It was the military appreciation game and there was a lot of people there who wear relish coloured pajamas that needed a shave!!! :tsktsk:


 ;)

Offline kratz

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2018, 09:38:13 »
5 days since the release of the CANFORGEN and the process for local approval is in place, for Halifax.
With this well thought out message, I don't see any harm in the caution for a few days, in order to correctly implement
the intent of the CDS.

Quote

Subject: CFB Halifax/MARLANT Beard Policy

Ref:  A.  CANFORGEN 158/18 CMP 078/18 251819Z SEP 18
B. A-DH-265-000/AG-001 Canadian Forces Dress Instructions, Chap 2

Alcon,

With the release of ref, all members of the CAF may now grow a beard at their own volition and are not required to submit a memo to their Chain of Command to cease shaving. There is now no minimum length requirement to a beard. 

Beards, when grown, shall conform to the following standards:
a.       It shall be worn with a moustache;
b.      It shall be neatly trimmed, especially at the lower neck and cheekbones, and
c.       It shall not exceed two centimeters in bulk.

CAF personnel desiring to cease shaving shall inform their Chain of Command of their intent to do so. This is not to seek permission, however, it is to ensure that a minimum 30 day period is followed in order for the Commanding Officer or their delegate (normally unit Coxn/CPO1/CWO) to review the beard and direct that the beard be removed if the attempt does not produce a satisfactory outcome. Beards, when grown, are to present a positive appearance; therefore patchy, exaggerated and other likewise unsightly beards may be ordered removed. When so ordered, this does not preclude a CAF member from making subsequent attempts.

Personnel employed at units where the growing of a beard is restricted under RCN policy (i.e HMC Ships) are not permitted to cease shaving in accordance with Ref A para 3.

Beard styles shall conform to ref B, therefore, the following styles are approved for growing:
a.       Short Stubble
b.      Medium Stubble
c.       Long Stubble
d.      Full Beard

 All other beard styles present an exaggerated appearance and are not appropriate for presenting a professional uniformed force; and are therefore not approved.

Request this direction be disseminated within your respective lines of operation.

Questions may be directed to the undersigned.

Yours aye,

Funny thing is, members will continue to have to shave, in order to shape their beard and clean the areas as required by these policies.

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Offline theprivate

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2018, 10:20:57 »
One of the navy guys I work with is re-doing his CBRN. Being navy, of course he has a beard. This monday, however, he came is with it trimmed down to less than a cm. Apparently to get fitted for a mask, you have to be clean shaven, and in order to get gassed, you have to have your beard super short.
Also, during basic we had a guy on a beard chit who did CBRN in Farnham with a trimmed beard.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2018, 08:05:12 »
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline CanadianTire

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2018, 15:11:17 »
Well, a few of us showed up for training on Wednesday with a week-ish worth of growth to no backlash. In fact, most of the senior NCOs were more than happy to tell us what needs to be done to keep our fledgling beards within the regulations.
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2018, 17:27:19 »
Lots of RSMs are trying to make BEARDFORGEN their own and still demand people to submit memos to grow a beard, and they can't shave every third day.

The CAFCWO and the CCPO caught wind and sent out a very scathing clarifying email to all of the Sergeants-Major across the service:

Quote

 * Not required to submit a memo to their Chain of Command to cease shaving.
* Not required to advise their Chain of Command in any way that they are going to grow a beard.
* May cease shaving at any time, as so desired by the member.
* May resume shaving at any time, as so desired by the member. If the member wishes to grow their beard on the weekend and show up Monday with it, then shave on Tues, the start again Wednesday, then shave on Thurs, they may do so at their own discretion.
* No requirement for a formal process to cease shaving (meaning no 30 day inspections).
* There is no minimum length.
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Offline dangerboy

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2018, 17:30:03 »
Lots of RSMs are trying to make BEARDFORGEN their own and still demand people to submit memos to grow a beard, and they can't shave every third day.

The CAFCWO and the CCPO caught wind and sent out a very scathing clarifying email to all of the Sergeants-Major across the service:

Lets see how well this info gets passed down, once people recover from their heart attacks and reverse some really silly directions that have been issued. Or they will ignore this.
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Offline standingdown

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2018, 17:35:36 »
I've always thought that if stuff flew in 1 CMBG, it was good enough for the rest of us.  ;D

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2018, 17:50:17 »
The CWOs/CPO1s who insist on passing on their own personal dress-related ‘command orders’ to support their pet peeves do neither themselves, nor those in the respective organizations any favours.  Also not helping this are Commanders who abrogate their own command responsibilities on such issues, and tacitly permit the ‘Chiefs’ to make up their own rules.  Best is when Chiefs support the Command Team concept, and assist by leveraging their experience and leadership in coordinative supportive of higher orders and policies.

:2c:

Regards
G2G