Author Topic: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1  (Read 1093 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 218,797
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,991
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2018, 13:31:06 »
And cue the guardhouse lawyers in 3....2....1....
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline kratz

    Laughter drives the sun.

  • Float, Move, Fight
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 255,763
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,197
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2018, 13:39:27 »
With the official policy out now, some questions remain:

- How are DND civilians governed, once this takes effect? (already asked earlier)
- How will CFHA regulate the RHUs, or Base singles quarters smoke pits?
- Mess Dinners are a duty, according to the CANFORGEN, smoking up would not be allowed.
- How will other nations' forces training, working in Canada be governed regarding legalized cannabis?
Quote from: Pipe *General Call*
"Tanning Stations on the flight deck"


Remember, this site is unofficial and privately owned. The site benefits from the presence of current members willing to answer questions.

Offline Old EO Tech

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 9,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 408
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2018, 14:31:28 »
Probably this in the start;

Application: This DAOD is an order that applies to officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF members) and a directive that applies to employees of the Department of National Defence (DND employees) who supervise CAF members.

This is pretty typical for civilian managers; really no different than military that supervise civilians following the collective agreements, annual evals, etc.  I think the big thing here would be the reporting.

They probably want to do some education as well with this. Stuff like edibles takes hours to kick in, and affect will vary wildly.  It would be easy enough for someone to think they have 12 or 16 hours and still be messed up, so will probably have a number of people run into that kind of thing.  No different than drinking heavily and still being drunk when you wake up, but people will have less experience with it.

Generally seems pretty reasonable though; looks like it's basically 8 hours from bottle to throttle the same as alcohol, with some caveats for anyone doing various specific things.  Like how it was tied to the duties and not a qualification, so shows enough common sense that someone sitting in a desk job (like all the NDHQ pilots) won't have somewhat excessive restrictions, but anyone going to the range would have a longer period (for example) to ensure they are sober.  I actually assumed they would go more 'reefer madness' instead of treat people like adults so that was refreshing.  Maybe that will last until there is an incident that makes the paper...

Yes Pete is correct that is what I was referring too

Offline Xylric

  • Member
  • ****
  • 4,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 126
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2018, 20:14:52 »
Well, I've got absolutely no intention of ever touching Cannabis due to the fact that it does not have the typical effect on my physiology, so whatever happens, I'm going to be completely clean in perpetuity.

Offline DueFall

  • Guest
  • *
  • -110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2018, 23:20:43 »
My partner and I are having a debate about the recruiting policy.

Me coming from a legal background, I have reservations about whether they will alter the recruitment policy for applicants with closed files due to marijuana use within the last year. My partner, for instance, is in that boat.

I said that he used it while it was illegal, and thus the consequence remains so. But he predicts that once marijuana is legalized, he'll be able to contact the recruiting centre and re-open his application (he says he doesn't need to re-apply, which I thought he would). I realize that this is pure speculation for the time-being. And to clarify - he has not smoked since the same date he provided when doing his CFAT/TSD and has no intention of doing so again, regardless of updated policies.

What are your speculations on the topic of recruiting and the potential addendum? Sorry if I wasn't particularly clear - I was discussing applicants who are currently waiting to re-apply due to their file being closed for marijuana consumption within the year.

Offline Simian Turner

    is a veteran who enjoys oddities!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 48,755
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,628
  • Do the right thing; do the thing right!
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2018, 23:42:28 »
What are your speculations on the topic of recruiting and the potential addendum? Sorry if I wasn't particularly clear - I was discussing applicants who are currently waiting to re-apply due to their file being closed for marijuana consumption within the year.

My understanding is that new applicants are not currently being asked about cannabis consumption.  So rather than speculating, I would contact the nearest recruiting centre now to see what they have to say!  I don't think waiting until it is legalized is the only option.
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 95,785
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,012
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2018, 06:03:44 »
My partner and I are having a debate about the recruiting policy.

Me coming from a legal background, I have reservations about whether they will alter the recruitment policy for applicants with closed files due to marijuana use within the last year. My partner, for instance, is in that boat.

I said that he used it while it was illegal, and thus the consequence remains so. But he predicts that once marijuana is legalized, he'll be able to contact the recruiting centre and re-open his application (he says he doesn't need to re-apply, which I thought he would). I realize that this is pure speculation for the time-being. And to clarify - he has not smoked since the same date he provided when doing his CFAT/TSD and has no intention of doing so again, regardless of updated policies.

What are your speculations on the topic of recruiting and the potential addendum? Sorry if I wasn't particularly clear - I was discussing applicants who are currently waiting to re-apply due to their file being closed for marijuana consumption within the year.


So let me start by saying that I am not a recruiter and haven’t been one for quite some time.  On this though, past drug use is not necessarily a show stopper.  What can be though is frequency and dépendance.  Same as with any legal or illegal substance.  If you are considered a risk due to high alcohol or caffeine intake you could also be turned down.  It is unlikely that the recruiting system needs to change much or anything as isn’t a security/criminal issue and is more of a medical/health issue.
Optio

Offline robjvan

  • Guest
  • *
  • 120
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 11:14:33 by robjvan »
Recruiting Centre: Calgary
Regular/ Reserve: Regular
Officer/NCM: NCM
Trade choice: Drafting & Survey Technician
Second choice: Meteorological Technician
Third choice: Aerospace Telecommunication and Information Systems Technician
Applied: SOON

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 129,355
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,011
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2018, 12:41:46 »
Has DND and Canex considered the ramifications? Will Doritos now be kept as war stocks to ensure we don't run out at a critical time? On our next deployment will Tim Hortons carry a line of THC products? Will the Cannex carry enough snacks? 

