Author Topic: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18  (Read 42529 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #225 on: October 23, 2019, 15:30:21 »
I don't think anyone said the ASM was off in left field making decisions all on his own, just because we don't see the inner workings of a senior command team doesn't mean its not happening.  In my experience, CWO at any level of command are given the delegated authority by their CO/Comd to enforce dress policy, it's still the commanders policy and direction, but he expects the CWO to deliver it, and any ramifications of people not following the Comd direction

First point...every NCM above the rank of Pte/Avr/OS is delegated authority to enforce dress and all other reg's and policy via the QR & Os.  It's an expectation of duty; the issue is many are NOT doing it these days.


Maybe it is time to refer to the BEARDFORGEN....(caps are from a cut/paste from Pg 1 of this thread, not mine).  Can the CCA take away what the CDS authorizes? 

3.EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS AUTHORIZED FOR ALL CAF MEMBERS UPON ATTAINMENT OF THEIR OPERATIONALLY FUNCTIONAL POINT (OFP) OR HAVING COMPLETED DEVELOPMENTAL PERIOD ONE, WHICHEVER COMES LAST. HOWEVER, COMMANDERS OF COMMANDS, TASK FORCE COMMANDERS AND COMMANDING OFFICERS RETAIN THE RIGHT TO ORDER RESTRICTIONS ON THE WEARING OF A BEARD TO MEET SAFETY AND OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS.  THIS INCLUDES RESTRICTIONS PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS AND TRAINING WHERE, IN A CHEMICAL BIOLOGICAL RADIOLOGICAL NUCLEAR (CBRN) ENVIRONMENT OR CBRN TRAINING ENVIRONMENT, A BEARD CAN BE ORDERED TO BE REMOVED TO ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION ON OPERATIONS OR TRAINING. SUCH RESTRICTIONS WILL BE AS TEMPORARY AS FEASIBLE (E.G. AS LONG AS THE ENTIRE DURATION OF AN OPERATIONAL TOUR IN A CBRN ENVIRONMENT OR AS SHORT AS A SINGLE TRAINING DAY FOR CBRN OPERATIONS). WHERE CURRENT CAF EQUIPMENT CAPABILITIES CANNOT ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION OR THE ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY EMPLOY SAFETY SYSTEMS WHILE WEARING A BEARD, BEARD RESTRICTIONS FOR MEMBERS USING THAT EQUIPMENT FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY REASONS MAY BE PUT IN PLACE BY A COMMANDING OFFICER

Seems like the real solution is to deal with the offenders, which is actually within their (anyone's) left/right of arcs.  Lazy leadership = punishing everyone.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 15:49:51 by Eye In The Sky »

Offline Tcm621

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #226 on: October 24, 2019, 00:33:11 »
I like my beard, all 0.25 cms of it but they need to be policed. I saw a Capt, with a scraggly beard, long boarding through the base the other day and my first thought was we were being invaded by hipsters. For 90% of the terrible beards I see, 5 minutes of grooming twice a week would make all the difference.


Offline kev994

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #227 on: October 24, 2019, 10:11:31 »
First point...every NCM above the rank of Pte/Avr/OS is delegated authority to enforce dress and all other reg's and policy via the QR & Os.  It's an expectation of duty; the issue is many are NOT doing it these days.


Maybe it is time to refer to the BEARDFORGEN....(caps are from a cut/paste from Pg 1 of this thread, not mine).  Can the CCA take away what the CDS authorizes? 

3.EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS AUTHORIZED FOR ALL CAF MEMBERS UPON ATTAINMENT OF THEIR OPERATIONALLY FUNCTIONAL POINT (OFP) OR HAVING COMPLETED DEVELOPMENTAL PERIOD ONE, WHICHEVER COMES LAST. HOWEVER, COMMANDERS OF COMMANDS, TASK FORCE COMMANDERS AND COMMANDING OFFICERS RETAIN THE RIGHT TO ORDER RESTRICTIONS ON THE WEARING OF A BEARD TO MEET SAFETY AND OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS.  THIS INCLUDES RESTRICTIONS PERTAINING TO OPERATIONS AND TRAINING WHERE, IN A CHEMICAL BIOLOGICAL RADIOLOGICAL NUCLEAR (CBRN) ENVIRONMENT OR CBRN TRAINING ENVIRONMENT, A BEARD CAN BE ORDERED TO BE REMOVED TO ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION ON OPERATIONS OR TRAINING. SUCH RESTRICTIONS WILL BE AS TEMPORARY AS FEASIBLE (E.G. AS LONG AS THE ENTIRE DURATION OF AN OPERATIONAL TOUR IN A CBRN ENVIRONMENT OR AS SHORT AS A SINGLE TRAINING DAY FOR CBRN OPERATIONS). WHERE CURRENT CAF EQUIPMENT CAPABILITIES CANNOT ENSURE FORCE PROTECTION OR THE ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY EMPLOY SAFETY SYSTEMS WHILE WEARING A BEARD, BEARD RESTRICTIONS FOR MEMBERS USING THAT EQUIPMENT FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY REASONS MAY BE PUT IN PLACE BY A COMMANDING OFFICER

Seems like the real solution is to deal with the offenders, which is actually within their (anyone's) left/right of arcs.  Lazy leadership = punishing everyone.
I’m not sure what you are getting at, it says those pers can order you to shave it for safety reasons and only so long as that safety concern persists, it doesn’t say anything about deciding they don’t like the policy.

Offline CountDC

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #228 on: October 24, 2019, 10:32:26 »
If you have not questioned him about the beard then how do you know there isn't a reason for it? Some of those long shaggy beards are policed and exist for a reason, I have known 2 that were approved for valid reasons.  One was an MWO and the other was a Capt, I was present when the RSM addressed the Capt about his beard.

It is right that everyone should be aware and questioning when something doesn't seem right.  Understand that some may not be comfortable with addressing the matter when the person is a higher rank but that shouldn't stop them from bringing it to the attention of others that could address it.  A sideways method that can be used is a question - Sir, is that beard the new standard?
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

QR&O's

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #229 on: October 24, 2019, 18:15:22 »
I’m not sure what you are getting at, it says those pers can order you to shave it for safety reasons and only so long as that safety concern persists, it doesn’t say anything about deciding they don’t like the policy.

That is my point.   :nod:
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 18:17:57 by Eye In The Sky »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #230 on: October 24, 2019, 18:17:01 »
If you have not questioned him about the beard then how do you know there isn't a reason for it? Some of those long shaggy beards are policed and exist for a reason, I have known 2 that were approved for valid reasons.  One was an MWO and the other was a Capt, I was present when the RSM addressed the Capt about his beard.

IMO...that is the Adjt's (or equiv) job....


Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #231 on: October 24, 2019, 19:23:54 »
IMO...that is the Adjt's (or equiv) job....

Seems there are many folks who don't know what or who their arcs are these days.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #232 on: October 25, 2019, 16:50:15 »
Agreed.

I have known 2 that were approved for valid reasons.  One was an MWO and the other was a Capt, I was present when the RSM addressed the Capt about his beard.

And then there is this aspect...I'm not seeing a 'necessary for the preservation of discipline' aspect, personally. 

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/queens-regulations-orders/vol-1-administration/ch-19-conduct-discipline.html#cha-019-13

Offline humblesoldier

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Beard for religious reasons
« Reply #233 on: February 01, 2020, 10:12:00 »
Can a practicing muslim keep his beard in the caf ? and even through training ? will a person be forced to shave it ?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18
« Reply #234 on: February 01, 2020, 12:51:00 »
The current policy is the person would have to shave it until they're trained in the military occupation.  There is no religious accommodations for Muslims regarding beards.

Having said that, I know of one member who is awaiting training (ie - not trained yet) who had an accommodation approved for a religious reason (practicing a Norse faith, or something along that line).  The mbr requested permission to keep his beard, it was reviewed and approved by the CofC.  It has to be reviewed periodically (12 months IIRC) to ensure mbr is still practicing that faith/religion.