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 272,121
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,385
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2018, 02:19:47 »
Suppose bases will have to construct  green pits and designated areas outside of shacks for people to smoke pot in, just like smoking pits right?
Or would it be co located with smoking areas?
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Eagle Eye View

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 16,605
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 351
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2018, 07:32:43 »
It depends on which province the base is located. For example in Winnipeg they are looking at building separate smoking area for cannabis consumers.
Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Haggis

  • "There ain't no hat badge on a helmet!"
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 56,270
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,552
  • "Oh, what a glorious sight, Warm-reekin, rich!"
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2018, 17:45:30 »
Has DND and Canex considered the ramifications? Will Doritos now be kept as war stocks to ensure we don't run out at a critical time?

Yes. And Doritos will now be included in all IMPs and boxed lunches

On our next deployment will Tim Hortons carry a line of THC products?

No.  The policy forbids use and /or possession while deployed outside of Canada
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline theprivate

  • Guest
  • *
  • 425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15
  • Isn't being the only Pte in your squadron great?
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2018, 12:01:47 »
To be honest, I'm not excited to have guys I work with smoking pot. What I've seen in the past is that it's turned my smart friends stupid. I understand why the big brass was put under pressure to create these policies... But I don't think they should have. It seems almost exactly the way they treat alcohol, but that's apples to oranges.
THC stays in your system way longer and his a ton of lasting effects. It's really frustrating to me that people who use it at all are allowed in the CAF.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 489,400
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,910
    • The job.
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2018, 12:22:52 »
; looks like it's basically 8 hours from bottle to throttle the same as alcohol,

It seems almost exactly the way they treat alcohol,

Not exactly,

Like driving,

"Period of prohibition

Cannabis consumption during the 24 hours before any known or expected performance of …

•operation of a wheeled or tracked vehicle, or mobile support equipment;"
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 12:26:08 by mariomike »

Offline Big Spoon

  • New Member
  • **
  • 2,975
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 34
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2018, 12:27:42 »
Ultimately, whether we agree or disagree it is our responsibility to follow the direction that has been provided to us. I for one will not be partaking but that is a personal choice.

Offline Scott

    - apparently an antagonist.

  • Likes fire and loud noises.
  • Chief of Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 198,760
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,895
  • El Scorcho Diablo
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2018, 12:34:48 »
To be honest, I'm not excited to have guys I work with smoking pot. What I've seen in the past is that it's turned my smart friends stupid. I understand why the big brass was put under pressure to create these policies... But I don't think they should have. It seems almost exactly the way they treat alcohol, but that's apples to oranges.
THC stays in your system way longer and his a ton of lasting effects. It's really frustrating to me that people who use it at all are allowed in the CAF.

I've got news: you've already worked with people who smoke pot and you didn't even know it. That likely won't change too much after legalization.
Be nice for no reason.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 163,540
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,808
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2018, 01:02:07 »
I've got news: you've already worked with people who smoke pot and you didn't even know it. That likely won't change too much after legalization.

Yep.  I don't think all of a sudden everyone will start smoking up.  If anything, more people are happy about BEARDFORGEN or BOOTFORGEN.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 211,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,487
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2018, 09:28:29 »
Yep.  I don't think all of a sudden everyone will start smoking up.  If anything, more people are happy about BEARDFORGEN or BOOTFORGEN.

I've not heard one maintainer talk about being able to use the special lettuce, but they are pretty happy about the beard changes.

Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline Navy_Pete

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 17,190
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 639
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2018, 10:10:15 »
I've not heard one maintainer talk about being able to use the special lettuce, but they are pretty happy about the beard changes.

I think that's probably the case for most people; military is generally pretty conservative.

Personally just like to know that we could, if we wanted to, so appreciate it treating us like adults, but not going to suddenly turn into Tommy Chong.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 163,540
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,808
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2018, 14:00:21 »
I think that's probably the case for most people; military is generally pretty conservative.

Personally just like to know that we could, if we wanted to, so appreciate it treating us like adults, but not going to suddenly turn into Tommy Chong.

Wait, so my idea of starting up a base food truck selling only Doritos *isn't* going to work?! 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 211,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,487
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2018, 19:03:33 »
If you park it outside NDHQ... :whistle:
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline garb811

  • MP/MPO Question Answerer
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 71,535
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,413
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2018, 19:59:44 »
I think what people might be seeing is a cautious approach by individuals who are going to wait and see how certain people in their chains of command react to this, prior to actually becoming more public about their use.

I've had the misfortune of working in a unit with a teetotaler in a key position and conversations about going out to party, or even for a quick beer after work, quickly dried up as it was easier than having to sit and listen to a sermon about the evils of alcohol if that individual happened to overhear it.

Offline dapaterson

    Mostly Harmless.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 432,745
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,150
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2018, 20:07:23 »
I've had the misfortune of working in a unit with a teetotaler in a key position and conversations about going out to party, or even for a quick beer after work, quickly dried up as it was easier than having to sit and listen to a sermon about the evils of alcohol if that individual happened to overhear it.

Something like this, I assume.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-WbYZLdxLA&t=16s
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline kratz

    Laughter drives the sun.

  • Float, Move, Fight
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 255,763
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,197
Re: CAF Cannabis Use 2018- DAOD 9004-1
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2018, 16:45:57 »
Reference: DAOD 2007-2, Use of Cannabis by DND Employees

The Maple Leaf magazine is reporting the new DAOD is published on the Use of Cannabis by civilian DND Employees. The policy appears similar to the CAF cannabis policy.
Quote from: Pipe *General Call*
"Tanning Stations on the flight deck"


Remember, this site is unofficial and privately owned. The site benefits from the presence of current members willing to answer questions.